Smooth Shifting?
07-26-2024, 04:40 PM
#26
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'21 AMG53 wDPP & ARC, 19 GLC300 - Former- 10&14 ML BlueTecs, 20 GLE450 E-ABC, 15 Cayenne D, 17 Macan
You mean the "Forced adaptation"? https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w...ng-w222-6.html
Thanks that reference. I think I'll print some pieces of it for my 40K checkup next week.
07-26-2024, 04:59 PM
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PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
07-26-2024, 05:06 PM
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'21 AMG53 wDPP & ARC, 19 GLC300 - Former- 10&14 ML BlueTecs, 20 GLE450 E-ABC, 15 Cayenne D, 17 Macan
07-26-2024, 05:08 PM
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PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
If you do this '"Forced adaptation" procedure don't do the flooring reset anymore afterwards, it might wipe the adaptation.
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07-26-2024, 05:30 PM
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07-26-2024, 05:40 PM
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07-26-2024, 06:30 PM
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As so many do - I'm doing my due diligence and listening to what owners here have to say (good AND bad) prior to buying (a wise thing to do do) and sharing my experience with the two S Class vehicles I've owned and their *****y transmissions, just as many have especially on the w222/223 forums. As also mentioned previously I'll be testing a new GLS next week and wanted to gather some intel in the process. Trust me if it shifts like **** I won't buy it. I will post my findings (good or bad) here so others in the process can be helped in their decision-making process.
Last edited by RJC; 07-26-2024 at 07:38 PM.
07-26-2024, 06:32 PM
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I've been thinking about the transmission adaptations for a while now, and I just posted this in the GLE 167 forum:
"And in my opinion, the only problem with downshifting is that the car's algorithm remembers that time you were aggressive, and retains that rev-matching-downshifting pattern longer than it might.
Once you floor it, it seems to wanna be a sporty transmission for an hour instead of 5 minutes."
I'm going in for my 40,000 mile checkup next week and a lot to talk with my shop about this. I started noticing rough downshifting about 4 or 5 months ago, and it seemed more related to my habits than the transmission. I guess. Maybe.
I really think it remembers "foot to the floor" and prioritizes it too long.
"And in my opinion, the only problem with downshifting is that the car's algorithm remembers that time you were aggressive, and retains that rev-matching-downshifting pattern longer than it might.
Once you floor it, it seems to wanna be a sporty transmission for an hour instead of 5 minutes."
I'm going in for my 40,000 mile checkup next week and a lot to talk with my shop about this. I started noticing rough downshifting about 4 or 5 months ago, and it seemed more related to my habits than the transmission. I guess. Maybe.
I really think it remembers "foot to the floor" and prioritizes it too long.
I drive my performance cars mostly in manual mode. There's IMO no better way to really drive a car than shifting manually. That's the only way to make sure the transmission is in lockstep with what you are going to do next. Thankfully the AMG transmissions are made to be shifted manually and are very satisfying in manual mode, but I'm very aware that shifting a regular Mercedes-Benz manually is rather dull and unsatisfying. They have the paddles, but the response of the paddles is just too laggy. I've driven manual transmissions for over 20 years. Automatic transmissions are nice and convenient for when I just wanna doodle along, but I've yet to experience an automatic transmission that shifts the way I do. I have to say in Race mode on the track the AMG transmissions are mostly bang on, but in daily driving it's simply hard to predict for a transmission what you are going to do next unless you drive very consistently in the same manner all the time.
07-26-2024, 06:40 PM
#34
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Relative to the universe of MB owners, the membership here is a relatively small group, and it's a lot of the usual suspects that are posting about issues. We have far more members that only read threads and never post. So, it's an even smaller group that is reporting transmission issues. Based on probability theory we pretty much know that this is only affecting a small group. Especially considering that owners such as me who have driven many different Mercedes models have yet to encounter one that shifts harshly. When an issue only affects a small group, one has to start looking for things that are unique to that group. I'm not trying to blame you or make excuses. I'm an engineer and whenever I'm faced with a bug that only affects a few users I have to find what's unique about them. Could be that they are doing something wrong, but could also be something else unique to them. Your car could simply be a lemon, was built on a bad day or got a part from a bad badge.
