Illuminated Star while driving?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2023
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 311
'23 GLS450
I don’t see how you can say audio options are limited by getting away from AM and XM. We have way more audio options and at much higher quality than we ever had before, and audio systems are higher quality and crazier than ever before.
Part of the reason why reviewers don’t compare options like that is they are given one test car and they can really only test the options it has. Some reviewers do rate audio systems.
Part of the reason why reviewers don’t compare options like that is they are given one test car and they can really only test the options it has. Some reviewers do rate audio systems.
Just like with anything else, a routine can always be established where the car reviewer simply goes through a list to rate the audio system such as:
RMS Power
Can play discrete MCH audio files via USB (i.e. FLAC)? - yes on the GLS's standard Burmester audio but no for the X3 HiFi!
Number of Speakers
Subwoofer included? - I had them in my TLX A-Spec but not in my current X3 and GLS (replaced by Frontbass tech)!
Tuned by Professional or Dirac? - Elliot Scheiner had been involved w/Acura for many years but the relationship may end w/the change to Bang & Olufsen
If I'm not mistaken, Savage Geese sometimes includes the frequency response graphs in their video reviews!
I'm sure I can create a longer list but doesn't seem like we have many audiophiles here.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,030
Likes: 2,205
From: Colorado
'21 AMG53 wDPP & ARC, 19 GLC300 - Former-03 C240,2 ML BlueTecs,20 GLE450 E-ABC,15 Cayenne D,17 Macan
I don't think audiophiles would put much stock in a car reviewers opinions.
Frequency response and other statistics don't tell much about the sound quality.
The Burmester 3D is darn well worth five grand. It does things that only top notch home theaters can do.
An audiophile will bring his own demo files, sit in the car and listen.
My biggest mistake in purchasing my 21, was to skip the burmester 3D because it sent me over the 100K mark. Bad decision on my part.
Frequency response and other statistics don't tell much about the sound quality.
The Burmester 3D is darn well worth five grand. It does things that only top notch home theaters can do.
An audiophile will bring his own demo files, sit in the car and listen.
My biggest mistake in purchasing my 21, was to skip the burmester 3D because it sent me over the 100K mark. Bad decision on my part.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2023
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 311
'23 GLS450
If you had mentioned the 3D system has 29 speakers (including subwoofer) mated to a 27-channel amp w/1210W (dedicated SW amp is 400W) vs the standard Burmester w/13 speakers mated to a 9-channel amp (590W) and no sub, then you at least have my attention!
How does the "VIP seat function" work for individual seats on the 3D system? Why the hell is Vehicle Noise Compensation (VNC) and possibly MCH FLAC file support no longer standard in MY24 GLS (just going by the MY24 Ordering Guide)?
These are the type of details only a professional reviewer can provide!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 9,165
Likes: 4,642
From: Maryland
2024 S580
As an audiophile I'm surprised you can even listen to XM, the quality is awful. You can also stream XM over CarPlay, so having XM is not necessary. Quality is better with streaming too (still not good).
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 9,165
Likes: 4,642
From: Maryland
2024 S580
My only wish is that the point of entry for the upgrades were not so ridiculously high. $4,450 is a ridiculous amount to pay for an audio upgrade at this price point - it's one of just a couple of option boxes I didn't check because I just could not justify the upcharge.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2023
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 311
'23 GLS450
At home, I recently dialed in a Dirac Live room correction on my AVR and can listen to spatial audio in the "Dolby Atmos" bubble I created! Too bad that experience can't be replicated in a car (or can it? is that what the "VIP seat function" is meant for? that's what I want to know in a review!).
Last edited by EWL5; Feb 28, 2024 at 03:08 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,030
Likes: 2,205
From: Colorado
'21 AMG53 wDPP & ARC, 19 GLC300 - Former-03 C240,2 ML BlueTecs,20 GLE450 E-ABC,15 Cayenne D,17 Macan
This is all hyperbole and doesn't justify the nearly $5k investment! In what way does it approach the "top notch home theaters"?
If you had mentioned the 3D system has 29 speakers (including subwoofer) mated to a 27-channel amp w/1210W (dedicated SW amp is 400W) vs the standard Burmester w/13 speakers mated to a 9-channel amp (590W) and no sub, then you at least have my attention!
