300C v. C55
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,155
Likes: 20
From: Southern, CA.
V12-Biturbo
Originally Posted by zoink
Dude... chill out 
On the street, anything can happen.... slow car beats or "beats" fast car... I should put a quote there as to distinguish people who claim victory over someone who does not even know he is racing...
Kind of the experience I had when an STS or CTS passed me when I was cruising along local road.... I knew he was next to me for a while and did not know he asked for a race... he slowed down and passed me very fast (he must've floored the car) and shortly after, the blinkers turned on
hope he was not claiming victory 
Or.... playing catch-up is also common.... I typically know whether my car is faster or slower before I actually pass...
On the street, anything can happen.... slow car beats or "beats" fast car... I should put a quote there as to distinguish people who claim victory over someone who does not even know he is racing... Kind of the experience I had when an STS or CTS passed me when I was cruising along local road.... I knew he was next to me for a while and did not know he asked for a race... he slowed down and passed me very fast (he must've floored the car) and shortly after, the blinkers turned on
hope he was not claiming victory Or.... playing catch-up is also common.... I typically know whether my car is faster or slower before I actually pass...
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,645
Likes: 2
From: San Diego
2002 C32 Black/Charcoal
Originally Posted by NOTKTS
Ahh... look what the ricker's up too now
In any case, thank you. You have made the whole C55 vs 300 question much clearer.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,753
Likes: 0
From: York, PA
2003 C230K Sport Coupe, 1986 190E 2.3
How is it hard to believe that all cars are not built equally! Maybe the C55 was not built quite to snuff. Maybe the 300C was built above par! Also remember that there are many conditions that can affect a short little race as well. Maybe the guy in the AMG just filled up! Maybe he had 100lbs of luggage in the trunk! Anything is possible and HP numbers and 0-60 times and 1/4 mile numbers do not mean ***** in the real world! Personally I believe the guy beat the C55 with all his mods. Maybe the C55 guy had the ESP on and was getting power cut while the OP had ESP off and smoked his tires and heated them up a bit for better traction in the long run!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,450
Likes: 1
1989 Toyota Tercel EZ - dyno'd @ 70whp/77wtq
I do believe that all cars are not built equally.... but I don't believe those inequalities affect the true performance.... remember, we trust road-test results from magazines better than what manufacturers claim. Even so, 300C and C55 are from the same parent company anyway.... even some speculate the 300C is just a derived AMG engine, just like speculations about Chrysler Crossfire SRT w/ C32 engine.
I would agree more w/ your statements that there are many conditions that can affect short street racing.... just like my previous posts.... ideally, we should never claim that one car is faster to the other.... or one car is better than the other if there is only one or few short races as the results may be outliers..... we need a lot of data points to make that kind of conclusions... you know what I'm trying to say if you're a statistician
Nevertheless, it almost always makes you feel good if you make a kill. So for most people one data point is enough to make conclusions without knowing or making sure whether the race was impaired, correct?
Anyway, it's a kill story section..... it's just for fun reading and argumentations.
Sorry OP.... if you haven't realized this already
I would agree more w/ your statements that there are many conditions that can affect short street racing.... just like my previous posts.... ideally, we should never claim that one car is faster to the other.... or one car is better than the other if there is only one or few short races as the results may be outliers..... we need a lot of data points to make that kind of conclusions... you know what I'm trying to say if you're a statistician
Nevertheless, it almost always makes you feel good if you make a kill. So for most people one data point is enough to make conclusions without knowing or making sure whether the race was impaired, correct?
Anyway, it's a kill story section..... it's just for fun reading and argumentations.
Sorry OP.... if you haven't realized this already
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 491
Likes: 82
Wow, I never thought I would get that much interest in this thread.
To clear a couple of things:
1. I have never posted a kill on this forum, although I have been around for a number of years. I would not post one unless I thought it was interesting and unless it actually happened.
2. There are at least 100 different reasons why what happened, happened, and I would readily believe any of them. I don't believe (and perhaps I should have phrased it better) that a C55 is a slower car then mine, quite the opposite. I would rather drive a C55 (as I said a number of times already).
3. Chrylsler is absolutely pathetic in the corners and is by no means a Mercedes in terms of performance, luxury, etc., but it does have its straightline acceleration edge.
Finally, regarding dynos and paper figures, etc. My dyno figures are posted in another forum (300cforums.com) during a group dyno day. It is not uncommon for these motors to be underrated from the factory (as is the case with 300C).
Anything can happen in a street race. I have no doubts that another C55 driven by one of you guys would easily take me. I hope that this won't cause another Sl55 v. SL600 17 page thread debating the merits and validity of my statements. :p
To clear a couple of things:
1. I have never posted a kill on this forum, although I have been around for a number of years. I would not post one unless I thought it was interesting and unless it actually happened.
