SW20S

“lack of physical buttons” is a design decision. That doesn’t bother me. I had two Lexus LS460s and those are notorious for bad brake actuators, and my 2017 had it replaced at 5,000 miles, 2015 had it done about 25,000 miles. That’s not a big deal at all compared to what we are talking about here.

The Japanese simply don’t make anything of this caliber. If you just bought a GLS for the MB badge that’s an option but if you care about what makes this car what it is over something like a TX or an MDX then that’s not an option.

No complex, sophisticated car is going to be as reliable as a basic FWD Toyota, including those made by Toyota.

EWL5

2012 C300 4MATIC - first Benz and no issues. Had the trademark "vault door" sound when closing. I realize we've given that up with more aluminum usage but those were the days... Only con was that it was so low to the ground the front splitter kept getting scratches and cracks.

2013 E350 4MATIC - pretty decent car and loved the exterior (especially on the low-profile AMG wheels). It was a lease but regretted not buying it out after 2 years.

2016 GLS450 - bought this as a CPO (it was just under 3 yrs old at the time). Maintained quite a bit of the old school Mercedes charm and nothing really screamed cheap.

2023 GLS450 - was very reluctant to buy this car as I read so many horror stories on forums such as this and my choice would have been an X7. Despite newer tech, the combo of using less chrome and more plastic (especially the unpainted wheel arches on non-AMG exteriors) is not lost on me.

If you're telling me to stick with Mercedes, then tell me why this thread is so popular?

chassis

Buyers’ remorse and attaching one’s ego to an inanimate appliance.

SW20S

I’m not telling you to stick with Mercedes, I’m just saying that there is more to what makes a vehicle like the GLS what it is than it “just being a Mercedes”. The Japanese simply don’t make a vehicle like this vehicle. That’s also why I left Lexus and came to MB, Lexus stopped making a car like the S Class.

So you have a decision to make, do you actually value the physical benefits of this vehicle, do you want the design sophistication and platform sophistication or not? If you don’t then yeah you can get a TX or an MDX or a Telluride or a Palisade and get a vehicle that likely will be more reliable over time. If you do though then you don’t have those kinds of options. The Grand Cherokee has that sophistication, but that’s no reliability upgrade at all. You could go to something like a Tahoe…that has a lot of sophistication but is truck based and that brings its own challenges. The Mazda CX-90 is really the only mainstream
option That is unibody, RWD layout, has a good engine, and has some chassis and suspension sophistication but it lacks the polish of the GLS, no air suspension etc.

nc211

My only issue with the idea of not keeping this GLS is this nightmare scenario of the 48v taking out the car. I know nothing is perfect, but now having experienced what this is like with this loaner glc, it truly males you want to ditch it all and run away. If they knew EXACTLY what the problem was, and could fix it easily, then ok I might feel better about it, and if MB would stand behind it with a specific extended warranty for it, even better. But to me, now, it feels like once you’re out of warranty, you’re flirting with a multi-thousand dollar repair issue that is just sitting out there waiting for the worst time possible to hit you. It’s not like a bad distributor cap, or faulty ignition wires. It’s this mysterious bug deep in the dna of the car itself. Bad battery? Ok, how much does a new battery cost? $5,000?? Gee. That sounds reasonable. Oh wait it happened again. Bad ground connector? Ok, lets try that. Nope, and it’s stuck at billy bob’s bbq in eastern NC at the moment. Software glitch you say? Ok perfect. But why didn’t you update it already via a recall? Or over the air?

EWL5

A good reputation takes a lifetime to achieve but only moments to ruin.
The biggest thing Mercedes should be worried about is, when they go back to making good cars that are reliable and don't feel cheap, will anyone be around to notice?

The upcoming Millenials, Gen Z, etc won't have the patience for this!

EWL5

The high risk associated with keeping a German car out of warranty (w/o extending it) is no secret and unlikely to change. What is novel to the recent Mercedes experience is the failure to launch a new gateway vehicle w/o incident and apparently w/ adequate testing. Wasn't the new GLC available overseas before it came to the US? Is the GLC the last Benz model to receive the 48V battery? Why is there still no solution?

SW20S

These are things that people have been saying about Mercedes for decades. Mercedes was never Lexus…out of warranty costs have always been a huge concern, it hasn’t been a brand noted for reliability in 40 years. That was Lexus’ whole selling proposition.

I wouldn’t own one without a warranty…

Why Lexus hasn’t made proper SUVs on the GA-L platform that underpins the LS and LC I don’t know…

superswiss

There might not be people around who still even want to own a car. Gen Z'ers in particular are avoiding cars in ever larger numbers. They don't want the car dependent suburban lifestyle, so they live in walkable cities where they don't have to own a car in the first place. Partly it's for economic reasons. They are poorer than their parents were at their age and can't really afford the expenses that come with owning a car. Especially if they still believe they'll have a shot at owning a home one day, so they are stocking away the money towards a down payment and paying off their student loans instead of wasting it on a car payment. The demographics are changing. Most countries are facing a population that's increasingly getting older and fewer younger people are asked to pay for their social security. These generations won't be in a place to splurge on luxury cars.

