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Dealer Service ?????

 
Old 10-02-2018, 05:34 PM
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GLK250 2014
Dealer Service ?????

I have had prepaid service until now. Next month I will need an A service. So, was just going through records:

Re Adblue, I checked the amount added at each service:

0-11531 km (11531 km) 5L of part 1.89L part 000-583-01-07
11531-19959 km (8428 km) 9L of part REC55-129AIROT AIR 1 DEF 208L or 55USG------72
19959-28980 km (9021 km) 4L of part REC55-129AIROT AIR 1 DEF 208l OR 55USG------72
28980-41070 km ( 12090) 16L of part REC55-129AIROT AIR 1 DEF 208l OR 55USG------72
41070-50150 km (9080) 11L of DEF needed to fill (on DIY service)

Doesn't seem consistent.. And why 16L at last service? (over 4 gallons. They must have drained the tank!)
Looking at it again, the 4L seems to be the outlier. Maybe they just didn't fill it.

Lines in green added 10/11/2018

Last edited by 107123210; 11-10-2018 at 09:33 AM. Reason: editing error :(
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Old 10-02-2018, 09:55 PM
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Mobil 1 X1 ESP 0w30 is the right oil for your car.

don't use anything else
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Old 10-03-2018, 08:57 AM
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I can't explain the adblue.

The oil that they used is concerning. Look in your manual and you will see that your diesel is supposed to use 229.51 spec oil which was later superseded by 229.52. 229.5 oil is for gas engines so it looks like they screwed up and used the wrong oil on two or maybe three oil changes. The 229.51 (and 229.52) has additives to reduce ash and buildup that can harm your emissions systems.

Why did they change the oil types used? Because the first three oil change monkeys used the wrong oil and the last guy actually paid attention to what your engine required.

If you had caught this at the first instance you might have a case against the dealer for another oil change or maybe an extended warranty, but since you are only now paying attention to their screw ups you are likely on your own.

As for mobil1 vs other oil, that is a subjective argument. Some people will argue about brands until blue in the face, but any 229.52 oil will be a full synthetic meeting the MB requirements for your diesel engine.
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Old 10-03-2018, 09:10 AM
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The DEF tank holds 7.5 gallons, so "over 4 gallons" would be within the norm for that mileage interval. Don't sweat it, you can buy DEF in big jugs and top off the tank in the trunk yourself. Just be careful not to spill any.

As for oil: the 229.5 spec is the wrong oil to use, so that 5w40 bulk oil the dealer used for over 40km wasn't... optimal let's say. Did it cause any engine damage? Unlikely, since MB oil specs 229.51 and 229.52 for Bluetec are designed more with the protection of the emissions system components in mind than with the actual engine moving parts. As long as the oil can hold soot in suspension, it'll be fine. You may have noticed more frequent DPF regens on the improper oil (or maybe not). Plus if anything does go wrong, you have documentation that they used the wrong oil for much of the car's early life. That should protect you.

Important to note that this wrong spec (as far as Bluetecs go) was used from when your truck was new in 2014 to 2017, so I would keep an eye open for DPF-related issues (there are many you can read about, a simple search will reveal them).

The correct spec, irrespective of brand, for our Bluetecs when they came out was 229.51. This has recently been updated to 229.52. You can use any brand you like as long as it is approved for either spec. They will be found mostly in 5w30 weight and 0w30, use whichever you prefer for your climate. For Canukistan, I'd advise 0w30. I'm currently using 229.52 oil but you can find many 229.51 oils which are perfectly suitable for this engine and emissions system.
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Old 10-03-2018, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by formerjeepguy View Post
I can't explain the adblue.

The oil that they used is concerning. Look in your manual and you will see that your diesel is supposed to use 229.51 spec oil which was later superseded by 229.52. 229.5 oil is for gas engines so it looks like they screwed up and used the wrong oil on two or maybe three oil changes. The 229.51 (and 229.52) has additives to reduce ash and buildup that can harm your emissions systems.

Why did they change the oil types used? Because the first three oil change monkeys used the wrong oil and the last guy actually paid attention to what your engine required.

If you had caught this at the first instance you might have a case against the dealer for another oil change or maybe an extended warranty, but since you are only now paying attention to their screw ups you are likely on your own.

