What is going on with MB??
Out Of Control!!
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2017 GLE350 4MATIC
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2012 CLS63
My GLS63 was in the shop for extended period of time primarily for random OEM parts very hard to find and shipped slow boat to the States. I had a GL63 early first adopter back in '13 until my current '21 GLS63. Both custom ordered with all the bells. I got a little too comfortable and was disappointed with small things in the new GLS63 regarding some fit and finish and I HATE the slap on iPads across the dash. I would like at least a leather brow to frame and to look more finished and etc etc.
Over the last few months, I rented Range Rovers (best looking SUV in my opinion but the drive experience was average at best on the highway), Jeep Wagoneers (Looks bad but it drove very nicely), Teslas (cheap cheap fit and finish but bells and whistles fun to play with) , BMW X5 & X7 (X5 drove better than the X7 but BOTH very disappointing with fit and finish... cheap Merc but driving was more engaging as with most BMW's)
I FINALLY got back in to my 63 and it made me appreciate that it's a much better vehicle all around than the ones I rented. The drive, fit & finish, quiet, and the bells (still need to up their game in this regard but still pretty good). The drive is more isolated but that's Mercedes' signature.
Grass is not always greener over there.
Over the last few months, I rented Range Rovers (best looking SUV in my opinion but the drive experience was average at best on the highway), Jeep Wagoneers (Looks bad but it drove very nicely), Teslas (cheap cheap fit and finish but bells and whistles fun to play with) , BMW X5 & X7 (X5 drove better than the X7 but BOTH very disappointing with fit and finish... cheap Merc but driving was more engaging as with most BMW's)
I FINALLY got back in to my 63 and it made me appreciate that it's a much better vehicle all around than the ones I rented. The drive, fit & finish, quiet, and the bells (still need to up their game in this regard but still pretty good). The drive is more isolated but that's Mercedes' signature.
Grass is not always greener over there.
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2020 GLS450 (wife) / 2024 Ford Bronco (mine) / 2014 VW Tiquan (son)
If you’re into the cutting edges of tech, and/or spent your career in the tech world, then I can totally see the appeal of current trends! When we were kids (i’m 50), you guys were mastering your Commador64 and I was ruining the carpet in my room with gear grease for my Tamiya Frog RC car! Ha!!
i don't mind tech, I just don’t want to spend a lot of time on its learning curve all the time, and I absolutely hate having to fix it. I used like tinkering with it, was always a Microsoft / Windows fan. Built a few computers over the years. But when I hit 40, it was just one too many updates for me and I switch everything over to Apple instead. Same for mowing my lawn about a month ago when my $600 Honda mower broke halfway thru. I said “f’it, 40 years is long enough, this stays here”, and I rolled that mower to the curb and called the landscaper for $200 a month. I turned 50 last week, and my mowing days are behind me.
when I sat in the EQ’s at the dealership a few days ago, yes I was wowed by all of the things that lit up and dinged and chimed. But to me, it just screamed “I will own you”. Perhaps if the burl walnut were there, and some of the older school design elements were present, it would not have turned me off so badly. But nothing can make up the snug fit and skinny seats. I need more spread out room. Especially at that price.
Granted, I’m grouchy right now in general. My career is in Commercial Real Estate, and my days are not very fun right now.
i don't mind tech, I just don’t want to spend a lot of time on its learning curve all the time, and I absolutely hate having to fix it. I used like tinkering with it, was always a Microsoft / Windows fan. Built a few computers over the years. But when I hit 40, it was just one too many updates for me and I switch everything over to Apple instead. Same for mowing my lawn about a month ago when my $600 Honda mower broke halfway thru. I said “f’it, 40 years is long enough, this stays here”, and I rolled that mower to the curb and called the landscaper for $200 a month. I turned 50 last week, and my mowing days are behind me.
when I sat in the EQ’s at the dealership a few days ago, yes I was wowed by all of the things that lit up and dinged and chimed. But to me, it just screamed “I will own you”. Perhaps if the burl walnut were there, and some of the older school design elements were present, it would not have turned me off so badly. But nothing can make up the snug fit and skinny seats. I need more spread out room. Especially at that price.
Granted, I’m grouchy right now in general. My career is in Commercial Real Estate, and my days are not very fun right now.
Last edited by nc211; Sep 29, 2023 at 11:57 AM.
Out Of Control!!
