towing with gas
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From: Colorado
'21 AMG53 wDPP & ARC, 19 GLC300 - Former-03 C240,2 ML BlueTecs,20 GLE450 E-ABC,15 Cayenne D,17 Macan
Good post to comment on. Thanks.
....
The W167 is still a crossover. It's a uniboby construction. the very definition of a crossover is an SUV shaped, car based platform. FWD, RWD, AWD, NWD, doesn't matter.
That's a more recent definition. I still use the historic definition (FWD vs RWD platform, crossover versus SUV) because to me it's more descriptive. I go back to the time when the AMC Eagle was called a crossover, and there was controversy about that classification at the time.
Other than a thing to argue about over a beer, it's not germane to this topic.
Not sure what you mean by having control just because a vehicle is "more fun to drive".
The ability to turn and stop is related to control. I don't think something that is slow to turn and stop is particularly enjoyable.
So my term "fun" is related to control, and more importantly, safety.
Especially when towing.
......
Hunter likes cocaine, doesn't mean it's the best, or even that it's good or good for you.
Hunter wasn't among the consensus on the Airstream forum, at least when I was checking.
Probably because Mercedes engineers didn't spend a lot of time making the ML (in general) a towing vehicle.
The shortfall was was gussets from the hitch supplier. It was actually from the ML320 (body on frame), and it turned out that my 2010 ML350 wasn't a victim, but I like meeting people who are well respected (Can-Am RV). So I used it as an excuse for the first long excursion, and to learn as much as possible.
Regarding the ML towing design: There was significant internal chassis reinforcement on factory tow packaged cars, which is why a retrofit with the same parts cost $2,600, instead of $750 when factory installed.
IDK what is inside the 167 chassis, but I'll bet it's similar. I'm guessing that the reason you can't get a hitch through parts now, is to streamline inventory. Or maybe the reinforcement is more substantial.
I can respect you've done your research and homework. But you were focusing your research on "a vehicle more fun to drive than a pick-up truck". And while an ML / GLS can tow, they are not designed and engineered for towing.
No, I was focusing on the best, most stable, safest tow vehicle for a 6,000# RV.
.....
Again, if that's your preference, I can respect that. But VW is a German manufacturer as well, and you didn't like that SUV.
It was inadequate. The Tiguan's (Golf based) tow rating was 2,400 lbs. To me, the difference included its FWD based design, compared to the RWD platform. My Cayenne was a VW product as well.
Yes, because everyone on the road is out to get you, right? Or, perhaps deep down, the drivers of those cars know on an instinctual level that towing with your "SUV" is somehow wrong?
I'm kidding, of course.
Haha.
Actually a refrigerator box fell off a truck just ahead, in Denver, at 60mph. Had to move immediately one lane left but not two because of heavy traffic the next lane over.
Chicago's episode was also in rush hour traffic, when a semi's tire exploded two lanes over and two cars ahead, and everybody dodged left. I actually had to accelerate to insert myself one lane over, but again, not two.
If you had been driving or had been with me in either of those cases you would have been impressed.
Yeah, till inertia inertia and weight of your trailer overpowers that independent suspension.
See previous comment. The suspension was definitely in control, challenged beyond any reasonable expectations, and did so with aplomb. Similar to a High Performance Driver Education maneuver but with a trailer.
By today's standards, 7,000 lbs is not a "big" trailer.
I agree.
But that's what I was looking to tow, and back then It was considered Big.
Un-small, if you prefer.
I can appreciate that and obviously won't argue against your experience based opinion. You like towing with SUV type vehicles, and I respect that. But it doesn't mean SUVs are the better choice for towing over say, a designed for towing pick-up truck, no matter how much you like towing with one.
I like using the right tool for the job.
You haven't seen any negative experience posted because you haven't been looking.
I'm referring to this thread.
I see internet searches and arguing about nomenclature. No actual bad experiences.
The only other post about towing with a full size German SUV was positive. Two to zero.
[TLDR]
You like towing with your SUV and that's cool. But it doesn't mean SUVs are better at the job than are vehicles built with towing in mind, like most pick-up trucks.
[/TLDR]
I'm talking about trailers that are within the ratings of GLS/GLEs.
Not trailers that require 1 tons.
In that range, I'll take a stout Euro SUV over a half ton any day. Unless I want to carry something in the bed.
The W167 is still a crossover. It's a uniboby construction. the very definition of a crossover is an SUV shaped, car based platform. FWD, RWD, AWD, NWD, doesn't matter.
That's a more recent definition. I still use the historic definition (FWD vs RWD platform, crossover versus SUV) because to me it's more descriptive. I go back to the time when the AMC Eagle was called a crossover, and there was controversy about that classification at the time.
Other than a thing to argue about over a beer, it's not germane to this topic.