As for mobil1 vs other oil, that is a subjective argument. Some people will argue about brands until blue in the face, but any 229.52 oil will be a full synthetic meeting the MB requirements for your diesel engine.
Agree with last sentence. I use Mobil 1 on my other cars, but sometimes also use Castrol and other makes with same MB approval. The GLK250 has received whatever type of oil MBCanada dealers use. Mostly their own bulk brand, I believe. They say they changed oils from 229.51 to lower ash 229.52 for diesel cars with DPFs and a new Pennzoil oil was introduced specifically for the AMG built engines. I have gone back and asked again about the 229.5.

My car is still under warranty. (I bought MBCanada extended warranty at time of purchase). It has one more year of full coverage plus another year of limited coverage. I asked dealer about the oil used in first three services - Service manager seemed to think it was 229.51, but invoices say 229.5. I would be most interested if other owners (especially in Canada) could check their dealer service invoices and advise what they say exactly for type of oil used. Mine say SHE5000089010T MB SYN 229.5 5W-40-BULK-A03Q and then later SHE5500399960T MB PCEO 0W30 (229.52) -12*1L-A25 (anyone have any MB data to translate those part numbers?)

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Old 10-03-2018, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by andreigbs View Post
The DEF tank holds 7.5 gallons, so "over 4 gallons" would be within the norm for that mileage interval. Don't sweat it, you can buy DEF in big jugs and top off the tank in the trunk yourself. Just be careful not to spill any.
What I was questioning, was why at annual service, car sometimes needed only 4L or 5L, but at other 9L or 16L for not much difference in miles driven.
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Old 10-03-2018, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by 107123210 View Post
What I was questioning, was why at annual service, car sometimes needed only 4L or 5L, but at other 9L or 16L for not much difference in miles driven.
Easy: varying driving/operating conditions means regen cycles may be needed more/less often. The regens are not on a hard mileage counter (as in a regen every 300 miles), it depends on the ash load and pressures constantly being monitored.

Different types of driving styles/commutes result in varying distances when a regen (and DEF) is needed.

The simplest analogy I can think of is how often one tops off windshield washer fluid: it depends.

Service manager seemed to think it was 229.51, but invoices say 229.5
The proof is on the invoices, not what a service mgr or tech may think. What's written down is official. Think of it this way: they could have been using the right oil but invoicing it incorrectly, in which case you should still be covered if something happens. At this point, you have written documentation that they've been using the wrong spec oil for at least 3 years in your Bluetec. This is one of the many reasons why I loathe stealerships.

Last edited by andreigbs; 10-03-2018 at 03:45 PM.
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Old 10-03-2018, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by andreigbs View Post
Easy: varying driving/operating conditions means regen cycles may be needed more/less often. The regens are not on a hard mileage counter (as in a regen every 300 miles), it depends on the ash load and pressures constantly being monitored.

Different types of driving styles/commutes result in varying distances when a regen (and DEF) is needed.
The car has always been used for 95% highway use, so regeneration should have occurred during normal driving and not have varied over our years of ownership.

Is more DEF be used during regeneration? I thought regeneration was done by enriching mixture so as to burn soot off DPF. I suppose that if that produced more NOx, then more DEF might be used. But difference between 2014 and 2017 was 4X for approx same mileage and type of driving.

Not a big deal, it was just an observation. Dealer might have had to drain DEF in 2017. They sometimes do stuff to upgrade system without us even knowing.. One advantage of using dealer is that they do know of and implement any MB updates.
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Old 10-05-2018, 11:02 AM
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From my limited knowledge of the DPF and regen process, the DPF never gets sparkling clean during a regen. So, over time and subsequent regens, there may be build-up of soot and ash that doesn't get removed. This may cause longer regens or more DEF to be used as the vehicle ages. It may also cause cracked or damaged DPFs that need to be replaced.

Also based on limited knowledge, I believe DEF is only used during regens. Yes, during a regen cycle there is more fuel injected to increase exhaust temps and burn off the soot, but the regen cycle also needs the DEF additive to neutralize the toxic compounds.