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From: San Francisco Bay Area
2019 C63CS
Funny you say all that. I use technology exactly to do things for me that I don't wanna do myself anymore. For example I have a smart home now, so instead of carrying keys around and wondering if I locked my doors I tell Siri that I'm leaving and it locks the house, makes sure the garage is closed and arms the alarm system and I have a bunch of other stuff monitored and automated so I don't have to attend to them.
I don't have a lawn, but I used to mow my parents lawn when I was a kid and swore I'll never do that anymore. My parents now have a robotic lawn mower which autonomously mows parts of the lawn everyday. They've become very popular in Europe. Pretty much everybody has one.
You bring up memories, I used to do RC cars, too in my childhood.
I don't have a lawn, but I used to mow my parents lawn when I was a kid and swore I'll never do that anymore. My parents now have a robotic lawn mower which autonomously mows parts of the lawn everyday. They've become very popular in Europe. Pretty much everybody has one.
You bring up memories, I used to do RC cars, too in my childhood.
Last edited by superswiss; Sep 30, 2023 at 12:31 PM.
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Remember they don't have a luxury brand and they are generally more expensive than mainstream brands, but the fit and finish and materials used easily beat entry level luxury cars. I mean, it makes sense, they only have one brand, Mazda so they put whatever the best they have in.
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Cheap interiors are sadly becoming the norm also at Porsche. Cayenne facelift is getting bad feedback from increased plasticky-ness including leather that looks and feels like vinyl and increased exterior black plastic non-painted trim. Like a 2011 Subaru.
Taycan interior is EV-cheap.
911 will likely continue as a halo car with performance and luxury variants but the other cars will see cheapened interiors.
Taycan interior is EV-cheap.
911 will likely continue as a halo car with performance and luxury variants but the other cars will see cheapened interiors.
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Your assessment seems to follow along with what I see. We own four MB's, currently. The best example of what you are describing is how I see our 2016 GL450, and a 2022 GLS450. If I'm going out and both are in the driveway I'll take the 2016 GL450 10 out of 10 times. It is a more comfortable ride, better performance, nicer looking interior and quality with the burl wood and leather. Literally everything in the 2022 GLS450 looks and feels cheaply made. It just doesn't feel solid when you drive it, has a lot of rattles, squeaks and annoying noises, even on smooth surfaces. We needed the second SUV with the space these afford you for a daily driver and would have opted for an older model if I could have found one with low mileage and the options we wanted. I really don't envision buying another MB in my lifetime. I've recognized I'm definitely not the demographic they are interested in attracting.
Out Of Control!!
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2017 GLE350 4MATIC
Bentayga will get pushed upmarket towards Cullinan where price is generally of no consideration.
MB has trouble coming on the horizon with the Porsche large SUV.
RR, large Porsche SUV, LX, and X7 are going to make life difficult for GLS. Even Expedition and Escalade are legitimate GLS alternatives when it comes to interior space and towing capability. This is a crowded segment with many good choices.
Last edited by chassis; Sep 30, 2023 at 08:01 PM.
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Yes. And another Porsche-unique factor is they need to push Cayenne and Macan downmarket to create space above Cayenne and below Bentayga for the new "large SUV". This will sell against GLS and X7, and will likely carry the most luxurious interior of any Porsche. So they are de-contenting the Cayenne interior to create product differentiation.
Bentayga will get pushed upmarket towards Cullinan where price is generally of no consideration.
MB has trouble coming on the horizon with the Porsche large SUV.
RR, large Porsche SUV, LX, and X7 are going to make life difficult for GLS. Even Expedition and Escalade are legitimate GLS alternatives when it comes to interior space and towing capability. This is a crowded segment with many good choices.
Bentayga will get pushed upmarket towards Cullinan where price is generally of no consideration.
MB has trouble coming on the horizon with the Porsche large SUV.
RR, large Porsche SUV, LX, and X7 are going to make life difficult for GLS. Even Expedition and Escalade are legitimate GLS alternatives when it comes to interior space and towing capability. This is a crowded segment with many good choices.
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GLE 580
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It never will be. The "S-Class of SUV's" is purely a marketing thing. The GLS is almost $30k cheaper afterall. The only reason for the S in the name is because of the naming restructure, the GL(S) was never designed to be an S-Class SUV, and if anything it sells better because of that.
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Yes. And another Porsche-unique factor is they need to push Cayenne and Macan downmarket to create space above Cayenne and below Bentayga for the new "large SUV". This will sell against GLS and X7, and will likely carry the most luxurious interior of any Porsche. So they are de-contenting the Cayenne interior to create product differentiation.