Not sure what you mean by having control just because a vehicle is "more fun to drive".
The ability to turn and stop is related to control. I don't think something that is slow to turn and stop is particularly enjoyable.
So my term "fun" is related to control, and more importantly, safety.
Especially when towing.
......
Hunter likes cocaine, doesn't mean it's the best, or even that it's good or good for you.
Hunter wasn't among the consensus on the Airstream forum, at least when I was checking.
Probably because Mercedes engineers didn't spend a lot of time making the ML (in general) a towing vehicle.
The shortfall was was gussets from the hitch supplier. It was actually from the ML320 (body on frame), and it turned out that my 2010 ML350 wasn't a victim, but I like meeting people who are well respected (Can-Am RV). So I used it as an excuse for the first long excursion, and to learn as much as possible.
Regarding the ML towing design: There was significant internal chassis reinforcement on factory tow packaged cars, which is why a retrofit with the same parts cost $2,600, instead of $750 when factory installed.
IDK what is inside the 167 chassis, but I'll bet it's similar. I'm guessing that the reason you can't get a hitch through parts now, is to streamline inventory. Or maybe the reinforcement is more substantial.
I can respect you've done your research and homework. But you were focusing your research on "a vehicle more fun to drive than a pick-up truck". And while an ML / GLS can tow, they are not designed and engineered for towing.
No, I was focusing on the best, most stable, safest tow vehicle for a 6,000# RV.
.....
Again, if that's your preference, I can respect that. But VW is a German manufacturer as well, and you didn't like that SUV.
It was inadequate. The Tiguan's (Golf based) tow rating was 2,400 lbs. To me, the difference included its FWD based design, compared to the RWD platform. My Cayenne was a VW product as well.
Yes, because everyone on the road is out to get you, right? Or, perhaps deep down, the drivers of those cars know on an instinctual level that towing with your "SUV" is somehow wrong?
I'm kidding, of course.
Haha.
Actually a refrigerator box fell off a truck just ahead, in Denver, at 60mph. Had to move immediately one lane left but not two because of heavy traffic the next lane over.
Chicago's episode was also in rush hour traffic, when a semi's tire exploded two lanes over and two cars ahead, and everybody dodged left. I actually had to accelerate to insert myself one lane over, but again, not two.
If you had been driving or had been with me in either of those cases you would have been impressed.
Yeah, till inertia inertia and weight of your trailer overpowers that independent suspension.
See previous comment. The suspension was definitely in control, challenged beyond any reasonable expectations, and did so with aplomb. Similar to a High Performance Driver Education maneuver but with a trailer.
By today's standards, 7,000 lbs is not a "big" trailer.
I agree.
But that's what I was looking to tow, and back then It was considered Big.
Un-small, if you prefer.
I can appreciate that and obviously won't argue against your experience based opinion. You like towing with SUV type vehicles, and I respect that. But it doesn't mean SUVs are the better choice for towing over say, a designed for towing pick-up truck, no matter how much you like towing with one.
I like using the right tool for the job.
You haven't seen any negative experience posted because you haven't been looking.
I'm referring to this thread.
I see internet searches and arguing about nomenclature. No actual bad experiences.
The only other post about towing with a full size German SUV was positive. Two to zero.
[TLDR]
You like towing with your SUV and that's cool. But it doesn't mean SUVs are better at the job than are vehicles built with towing in mind, like most pick-up trucks.
[/TLDR]
I'm talking about trailers that are within the ratings of GLS/GLEs.
Not trailers that require 1 tons.
In that range, I'll take a stout Euro SUV over a half ton any day. Unless I want to carry something in the bed.
An SUV is not what I was expecting when I wanted to move to a larger RV.
I think I made the right choice.
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From: DFW
SL63
^Aplomb^ Excellent word. I haven’t seen that word used lately. That’s one of the things about the English language that I admire. English has one of the largest vocabularies, and many words to describe varying degrees of meaning for the same or similar word. It’s like the Eskimos having 50 different words for snow, each particularly descriptive.
A well coined phrase is like dubloons of gold dropping onto a silver platter.
A well coined phrase is like dubloons of gold dropping onto a silver platter.
Last edited by MB2timer; Jul 26, 2025 at 02:02 AM. Reason: +
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Maryland
2024 S580
Originally Posted by mikapne
That's a more recent definition. I still use the historic definition (FWD vs RWD platform, crossover versus SUV) because to me it's more descriptive. I go back to the time when the AMC Eagle was called a crossover, and there was controversy about that classification at the time
"Crossover" is a more modern class of vehicle that didn't exist when the AMC Eagle was around.
A cat is not a dog because "my definition makes it a dog"
Last edited by SW20S; Jul 27, 2025 at 10:43 AM.