Agreed, not a big deal as long as it's working! The only time I will go to the dealer is when I know there is a service bulletin or update that needs to be done, or for warranty work. Other than that, I handle things myself.
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Old 10-05-2018, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by andreigbs View Post
Also based on limited knowledge, I believe DEF is only used during regens. Yes, during a regen cycle there is more fuel injected to increase exhaust temps and burn off the soot, but the regen cycle also needs the DEF additive to neutralize the toxic compounds..
It doesn't work quite like that. The DEF is always needed and it produces the ammonia that reacts with NOX in the SCR catalyst (final stage of treatment) DEF is injected downstream of the DPF. The amount injected is probably determined by the difference in readings of the upstream and downstream NOx sensors. During regeneration, NOx may go up, although amount in exhaust is usually higher when mixtures are lean, not rich. Or at least that is the way I understood it. I have a technical description somewhere - As a chemical engineer, I was a bit alarmed to find that our cars have a miniature chemical processing plant built in!

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Old 10-05-2018, 12:02 PM
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I have a Bluetec brochure detailing the aftertreatment and all that somewhere too, just was lazy to look for it

It's definitely complicated, in fact probably overly so. Too many things that can (and often do) go wrong, to the tune of possibly thousands of $ if you're out of warranty. I get why it didn't sell too well, and why many who own Bluetecs may not be happy about it now.

C'est la vie...

Fingers crossed, knocking on wood while truckin' along.
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Old 10-05-2018, 01:00 PM
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I just started to look at alternatives. Checked with MB (GLC), Toyota *Highlander) and Subaru. (Outback). For acceptable specs, looks like I would have to spend about C$21k after trade in and discounts on the Japanese cars. At under 50k km and over 2 yrs of warranty left, the trade values are low ($21-22K). The GLC with far less options would cost $10+k more. I guess GLK was my last Benz (unless I find another late 80s or early 90s diesel in really good shape!

Now weighing potential cost of repairs and additional depreciation if I drive GLK another 50k km vs the $20k I would have to pay up front plus depreciation if switching to an Outback or Highlander.

It WAS nice to get back in GLK250 after test drives
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Old 10-08-2018, 11:47 AM
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This is why it makes sense to start saving what you'd normally be paying as your monthly payment, because chances are you'll need it.

There's no other vehicle of this class that I would prefer. For my commute, anything I get HAS TO BE a diesel.

Still waiting on those promises by Mazda, Hyundai and others for a modern, sporty diesel SUV that doesn't break the bank. Till then, my GLK better behave.
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Old 10-08-2018, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by andreigbs View Post
This is why it makes sense to start saving what you'd normally be paying as your monthly payment, because chances are you'll need it.
The GLK was the first brand new Benz I bought. Our other Benzes were 3 or 4 years old when purchased. Still have them, and they have been super reliable (as has GLK). I am just disappointed in MB for only covering most emission system components for only 2 years. The Bluetecs are unfortunately not the simple diesels we grew up to love.

I don't really want to, but I am leaning towards trading the GLK. If MB would extend warranty for ALL emission system components for 8-10 years (as they have for soot sensor), I would re-consider.

Last edited by 107123210; 10-20-2018 at 03:55 PM. Reason: error
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:45 AM
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If MB would extend warranty for ALL emission system components for 8-10 years (as they have for soot sensor), I would re-consider.
I'm of the mindset that, just perhaps, they may have to pony up like VW did. If/when they do, they will have to offer an extended warranty of some kind that specifically covers the entire emissions system. In VW's case, it covers the turbo, engine itself and a few other accessories like EGR, etc. as well, which are all related to emissions. The TDIs that have been "fixed" now carry a 11yr/120k mile warranty, which is insane. Maybe MB will come up with something like that, if not quite as generous.

The idea being: hold onto it and take care of it. I don't baby it but I also don't abuse it. I believe the 229.5 oil didn't hurt your engine in any way, even if it may have loaded up the DPF more than you'd have liked. But as long as the emissions system did its job of cleaning the DPF, you should (knock on wood) be fine. If you are overly concerned about your DPF failing early, as some have, then it may not be a bad idea to consider taking it to a big rig shop that specializes in cleaning them. You could wait until after the warranty period if you wish, just to avoid any potential claim issues post-cleaning. At least you'd know for a fact that it's nearly factory-clean and you're running the right oil. How much is peace of mind worth?

Indeed, these are not the diesels that I grew up with. My father has owned more than a handful of 70s and 80s MB diesels and they were bulletproof for the most part. My first car after getting my license on my 16th b-day was a '75 240D and I still wish I'd kept it.
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