2. There are at least 100 different reasons why what happened, happened, and I would readily believe any of them. I don't believe (and perhaps I should have phrased it better) that a C55 is a slower car then mine, quite the opposite. I would rather drive a C55 (as I said a number of times already).
3. Chrylsler is absolutely pathetic in the corners and is by no means a Mercedes in terms of performance, luxury, etc., but it does have its straightline acceleration edge.
Finally, regarding dynos and paper figures, etc. My dyno figures are posted in another forum (300cforums.com) during a group dyno day. It is not uncommon for these motors to be underrated from the factory (as is the case with 300C).
Anything can happen in a street race. I have no doubts that another C55 driven by one of you guys would easily take me. I hope that this won't cause another Sl55 v. SL600 17 page thread debating the merits and validity of my statements. :p
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
10 Most Reliable Mercedes-Benz Models You Can Buy Used
Verdad Gallardo
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,450
Likes: 1
1989 Toyota Tercel EZ - dyno'd @ 70whp/77wtq
Originally Posted by slk320
I hope that this won't cause another Sl55 v. SL600 17 page thread debating the merits and validity of my statements. :p
and makes Lexani famous
Originally Posted by slk320
2. ... I don't believe (and perhaps I should have phrased it better) that a C55 is a slower car then mine, quite the opposite.
Originally Posted by slk320
3. Chrylsler is absolutely pathetic in the corners. ... but it does have acceleration edge
Originally Posted by slk320
Finally, regarding dynos and paper figures, etc. My dyno figures are posted in another forum (300cforums.com) during a group dyno day. It is not uncommon for these motors to be underrated from the factory (as is the case with 300C).
Ah.... enough on my part to make this thread like Lexani's.... :p I think I have too much time this week..... that's what's good when working from home
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,155
Likes: 20
From: Southern, CA.
V12-Biturbo
Originally Posted by slk320
I have more rwhp then C55...so I am not sure where the "touching" comments come from. I will not touch a W211E55...but a W210 E55 I beat..routinely.
And now your back peddling.. I don't really care about the race w/C55 I agree it could be a # of driver varibles involved, but your backing up your initial claim of victory by ROUTINELY beating W210 55's that have similar perf of C55 makes you look like a fool...No way in hell your little mods, are going to shave off a full second in 0-60.. And your "Under rated factory hp rating story" going to float around here..Your claimed "G-Tech 0-60 5.2 sec" HUahahuahahah Shut it.....
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix
Ricker, your arguements are much less valid than the 300C owners. "Manufacturer claims aren't correct, headers provide less than 5hp on NA engines, your mods won't shave 1 second off 0-60, blah blah blah." He has posted his dyno numbers on another forum to prove the 318 at the wheels before headers and chip. Many modern engines benefit from chip tuning and headers. To say a 5.7L motor with 340hp stock hp will gain 0-5 hp with headers is plain unfounded. A 2.3L motor with 130hp, maybe, but not a massive engine like that. Stock manifolds can be verrry restricting. A C55 engine is obviously already heavily tuned in NA form, it's the 'performance model.' I would imagine a factory 5.7L hemi could benefit from some tuning. His car is easily a stock S500 'assassin.' Maybe that's the root of the disbelief?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,958
Likes: 1
From: Ventura County USA
'06 E55, '05 SLK55, a few others
No, he's dead on. Jet in particular has been proven to put out some worthless crap. I'm not saying every product they make, but: On the Ram truck boards I frequented regularly, it was proven repeatedly that their piggy back "chip" actually LOST performance in 5.2 and 5.9 Rams(still have that performance door stop even though I sold the truck). I know that's not a Hemi, or a 300C, but Ricker is spot on about "claimed" VS actual numbers from numerous mfg. That's how it is. They bank on the fact that you will not dyno before and after to prove them wrong, and if you do, they ask you to read the fine print that says "individual results may vary". Some cars and/or trucks do benefit tremendously from exhaust mods alone, some not at all. Same for chips or "flashes". At 340 HP, the Hemi is not that corked up either. I'm sure there's more there in NA form, but I agree that the specified mods aren't likely to produce those gains, not that it absolutely could not happen. If so, this particular 300 is the fastest one I've ever heard of, and must be much faster than the brand new one I ran on the way home today. Congrats. 
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,155
Likes: 20
From: Southern, CA.