How does the "VIP seat function" work for individual seats on the 3D system? Why the hell is Vehicle Noise Compensation (VNC) and possibly MCH FLAC file support no longer standard in MY24 GLS (just going by the MY24 Ordering Guide)?
These are the type of details only a professional reviewer can provide!
If you had mentioned the 3D system has 29 speakers (including subwoofer) mated to a 27-channel amp w/1210W (dedicated SW amp is 400W) vs the standard Burmester w/13 speakers mated to a 9-channel amp (590W) and no sub, then you at least have my attention!
How does the "VIP seat function" work for individual seats on the 3D system? Why the hell is Vehicle Noise Compensation (VNC) and possibly MCH FLAC file support no longer standard in MY24 GLS (just going by the MY24 Ordering Guide)?
These are the type of details only a professional reviewer can provide!
The VIP seat is a magnificent sound application. All the sounds are phase aligned at the selected seat.
It's like the Audessy phase and time alignment in a home theater, only better because the sound is tailored to the interior space.
If you buy specs, it's up to you if to decide who makes the better claim, kind of like the ridiculous truck towing claims earlier this century.
I listen and deploy my funds accordingly. It rivals my home theater, which has about $15k of sound equipment alone.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2023
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 311
'23 GLS450
Those specs do not tell what the system sounds like.
The VIP seat is a magnificent sound application. All the sounds are phase aligned at the selected seat.
It's like the Audessy phase and time alignment in a home theater, only better because the sound is tailored to the interior space.
If you buy specs, it's up to you if to decide who makes the better claim, kind of like the ridiculous truck towing claims earlier this century.
I listen and deploy my funds accordingly. It rivals my home theater, which has about $15k of sound equipment alone.
The VIP seat is a magnificent sound application. All the sounds are phase aligned at the selected seat.
It's like the Audessy phase and time alignment in a home theater, only better because the sound is tailored to the interior space.
If you buy specs, it's up to you if to decide who makes the better claim, kind of like the ridiculous truck towing claims earlier this century.
I listen and deploy my funds accordingly. It rivals my home theater, which has about $15k of sound equipment alone.
Audyssey detects but does not correct for phase (Dirac does). Official response here:
https://support.denon.com/app/answer...t%20an%20error.
I started out w/$15k worth of equipment in 2005 and have been adding/replacing equipment ever since.
Sorry to bore everyone else and apologies for going off topic!
Last edited by EWL5; Feb 28, 2024 at 04:44 PM.
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
New Electric Mercedes-AMG GT 4-Door Coupe Unveiled: 10 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
6 Mercedes Models That Did NOT Age Well (But Are Somehow Still Cool)
Verdad Gallardo
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,030
Likes: 2,205
From: Colorado
'21 AMG53 wDPP & ARC, 19 GLC300 - Former-03 C240,2 ML BlueTecs,20 GLE450 E-ABC,15 Cayenne D,17 Macan
People who are very interested in sound often bring in their own source material, sit and listen.
My Porsche dealer tries to have one car with a high-end Burmester on the floor at all times, so people can do just that.
Fortunately / unfortunately that's where I got hooked. I had one in my '20, and miss it a LOT.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 9,165
Likes: 4,642
From: Maryland
2024 S580
If I were ordering a car, I would pop for the upgraded Burmester for sure, issue is when you buy off the lot like I do its hard to find one with it because dealers don't order it due to cost.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2023
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 311
'23 GLS450
It's the only way, really.
People who are very interested in sound often bring in their own source material, sit and listen.
My Porsche dealer tries to have one car with a high-end Burmester on the floor at all times, so people can do just that.
Fortunately / unfortunately that's where I got hooked. I had one in my '20, and miss it a LOT.
People who are very interested in sound often bring in their own source material, sit and listen.
My Porsche dealer tries to have one car with a high-end Burmester on the floor at all times, so people can do just that.
Fortunately / unfortunately that's where I got hooked. I had one in my '20, and miss it a LOT.
When I was cross-shopping the X7, the local dealer's showroom car had the useless $2100 crystal headlights but not the Bowers & Wilkins diamond surround sound system!
Failing an in-person audition of the upgraded sound, reading/watching about the audio aspects of the car in a car review is the next best thing!