EWL5

All excellent points and even less reason for Mercedes to exist in the future if they don’t right the ship now!

SW20S

We used to say all the same things about Millennials, I'm in the housing industry and we had all kinds of meetings and surveys and studies as to why millennials didn't want to buy homes, now they are the largest group of homebuyers.

Gen Z will buy cars and homes just like everybody else.

wildta

I rented a Grand Cherokee L back in 2022 that left me stranded. It had less than 5k on the odometer, battery checked out fine but it wouldn't start. If I recall, there was a stop on sales for them that year due to some electrical issue.

I agree it was nice feature wise but I don't think it's any better than Mercedes besides the price.

nc211

Yep! Can’t tell you how many thousands upon thousands of apartment units I financed from 2005-2015 for those hipster Millennials who wanted to live by a metro line, no car, a starbucks with an organic grocery store along the ground level. Now, they’re sucking down straight shots of espresso instead of the mochacrapsalotsa to kee their eyes open as they jam to wheels on the bus go round and round in their Honda Odyssey and desperate to buy something within 10 minutes of Costco that can give them just 100sf of privacy. Welcome to the burb-life *****es, take a seat and we GenX’rs will be with you in a few minutes…

I don’t know what we would replace the GLS with if it ever went into meltdown mode like this GLC did today. But it would not be one of these 48v setups, that I am positive about. To be honest, I really debated between this X167 or a lightly used x166 550 when shopping. But I wanted to get my wife a brand new car. Honestly, there are times when I think the 166 would’ve been the better “mercedes benz”. But that ship has sailed.

The GLS is a bery nice car. But it’s not a 10+ year car. None of them seem to be as they’ve moved on from the 2011-2019 era. That “permanent” feeling is gone. That feeling when you buy one and you know when it’s time to fix, say a control arm bushing or the alternator, you just fix it and keep on going. Now, they feel like all of the others out there. Instead of fixing it, you just het rid of it.

I have no problem with fixing mechanical issues that cone with age and wear. And I am not afraid of spending a fee thousand every year to do so for the E. I’ve had it for 6+ years and probably have spent close to $10k on repairs and upkeep. A cam magnet leak, or a worn seal on the differential, worn driveshaft couplings, that sort if stuff. I don’t mind it because there just isn’t another sedan on the market quite like it.

But I do mind electric issues that kill the car. Ghosts in the machine, isn’t a path I am willing to follow, especially on an overly engineered MB.

superswiss

The census data shows a different story. Millennial homeownership rate stands at 48.6%, 20% lower than Gen X and 30% lower than Baby Boomers. The trend is downward and the pandemic has accelerated the downward trend. These numbers may catch up some as the generations age, but even at the same age the trend is downward. Older millennials who have turned 40 some 60% own homes. At the same age in life, Gen X were at 64% Baby Boomers at 68% and Silents at 73%. The numbers look way worse in expensive housing markets like here in California.

SW20S

This is what I do for a living my friend, I know the numbers cold and I live it every day. nc211 is also in the industry just on the commercial side, we're not giving you opinions we're telling you the reality. The largest group of homebuyers is millennials (last year boomers slipped back in but thats because of the competitiveness of the market and boomers ability to pay cash). They just bought/are buying later in their lives. Just watch, the homeownership rates will climb and climb as with each year 40% of the buyers are millennials. They also don’t buy starter homes, it’s very common to have Millennials buy that 4,000 square foot colonial as their first home. I always joke that their parents lived in the suburbs and drove Tahoes and now they live in the suburbs and drive Tahoes. I'm 42. so I'm BARELY a milennial and when I bought my first home at 24 I was the ONLY one of my friends who owned a home, and now none of them rent, they all own. I helped them all buy and it really kicked in when we were in our low to mid 30s, so I was about 10 years ahead of my peers. I no joke helped friends of mine living with their parents at 30 years old buy $800,000 houses.

The pandemic exploded the real estate market and dramatically increased demand for housing, it didn’t hurt it. Housing right now is inventory constrained, there would be way more transactions if inventory was available.

Point is, Gen Zers WILL buy cars, it may just be later in life than older generations.

SW20S

Yep! The reversal is amazing.

Thats just it, there isn't anything else that is similar that wouldn't have those same potential concerns. Just remember, way more people never have issues with the 48v system than do.

I get that, but the grass isn't greener on the other side. On the Chryslers, all the issues we have had have all been electrical...

I don't think ANY car is a 10+ year car anymore. You should just do what I do and lease. Yeah its expensive in the long run, but you have a set monthly cost for your cars, and you get new ones every 3-4 years. No worries about anything. Set up a consulting business and write them off, then they cost 1/2.

nc211

On my way to pick up now the 3rd loaner car for a seat cover repair..frustrating to say the least. Maybe an Audi loaner this time? Ha!

No argument you really can't replace or replicate a GLS. I think my frustration is become more aligned to the abysmal service/support history I've had with MB over the last 6 years. I really don't understand how they can let problems as severe as this one is, continue to exist. It's been a few years now since the first 48v glitch started showing up with this system. Why did that 2023 GLC with 1,200 miles do it too?