07-26-2024, 07:03 PM
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The harsh shifting MB transmissions is a well-known issue and has been for quite some time. I have spoken with the tech field specialists MB sent to deal with the issues in both my S coupes, shop foreman, and the regional service rep (who I became quite friendly with) and they all sheepishly admitted transmissions are just not MB's strong suit, and nothing will change that, other than MB. It is what it is.
07-26-2024, 07:36 PM
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Given where your head is on this, I echo what @SW20S said above. Probably best for you to look elsewhere.
07-26-2024, 11:16 PM
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Lots of good vehicles in this segment, no reason to buy something that you may very well be unhappy with.
07-27-2024, 08:57 AM
#38
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On my old W212, at about 68k miles I had my Indi shop completely flush out the transmission fluid (including the torque converter) and replaced it all with the Amsoil transmission fluid. I had the fluid changed around 40k too with MB fluid.
After the Amsoil fluid change, that 7+ gear box was insanely smooth. It shifted the best it ever did during the 50k+ miles and 7 years that I owned it. The difference the fluid made was very notable to the overall smoothness (and my enjoyment factor) of the car.
While yes, I do agree that MB gear boxes are goofy and develop harshness to them, I also think their fluid plays a role in it too.
Our GLS is very lumpy when coming to a slow stop. Clunks down 4/3/2/1 and annoys the crap out of me sometimes. So much so, that it became one of the reasons why I didn't replace my W212 with another MB product. That's kind of the double-edged sword of a luxury brand like MB. You expect everything to be perfect, you pay for perfect, and then when one or two things aren't, it can ruin the "perfectness" feeling.
The only "perfect" transmission for smoothness, is a manual with an experienced left foot. Sadly those days are just about long gone. I can drive a VW manual a heck of a lot smoother than any automatic Mercedes Benz.
After the Amsoil fluid change, that 7+ gear box was insanely smooth. It shifted the best it ever did during the 50k+ miles and 7 years that I owned it. The difference the fluid made was very notable to the overall smoothness (and my enjoyment factor) of the car.
While yes, I do agree that MB gear boxes are goofy and develop harshness to them, I also think their fluid plays a role in it too.
Our GLS is very lumpy when coming to a slow stop. Clunks down 4/3/2/1 and annoys the crap out of me sometimes. So much so, that it became one of the reasons why I didn't replace my W212 with another MB product. That's kind of the double-edged sword of a luxury brand like MB. You expect everything to be perfect, you pay for perfect, and then when one or two things aren't, it can ruin the "perfectness" feeling.
The only "perfect" transmission for smoothness, is a manual with an experienced left foot. Sadly those days are just about long gone. I can drive a VW manual a heck of a lot smoother than any automatic Mercedes Benz.
07-27-2024, 11:10 AM
#39
I am somewhat puzzled why some people have issues with the Mercedes transmissions. I personally own an AMG 63 model with the 9-speed MCT which given that it is tuned for performance and uses a clutch instead of a torque converter, it has a certain rawness to it, which is desired in a performance car, but over the last 5+ years I've driven numerous regular Mercedes-Benz loaners with the normal 9G, some of them for several weeks at a time from the C Class to the S Class and they all shifted smoothly. One would think given that loaners are driven by many different people that the transmission adaptation gets confused between the many driving styles, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I've also driven many rental cars with other torque converter automatics such as BMWs and others with the ZF8 etc. To be honest, the least refined one I recently drove was the ZF 9HP in a friend's Chrysler Pacifica. I didn't gel with that transmission for some reason. They also own a Jeep Cherokee that I've driven before and the automatic transmission in that one also leaves a lot to wish for. Don't know what Jeep puts in the Cherokee, though.
I do wonder how people drive and if they leave the car in Comfort mode during the break-in period as you are supposed to, so that the transmission properly establishes the base adaptation. It does seem that many people these days start to use Sport and Sport+ before the car has gone through proper break-in. Jerky shifts most often traces back to incomplete adaptation cycles. Resetting the adaptations doesn't help if you then don't go through the full break-in period again to let it properly adapt this time.
Admittedly, I can barely stand driving a regular ICE Mercedes-Benz in Comfort mode. The throttle response is so utter garbage that I have to put them in Sport/Sport+ just to drive normally. In contrast, I didn't find this to be the case with BMWs. They just drive properly out of the box, but regular Mercedes-Benz cars are just so sluggish in Comfort mode. After having had several EQS loaners recently, I understand why people like them. They have a proper throttle response and no transmission at all that may hesitate to downshift in the name of fuel economy. Perhaps it's time for you guys to go electric if you enjoy the luxury, smooth driving experience. Can't beat an EV when it comes to smooth driving.