Last edited by EWL5; Feb 29, 2024 at 08:12 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,351
Likes: 90
From: Germantown, MD/Rehoboth Beach, DE
2024 GLS450
Funny that Audyssey is being mentioned - I'm running a somewhat ancient Denon AVR-4311ci receiver and all Paradigm speakers in my theater room here and cannot run any of the Audyssey settings otherwise I get an uncomfortable pressure sensation in my ears, so I am wondering if that is all related.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2023
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 311
'23 GLS450
Funny that Audyssey is being mentioned - I'm running a somewhat ancient Denon AVR-4311ci receiver and all Paradigm speakers in my theater room here and cannot run any of the Audyssey settings otherwise I get an uncomfortable pressure sensation in my ears, so I am wondering if that is all related.
We can take this offline or I can direct you to the appropriate AVS or ASR thread to continue this conversation!
Last edited by EWL5; Feb 29, 2024 at 10:11 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,030
Likes: 2,205
From: Colorado
'21 AMG53 wDPP & ARC, 19 GLC300 - Former-03 C240,2 ML BlueTecs,20 GLE450 E-ABC,15 Cayenne D,17 Macan
The specs at least gets the conversation started!
Audyssey detects but does not correct for phase (Dirac does). Official response here:
https://support.denon.com/app/answer...t%20an%20error.
I started out w/$15k worth of equipment in 2005 and have been adding/replacing equipment ever since.
Sorry to bore everyone else and apologies for going off topic!
Audyssey detects but does not correct for phase (Dirac does). Official response here:
https://support.denon.com/app/answer...t%20an%20error.
I started out w/$15k worth of equipment in 2005 and have been adding/replacing equipment ever since.
Sorry to bore everyone else and apologies for going off topic!
Audyssey DOES do Phase Alignment, also called Time Alignment. It's a sophisticated thing that's difficult to achieve, and it varies incrementally from seating position to another.
The fancy Burmester does it, and it's stellar.
Selecting the front two seats puts the front row in alignment - focusing on the Driver's seat will teach the driver exactly what Time Alignment sounds (and feels) like. It's a rare experience. Even better than 39 speakers and 27,670 watts (advertised, haha) boombox.
I know. I was once a paid listener for a speaker manufacturer and later an electronic theater organ company. I majored in acoustics.
Most people have never experienced phase alignment.
Like a good wine, once you get the taste, everything else falls short. An expensive habit, or in my case, a need, because un-aligned sound makes me cringe.
There's a forum on MBWorld that is about audio. It's occasionally active, but a better idea might be to pay attention to owners.
Dealers who care about their inventory will have a big Burmester in many of their vehicles, not just left there by somebody who mistakenly ordered it. It sells cars.
If people like good sound, they will find it hard to resist, once listening. The five grand I "saved" will force me into another car, with the associated depreciation hit. It was a stupid decision on my part.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2023
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 311
'23 GLS450
I think you misunderstand "Phase alignment." It's NOT reversed wiring - it's about the arrival of all signals, from each speaker, at the ear at the same time. Your link describes it well.
Audyssey DOES do Phase Alignment, also called Time Alignment. It's a sophisticated thing that's difficult to achieve, and it varies incrementally from seating position to another.
The fancy Burmester does it, and it's stellar.
Selecting the front two seats puts the front row in alignment - focusing on the Driver's seat will teach the driver exactly what Time Alignment sounds (and feels) like. It's a rare experience. Even better than 39 speakers and 27,670 watts (advertised, haha) boombox.
I know. I was once a paid listener for a speaker manufacturer and later an electronic theater organ company. I majored in acoustics.
Most people have never experienced phase alignment.
Like a good wine, once you get the taste, everything else falls short. An expensive habit, or in my case, a need, because un-aligned sound makes me cringe.
There's a forum on MBWorld that is about audio. It's occasionally active, but a better idea might be to pay attention to owners.
Dealers who care about their inventory will have a big Burmester in many of their vehicles, not just left there by somebody who mistakenly ordered it. It sells cars.
If people like good sound, they will find it hard to resist, once listening. The five grand I "saved" will force me into another car, with the associated depreciation hit. It was a stupid decision on my part.
Audyssey DOES do Phase Alignment, also called Time Alignment. It's a sophisticated thing that's difficult to achieve, and it varies incrementally from seating position to another.
The fancy Burmester does it, and it's stellar.