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From: DFW
SL63
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S65
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Colorado
'21 AMG53 wDPP & ARC, 19 GLC300 - Former-03 C240,2 ML BlueTecs,20 GLE450 E-ABC,15 Cayenne D,17 Macan
They refer to FWD and RWD platforms, respectively.
The MLB platforms are more robust. Other manufacturers have similar platform nomenclature, with their RWD platforms being the more robust, as well.
With the associated higher towing capacity.
I agree with them.
As I said above, I think RWD/FWD platform is more indicative of towing capacity than "SUV" or "Crossover."
You can use your own monikers if you like.
I think the VW group and mine conveys the concept more accurately.
TLDR: a RWD platform is more robust and will tow better than a FWD platform.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,030
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From: Colorado
'21 AMG53 wDPP & ARC, 19 GLC300 - Former-03 C240,2 ML BlueTecs,20 GLE450 E-ABC,15 Cayenne D,17 Macan
No s***. Tired of personal attacks from blowhards; hoping some actual knowledge will quiet the rabble.
Hard to compete with Ye Olde Confirmation Bias, though.
Another definition worth "looking up." But nope that would imply actual thought process and possibly Larnin' about thangs.
Maybe I'll spell Mercedis wrong and start a whole new tirade.🤣🤣🤣
Hard to compete with Ye Olde Confirmation Bias, though.
Another definition worth "looking up." But nope that would imply actual thought process and possibly Larnin' about thangs.
Maybe I'll spell Mercedis wrong and start a whole new tirade.🤣🤣🤣
Last edited by mikapen; Jul 28, 2025 at 01:04 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
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Posts: 7,030
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From: Colorado
'21 AMG53 wDPP & ARC, 19 GLC300 - Former-03 C240,2 ML BlueTecs,20 GLE450 E-ABC,15 Cayenne D,17 Macan
Today many sources do call them the "original crossover,' but that's a more recent construct. I can't remember when that started.
Their AWD capabilities made them pretty capable rigs. The viscous coupling worked really well.on hard surfaces, and better on ice than straight 4WD.
Last edited by mikapen; Jul 28, 2025 at 07:17 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Maryland
2024 S580
You might investigate the MQB and MLB platforms from the VW group.
They refer to FWD and RWD platforms, respectively.
The MLB platforms are more robust. Other manufacturers have similar platform nomenclature, with their RWD platforms being the more robust, as well.
With the associated higher towing capacity.
I agree with them.
As I said above, I think RWD/FWD platform is more indicative of towing capacity than "SUV" or "Crossover."
You can use your own monikers if you like.
I think the VW group and mine conveys the concept more accurately.
TLDR: a RWD platform is more robust and will tow better than a FWD platform.
They refer to FWD and RWD platforms, respectively.
The MLB platforms are more robust. Other manufacturers have similar platform nomenclature, with their RWD platforms being the more robust, as well.
With the associated higher towing capacity.
I agree with them.
As I said above, I think RWD/FWD platform is more indicative of towing capacity than "SUV" or "Crossover."
You can use your own monikers if you like.
I think the VW group and mine conveys the concept more accurately.
TLDR: a RWD platform is more robust and will tow better than a FWD platform.
GLE and GLS are crossovers on car style unibody construction. Like it or not.
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From: Maryland
2024 S580
I read what you're saying just fine lol, what you're saying is just bull****, thats why every single person posting disagrees with you to the point of laughing at how absurd you are.
Last edited by SW20S; Jul 28, 2025 at 02:48 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Colorado
'21 AMG53 wDPP & ARC, 19 GLC300 - Former-03 C240,2 ML BlueTecs,20 GLE450 E-ABC,15 Cayenne D,17 Macan
I agree with them.
Try reading my posts. Or maybe ask for help, If it's difficult as it appears.
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2021 GLS580 | 2011 ML350 BlueTec | 2009 Pontiac G8 GXP
I think the industry is confused over the term "crossover" as well. It used to refer to the segment of vehicles that were essentially cars with a little more ground clearance and typically an AWD system of some sort. Put a GLE/GLS next to a Mazda CX-5 and see what the average person call the GLE/GLS vs the CX-5. You could probably do the same with a GLE and GLE Coupe and get the same results. No the GLE/GLS/X5/X7 are not BOF vehicles but I doubt anyone would call them "crossovers" either. I will give you that unibody vs BOF is a more firm definition but it's also not something the average person understands. They will understand the difference between a slightly lifted car and a full size SUV.
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From: DFW
SL63
Sathinas, you agree with this? I don’t. I don’t want to be included in this version of every single person. I think Mikapen has made some very valid points about towing, at a much greater depth than I have ever drilled down into. My towing is limited to a 2,000 lb load with about a 100lb tongue weight. I for one was enlightened by some of the information Mikapen was willing to share, regarding towing.
Last edited by MB2timer; Jul 28, 2025 at 04:04 PM. Reason: -n+t