Bentayga will get pushed upmarket towards Cullinan where price is generally of no consideration.
MB has trouble coming on the horizon with the Porsche large SUV.
RR, large Porsche SUV, LX, and X7 are going to make life difficult for GLS. Even Expedition and Escalade are legitimate GLS alternatives when it comes to interior space and towing capability. This is a crowded segment with many good choices.
Bentayga will get pushed upmarket towards Cullinan where price is generally of no consideration.
MB has trouble coming on the horizon with the Porsche large SUV.
RR, large Porsche SUV, LX, and X7 are going to make life difficult for GLS. Even Expedition and Escalade are legitimate GLS alternatives when it comes to interior space and towing capability. This is a crowded segment with many good choices.
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To me the 7-Seater Porsche SUV is a smart idea in printing money and sales, but I have a feeling like the Panny it will be a confusing (not to mention overly-expensive) product.
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I find the Panamera to be a confused car. The last one I drove was fitted with every option and still the drive felt very clinical and lacked the feel that even one can get behind the wheel of a Macan. On the other hand, the low driving position and tighter cabin scream more sport than luxury. It kind of reminds me of a SWB 7er but without the feel they once had. The first gen Panny while ugly as sin (the new one isn't very pretty either unless its a Sport Turismo imo) was much more engaging behind the wheel.
To me the 7-Seater Porsche SUV is a smart idea in printing money and sales, but I have a feeling like the Panny it will be a confusing (not to mention overly-expensive) product.
To me the 7-Seater Porsche SUV is a smart idea in printing money and sales, but I have a feeling like the Panny it will be a confusing (not to mention overly-expensive) product.
Well be interesting if the new 7-seater Porsche SUV will get closer to XM in terms of overpriced, but if it is, it might be a bad idea on their part.
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It indeed is, it was Porsche's attempt of trying to be luxurious and sporty at the same time but ended up being neither. Good idea but poor execution but glad it still came out because otherwise CLS wouldn't had existed as if I recalled correctly Panamera came out before first gen CLS?
Well be interesting if the new 7-seater Porsche SUV will get closer to XM in terms of overpriced, but if it is, it might be a bad idea on their part.
Well be interesting if the new 7-seater Porsche SUV will get closer to XM in terms of overpriced, but if it is, it might be a bad idea on their part.
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Thank you for confirming, I stand corrected. So what was the reason for Panamera's existence? To compete with the CLS? Or is it because they think buyers want a family (performance?) sedan with four doors yet still sporty coupe looking?
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I believe there was a story on Top Gear or somewhere that the Porsche CEO wanted to have an executive sedan that he could sit in the back of and he also happens to be over 6ft tall which is why the first generation has some a hunched roofline. Of course there was also likely enough demand for a Porsche sedan to join the lineup at the time too, but I distinctly remember hearing that story about the CEO. There was actually supposed to be a smaller Panamera join the lineup in the 2010's called the Pajun which would more so rival the 5er/E-Class but Dieselgate cancelled those plans and created the Taycan instead.
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I believe there was a story on Top Gear or somewhere that the Porsche CEO wanted to have an executive sedan that he could sit in the back of and he also happens to be over 6ft tall which is why the first generation has some a hunched roofline. Of course there was also likely enough demand for a Porsche sedan to join the lineup at the time too, but I distinctly remember hearing that story about the CEO. There was actually supposed to be a smaller Panamera join the lineup in the 2010's called the Pajun which would more so rival the 5er/E-Class but Dieselgate cancelled those plans and created the Taycan instead.
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2014 Mercedes E350 4matic Wagon, 2018 Fiat 124 Spyder Lusso manual, 2005 Acura TSX manual
Lol the new gen lexus LX is a joke
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2024 GLS450
Remember they don't have a luxury brand and they are generally more expensive than mainstream brands, but the fit and finish and materials used easily beat entry level luxury cars. I mean, it makes sense, they only have one brand, Mazda so they put whatever the best they have in.
Reliability was also a disappointment on every single one of them I was saddled with having to look at in my driveway.
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While I'm not a Honda fan, they are on par with Honda, perhaps beat Toyota in the interior materials - but they are a mainstream brand and are nothing special. Not coming from armchair reviewing, unfortunately I had quite a few of them pass through my driveway as my ex was obsessed with the brand. They are not on the same playing field as entry level luxury brands...