Selecting the front two seats puts the front row in alignment - focusing on the Driver's seat will teach the driver exactly what Time Alignment sounds (and feels) like. It's a rare experience. Even better than 39 speakers and 27,670 watts (advertised, haha) boombox.
I know. I was once a paid listener for a speaker manufacturer and later an electronic theater organ company. I majored in acoustics.
Most people have never experienced phase alignment.
Like a good wine, once you get the taste, everything else falls short. An expensive habit, or in my case, a need, because un-aligned sound makes me cringe.
There's a forum on MBWorld that is about audio. It's occasionally active, but a better idea might be to pay attention to owners.
Dealers who care about their inventory will have a big Burmester in many of their vehicles, not just left there by somebody who mistakenly ordered it. It sells cars.
If people like good sound, they will find it hard to resist, once listening. The five grand I "saved" will force me into another car, with the associated depreciation hit. It was a stupid decision on my part.
https://www.prosoundweb.com/time-phase-alignment/
I now understand why so many more drivers are included in the 3D package as it's not enough for the sound to arrive at the same time, the contributions from each of the tweeters and woofers need to also be phase aligned w/respect to the crossover!
Feedback on the 3D sound system was what I was looking for and you gave great selling points of why it's worth the additional money. Often I'm alone in the car and don't want the interior to be an echo chamber and desire the audio to be focused only on my seating position!
Mercedes and most of their SAs do a horrible job upselling audio and it takes a random person in a random thread of a random forum to explain the selling points! Thanks!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,030
Likes: 2,205
From: Colorado
'21 AMG53 wDPP & ARC, 19 GLC300 - Former-03 C240,2 ML BlueTecs,20 GLE450 E-ABC,15 Cayenne D,17 Macan
That's also true in high end stereo stores, unfortunately.
Every once in awhile you find somebody who knows their business. I try to support them because I learn from them.
I think I have found a tire guy who fits that description, and I'm going to stick with him, as I have in the past.
I don't know anybody in the car business who is an audiophile.
Every once in awhile you find somebody who knows their business. I try to support them because I learn from them.
I think I have found a tire guy who fits that description, and I'm going to stick with him, as I have in the past.
I don't know anybody in the car business who is an audiophile.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 9,165
Likes: 4,642
From: Maryland
2024 S580
We have an incredible tire shop here owned and run by a family who are huge car people and know tires very well...people like that are hard to find
I had a subwoofer added to my S560 and I was surprised even the people at the well recommended audio shop I used lacked any passion or enthusiasm and had no insights or thoughts to offer me, just took my order.
I had a subwoofer added to my S560 and I was surprised even the people at the well recommended audio shop I used lacked any passion or enthusiasm and had no insights or thoughts to offer me, just took my order.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2023
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 311
'23 GLS450
We have an incredible tire shop here owned and run by a family who are huge car people and know tires very well...people like that are hard to find
I had a subwoofer added to my S560 and I was surprised even the people at the well recommended audio shop I used lacked any passion or enthusiasm and had no insights or thoughts to offer me, just took my order.
I had a subwoofer added to my S560 and I was surprised even the people at the well recommended audio shop I used lacked any passion or enthusiasm and had no insights or thoughts to offer me, just took my order.
Not too many sales folks know audio compared to an enthusiast, even if they work in the store for years!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 9,165
Likes: 4,642
From: Maryland
2024 S580
Audio is "Black Magic". Even when I was selling these things nearly 20 years ago, customers always gravitated towards video over audio. They would rather spend $5k on a big screen plasma than the equivalent amount in audio (avr, amp, speakers, etc).
Not too many sales folks know audio compared to an enthusiast, even if they work in the store for years!
Not too many sales folks know audio compared to an enthusiast, even if they work in the store for years!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2023
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 311
'23 GLS450
Depends on who you hire. I think the Pandemic has taught us that it's really hard to find good help these days! Just look at the reduced staffing in the service industry!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2023
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 311
'23 GLS450
It's really hard to sustain excellence in this day and age! Even the best of brands are somehow surviving on the fumes of their reputation alone!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,030
Likes: 2,205
From: Colorado
'21 AMG53 wDPP & ARC, 19 GLC300 - Former-03 C240,2 ML BlueTecs,20 GLE450 E-ABC,15 Cayenne D,17 Macan