V12-Biturbo
Originally Posted by EuroCoupe
Ricker, your arguements are much less valid than the 300C owners. "Manufacturer claims aren't correct, headers provide less than 5hp on NA engines, your mods won't shave 1 second off 0-60, blah blah blah." He has posted his dyno numbers on another forum to prove the 318 at the wheels before headers and chip. Many modern engines benefit from chip tuning and headers. To say a 5.7L motor with 340hp stock hp will gain 0-5 hp with headers is plain unfounded. A 2.3L motor with 130hp, maybe, but not a massive engine like that. Stock manifolds can be verrry restricting. A C55 engine is obviously already heavily tuned in NA form, it's the 'performance model.' I would imagine a factory 5.7L hemi could benefit from some tuning. His car is easily a stock S500 'assassin.' Maybe that's the root of the disbelief?
2.Eurocoupe, from your list of cars owned I seriously doubt you have little if any practical knowledge on modding 5.7 liter engines or Mercedes...I have been modding trucks & cars for years from an old Ford F-150 to 1999 5.7 Suburban 4x4 to 2001 V-10 F-250 lariat quad cab 4x4 to 69' w/fully built 351W Ford Bronco Dodge Darts, Road Runner, Camaros, ect..ect....
I used to scour over the Truck & car magizines for performance mods, I installed on my various autos from Airaid intakes, Borola Headers, & cat-back exhaust, Paxton Superchargers, Power programers, Cooler thermostats, ecu chips under drive pulleys the whole 9! And the Companies selling these after market mods, would have all these great listed perf hp to gains, the only ones I found that actually were worth 2 ****s was Banks exhaust kit on my F250 v-10 and Banks electric fan conv. and the Paxton Supercharger I had installed on the old 1992 ext cab 4x4 F150 the list goes on..
Everything else I tried had minimal to hardly any gains on non aspirated engines, "Yes I had a few before & after Dynos done" I like to see if I'm getting what I payed for...
Only when tweaking Supercharged or Turbo charged engines can you release some POWER capable of dropping 0-60 times by a full second....End of story...
Last edited by Thericker; Jul 1, 2005 at 07:27 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,958
Likes: 1
From: Ventura County USA
'06 E55, '05 SLK55, a few others
My favorite was the throttle body spacer. They do help some motors, but usually not what they claim. On the magnum motors, they do.............nothing. At least 2 board members actually dyno'd before and after. Nada, zip, zilch. At least that one only cost me $69.95, and I sold it to a guy for $50.00 even after I told him it I didn't think it did *****!!
Edit: That 300 did sound effing good on the pipe! I'd almost give up some HP to have that sound,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,almost.
Edit: That 300 did sound effing good on the pipe! I'd almost give up some HP to have that sound,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,almost.
Last edited by Fast55; Jul 1, 2005 at 07:30 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,155
Likes: 20
From: Southern, CA.
V12-Biturbo
Originally Posted by EuroCoupe
Ricker, His car is easily a stock S500 'assassin.' Maybe that's the root of the disbelief?
While Mercedes reports Stock 2000-2005 S500 0-60 in 6.1 sec.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,155
Likes: 20
From: Southern, CA.
V12-Biturbo
Originally Posted by Fast55
My favorite was the throttle body spacer. They do help some motors, but usually not what they claim. On the magnum motors, they do.............nothing. At least 2 board members actually dyno'd before and after. Nada, zip, zilch. At least that one only cost me $69.95, and I sold it to a guy for $50.00 even after I told him it I didn't think it did *****!!
Edit: That 300 did sound effing good on the pipe! I'd almost give up some HP to have that sound,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,almost.
Edit: That 300 did sound effing good on the pipe! I'd almost give up some HP to have that sound,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,almost.
I did find the Airraid intakes w/K&N filters pretty funny, If I remember correctly we dynoed my 99 burban after install, factory claimed 15-20 at the wheel gain, reality= 5 but it sounded mean..I couldn't believe the intake could make it sound so diff over stock, Co. new this and thought "Oh all the customers will hear this great noise and think I've got a ****load of more power"
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,155
Likes: 20
From: Southern, CA.
V12-Biturbo
Originally Posted by Fast55
My favorite was the throttle body spacer. They do help some motors, but usually not what they claim. On the magnum motors, they do.............nothing. At least 2 board members actually dyno'd before and after. Nada, zip, zilch. At least that one only cost me $69.95, and I sold it to a guy for $50.00 even after I told him it I didn't think it did *****!!
Edit: That 300 did sound effing good on the pipe! I'd almost give up some HP to have that sound,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,almost.
Edit: That 300 did sound effing good on the pipe! I'd almost give up some HP to have that sound,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,almost.
I just made my appt. w/Mech-Tech the S goes under the knife on Aug 1, for her HPS transplants :v
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,958
Likes: 1
From: Ventura County USA
'06 E55, '05 SLK55, a few others
A-1 ticket magnet. Sure is fun though. Big changes in ICE coming up next, but I'm trying to find time to track it before I add another 100 lbs. Then, I still want to find somebody who can fit W211 brakes.