We are getting tired of cramming this active family of 4 into these small loaner cars. We want our rolling living room back. I could get it back now with the driver's seat fixed and just wait for the passenger seat to come in. But I have 0% faith that if I do that, it will actually get fixed. I'll just end up back in the blackhole of waiting for a phone call that the part has come in, knowing full well that it probably did and went to the one waiting in their shop instead of the one waiting in the customer's garage.

If my wife says it's time to replace the GLS, and she has one she would like to consider instead, then she'll get no argument from me. We'll enjoy it until then, and we do enjoy it. But my eye is now wandering about. There are many nice cars out there that can offer the same space for equal to less on the wallet. We don't care about 0-60. Honestly, my vote was for the VW Atlas fully decked out in 2020, but she didn't seem too excited about it. Liked it, didn't love it. She loved the Land Rover and the GLS, and decided on the GLS because of all of the stories of issues with the Land Rover. You have to admit, regardless of brand, a problem that can randomly void the vehicle's ability to operate in general, is a serious problem. Best or Nothing, has had at least 3 years to figure it out and fix it..... and at least 10 years to fix the MBTex from splitting apart...

The only car out there that really excites me and I would be willing to buy would be a 2024 Jeep Wrangler Sahara. I know, about as 180 as you can get. In a perfect world, I would have that for 80% of my daily driving, and my E350 for the highway cruises.

We'll see what happens. Fingers crossed nothing...

superswiss

I know that you are doing it for a living in your market. I do data for a living. I'm just telling you what the big data says. I'm not looking at individual local markets. YMMV, but the census data is what it is. They might catch up I agree, but I can't predict the future. Just looking at trends in the data.

SW20S

I look at the big data too, I've sat in many corporate meetings and discussed the data with both NAR economists and outside economists (I'm in management now for a huge national company), and I'm correct. Data doesn't tell you anything without context and experience telling you where the data is going. The largest group of homebuyers right now is millennials and they are becoming homeowners for the first time, that is national data not limited to my local marekt. They are going to be the driving force behind transactions for the next 15 years, that census data will change.

SW20S

Well, you can you just can't do so with something that isn't going to have many of the same long term reliability issues.

But why hasn't your GLS with 70k miles done it? Its just luck.

We are getting tired of cramming this active family of 4 into these small loaner cars. We want our rolling living room back. I could get it back now with the driver's seat fixed and just wait for the passenger seat to come in. But I have 0% faith that if I do that, it will actually get fixed. I'll just end up back in the blackhole of waiting for a phone call that the part has come in, knowing full well that it probably did and went to the one waiting in their shop instead of the one waiting in the customer's garage.

Same space, but not the same driving experience outside of say an X7. Its not about 0-60, its about overall driving feel and sophistication, I also drove the Atlas extensively and its a great vehicle, but again its transverse/FWD with macpherson strut suspension, its just designed to a much lower standard than the GLS which is RWD, has a multi-link suspension setup with air suspension. The Atlas is way more similar to a Highlander than a GLS.

superswiss

We'll have to wait and see I suppose. Millennials first have to make up lost ground from their late start and on top of that average life expectancy has dropped over the last few years. A late start is usually not an advantage. FWIW, the local market here is the complete opposite. $800k buys you maybe a 1 bedroom and that's before the bidding war starts. The majority of my older millennial friends don't own a place. Also I'm looking globally and not just nationally. The car market is ultimately a global and not a national market.

Drone_S213

In El Paso area (besides Toyota Honda Kia Hyundai) families are buying the VW Atlas for bragging rights on the Block. Atlas Cross Sports current cheap lease is $309/month. Larger families buying Truck based QX80 for panache even with its older Tech and Nissan Patrol perceived tough lineage. Don't really see many late model GLS GLE or GLCs or BMWs larger than the X5. West Texas and Southern NM Crew Cab Pickups, Tahoes, and Suburbans are King. Local Police and Fire Departments run Ford Expeditions for their Deputy Chiefs. Folks in this area buy vehicles that are easy to fix since local area higher end European Service Departments don't compensate qualified or experienced mechanics. Gotta drive to Tucson or in my case Albuquerque for Mercedes Proper Service.

SW20S

You live in one of the top 2 most expensive places to live in the entire country (perhaps even the most expensive). Like you said, your local market is not a barometer of what is happening around the entire country, the data is clear that millennials are buying houses and driving the market.

It all regresses to the mean in the end.

superswiss

I think we agree in general. Of course the millennials are driving the current market. They are the first home buyers now. That doesn't mean they gonna come close to prior generations in total ownership rate. They are already something like 10 years behind the curve due to their late start as you said yourself. Perhaps we need to grab a coffee in 30 years and see where it ended up and what other global crisis affected it. Funny thing is my county isn't even in the top 10 most expensive housing markets. California as a whole is, but there are more expensive places around the country.

SW20S

San Francisco is one of the most expensive housing markets in the country. Trust me lol. I'm talking about major market areas, not specifically counties or zip codes. My market is also in the top 5.