I do wonder how people drive and if they leave the car in Comfort mode during the break-in period as you are supposed to, so that the transmission properly establishes the base adaptation. It does seem that many people these days start to use Sport and Sport+ before the car has gone through proper break-in. Jerky shifts most often traces back to incomplete adaptation cycles. Resetting the adaptations doesn't help if you then don't go through the full break-in period again to let it properly adapt this time.
Admittedly, I can barely stand driving a regular ICE Mercedes-Benz in Comfort mode. The throttle response is so utter garbage that I have to put them in Sport/Sport+ just to drive normally. In contrast, I didn't find this to be the case with BMWs. They just drive properly out of the box, but regular Mercedes-Benz cars are just so sluggish in Comfort mode. After having had several EQS loaners recently, I understand why people like them. They have a proper throttle response and no transmission at all that may hesitate to downshift in the name of fuel economy. Perhaps it's time for you guys to go electric if you enjoy the luxury, smooth driving experience. Can't beat an EV when it comes to smooth driving.
smooth driving.
Several interesting points here - Having owned two S Class sedans - a 2012 and my current 2018, I have never taken either of them out of Comfort mode. The concept of either one of them being "sluggish" has never entered my mind.
I find the '18 a little jerky when driving it in M1 mode for braking purposes, but in D mode, never noticed any shifting problems. Just proves how different we all are. I owned a very limited optioned '22 EQS450 for less than a year until I totaled it. Enjoyed much about it - yes, it was smooth. What i liked most about it was the 10 degree rear wheel steering.
However, if I get another MB (I'm in my 10th decade), it would most likely be a leased new S unit or a refreshed one coming off a two year lease. Since that would be after I reached 95, I don't really expect it to happen.
Last edited by Lou B; 07-27-2024 at 11:14 AM.
07-27-2024, 12:33 PM
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07-27-2024, 12:35 PM
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Aisin 8-speed in the 2nd gen Touareg/Cayenne was magic. Linear and controllable pedal and transmission. The benchmark to be replicated.
Agree that car companies can ruin a drivetrain with a good transmission by poor programming.
Pedal + spark + fuel + cam lift and phase + lockup clutch strategy + shift strategy + drivetrain mass and damping all have noticeable effects.
9Y0.1 Cayenne V6 drivetrains have a lurch noticeable on closed throttle braking 3–>2 downshift when approaching a stop because of poor lockup clutch strategy, chosen by Porsche. It’s a kindergarten level engineering failure. A 1972 Pontiac Le Mans shifts more smoothly when approaching a stop.
Agree that car companies can ruin a drivetrain with a good transmission by poor programming.
Pedal + spark + fuel + cam lift and phase + lockup clutch strategy + shift strategy + drivetrain mass and damping all have noticeable effects.
9Y0.1 Cayenne V6 drivetrains have a lurch noticeable on closed throttle braking 3–>2 downshift when approaching a stop because of poor lockup clutch strategy, chosen by Porsche. It’s a kindergarten level engineering failure. A 1972 Pontiac Le Mans shifts more smoothly when approaching a stop.
Last edited by chassis; 07-27-2024 at 12:46 PM.
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07-27-2024, 01:19 PM
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1972 cars didn't have lock-up torque converters, four or more speeds, or severe CAFE standards. It was an easier life for transmission technology back then.
A LeMans was a pretty "average at best" car. It's best trait was that it didn't have any power - a valuable asset in those days of Insurance companies dictating car development.
An apples and clothespins comparison.
A LeMans was a pretty "average at best" car. It's best trait was that it didn't have any power - a valuable asset in those days of Insurance companies dictating car development.
An apples and clothespins comparison.
07-27-2024, 02:29 PM
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1972 cars didn't have lock-up torque converters, four or more speeds, or severe CAFE standards. It was an easier life for transmission technology back then.
A LeMans was a pretty "average at best" car. It's best trait was that it didn't have any power - a valuable asset in those days of Insurance companies dictating car development.
An apples and clothespins comparison.
A LeMans was a pretty "average at best" car. It's best trait was that it didn't have any power - a valuable asset in those days of Insurance companies dictating car development.
An apples and clothespins comparison.