Reliability was also a disappointment on every single one of them I was saddled with having to look at in my driveway.
Reliability was also a disappointment on every single one of them I was saddled with having to look at in my driveway.
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2024 S580
Back to the topic, I am beginning to wonder if car manufacturers are skipping past my generation a bit. I’m 50 and coming into a segment that can start to afford higher end cars like the S and 7 series. But I’m also a segment that doesn't want to spend a lot of time interacting with advanced technology.
Having a 2020 S560 and being in the process of trying to replace it I have driven a lot of cars. This is at current an issue with MB, but not as much with other manufacturers. The 223 S Class feels like a step down in quality from mine for sure, its well documented here and many people have commented on it. Its still an incredible car, it just doesn't feel the same. BUT, the new 7 Series has an incredible interior and feels incredible to drive. You may or may not like the looks of it, but you can't fault the quality and it feels higher quality than the 223 S Class for sure. So, quality still exists out there. The S Class has had foibles before, think of the 220 S Class and they came back super strong with the 221 and 222...MB will find their way.
The new Range Rovers are also incredibly high quality feeling, quality is out there.
We also just replaced my wife's 2020 Pacifica with a new 2023 Pacifica Pinnacle, and it is surprisingly nice inside and improved from the pre-refresh van.
I will likely either get a new 7 Series when the time comes (6 months or so) or I will keep my S560 and wait and see the mid cycle refresh S580.
I will NEVER buy that feature, nor will I buy the electronic distance keeping cruise control. I. Drive. That’s it. The day I need a computer to help me steer a car, or move a car, is the last day that I will be behind the wheel in general. I think they're dangerous features. Blind spot monitoring, ok, beep all you want. But try and take my control away from me, and I’m done.
What you experienced was lane keep assist which I always turn off. Lane centering though when its activated holds the car in the center of the lane and coupled with radar cruise control it does 90% of the driving for you. You don't realize how much strain on a long trip that system relieves you of. Now that I am accustomed to it in the S560, I REALLY miss it when I drive the Pacifica on a trip. They don't take control away from you, if I pull the wheel left, it goes left.
I have also been saved numerous times by the automatic braking, backing out of a space and the car slammed the brakes on because it saw a pedestrian or a cross traffic car or something and I didn't see them.
I would be more open minded about this tech, it really does help.
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Porsche Taycan, Range Rover AB, Range Rover SVR, S Class, Mclaren 570s, Urus Hybrid (soon), M3, RS6
I find that common interesting, the finish of my Taycan surpasses either of my W222s, I had 1 nappa and 1 mbtex. I've ripped apart all of the above cars for custom audio installs, obviously I'm not saying the Taycan is more comfortable than the S Class but it's definitely not EV cheap like the Teslas. I was a bit disappointed when I first opened my 222 in 2014; the Taycan's full leathers attracts particles so much easier though, it needs a frequent interior clean. Also I remember we spoke a bit about the Cayenne, I had my nephews Cayenne Turbo GT yesterday, he lowered it, tuned it and I believe did backbox delete, that car is INSANE. He replaced his Urus with it and I don't think he made the wrong decision.
Last edited by UrBusted; Oct 2, 2023 at 04:51 PM.
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I find that common interesting, the finish of my Taycan surpasses either of my W222s, I had 1 nappa and 1 mbtex. I've ripped apart all of the above cars for custom audio installs, obviously I'm not saying the Taycan is more comfortable than the S Class but it's definitely not EV cheap like the Teslas. I was a bit disappointed when I first opened my 222 in 2014; the Taycan's full leathers attracts particles so much easier though, it needs a frequent interior clean. Also I remember we spoke a bit about the Cayenne, I had my nephews Cayenne Turbo GT yesterday, he lowered it, tuned it and I believe did backbox delete, that car is INSANE. He replaced his Urus with it and I don't think he made the wrong decision.
MBWorld God!
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While I'm not a Honda fan, they are on par with Honda, perhaps beat Toyota in the interior materials - but they are a mainstream brand and are nothing special. Not coming from armchair reviewing, unfortunately I had quite a few of them pass through my driveway as my ex was obsessed with the brand. They are not on the same playing field as entry level luxury brands...
Reliability was also a disappointment on every single one of them I was saddled with having to look at in my driveway.
Reliability was also a disappointment on every single one of them I was saddled with having to look at in my driveway.