OT but, Zoink, when is the 997 finally gonna hit?
Sure is fun though. Big changes in ICE coming up next, but I'm trying to find time to track it before I add another 100 lbs. Then, I still want to find somebody who can fit W211 brakes.OT but, Zoink, when is the 997 finally gonna hit?
Last edited by Fast55; Jul 1, 2005 at 08:02 PM.
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix
Well there you go again shoving your foot in your mouth....Stock 0-60 times quoted from Chrysler themselves on the 300c are 0-60 in 6.3 sec
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,155
Likes: 20
From: Southern, CA.
V12-Biturbo
Originally Posted by EuroCoupe
Umm... stock 300C times you're using? Isn't that the whole arguement here... your point of 0-5 hp from his exhaust, headers, chip, and intake? This 318whp dyno before chip and headers just isn't chiming with some of us I guess. I'm verrrry confused about you using my list of cars as a support of me not knowing anything about modding cars, including Mercedes... I guess owning a S500 and some old Suburbans that you magazine-shopped for parts for is good enough for me that you know your stuff. My family owns a Mercedes garage in Scottsdale. My father-in-law was an employee of Eurotek AMG here before Daimler bought out AMG. I have more knowledge on the subject than reading magazine articles, thanks.
If your father in law imparted you w/so much AMG knowledge then why are you holding back please....Enlighten me so I may understand your modding wisdom...
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,645
Likes: 2
From: San Diego
2002 C32 Black/Charcoal
Originally Posted by thericker55
Are you just stupid or are you being obtuse on purpose, if you read my post I said among many trucks, I've also modded a Dodge Dart, Road Runner, Camaros, and so on....I believe modding the 5.7 liter engine was in question here, So since your heritage owns a Mercedes garage you should be more learned and pull your head outta your *** for some fresh air! To think before you post this regurgitated crap If your father in law imparted you w/so much AMG knowledge then why are you holding back please....Enlighten me so I may understand your modding wisdom...
If your father in law imparted you w/so much AMG knowledge then why are you holding back please....Enlighten me so I may understand your modding wisdom...
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix
You got me, I guess I'm just stupid. Since I don't know much about modding cars I'll take your word that old Darts, Roadrunners, and Camaros are great references when comparing cars from the 21st century. What kind of chip and intake did you use on the Roadrunner? Vomit, can you explain these good points he is making? Opinions, Holly carbs and Edelbrock intakes aren't making me re-think how badly this 300C should've lost to a C55... and yeah dude, chill out. Go over your fact-based findings for me again, I need the lesson apparently. (Still thinking about my current list of cars meaning I know nothing about modding... Did anyone get that? Engine bored 3.5mm/cyl over, 4-valve heads in place of 2-valve, custom camshafts, custom intake manifold, 3.27 gears, headers, exhaust, etc, etc, etc... I just don't get it...)
(Still thinking about my current list of cars meaning I know nothing about modding... Did anyone get that? Engine bored 3.5mm/cyl over, 4-valve heads in place of 2-valve, custom camshafts, custom intake manifold, 3.27 gears, headers, exhaust, etc, etc, etc... I just don't get it...)
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,155
Likes: 20
From: Southern, CA.
V12-Biturbo
Originally Posted by EuroCoupe
You got me, I guess I'm just stupid. Since I don't know much about modding cars I'll take your word that old Darts, Roadrunners, and Camaros are great references when comparing cars from the 21st century. What kind of chip and intake did you use on the Roadrunner? Vomit, can you explain these good points he is making? Opinions, Holly carbs and Edelbrock intakes aren't making me re-think how badly this 300C should've lost to a C55... and yeah dude, chill out. Go over your fact-based findings for me again, I need the lesson apparently. (Still thinking about my current list of cars meaning I know nothing about modding... Did anyone get that? Engine bored 3.5mm/cyl over, 4-valve heads in place of 2-valve, custom camshafts, custom intake manifold, 3.27 gears, headers, exhaust, etc, etc, etc... I just don't get it...)
(Still thinking about my current list of cars meaning I know nothing about modding... Did anyone get that? Engine bored 3.5mm/cyl over, 4-valve heads in place of 2-valve, custom camshafts, custom intake manifold, 3.27 gears, headers, exhaust, etc, etc, etc... I just don't get it...) So I need to play baby games w/you does a 1999 Suburban, w5.7 liter fuel injected motor not qualify for comparison in this arguement? I put the Airaid intake, and headers, cat-back exhaust, +Power Programmer "same as ecu" on that motor and gave my results...Also modded 2001 F250 w/V-10 motor w/Banks kit.(I've also installed AMG cat-back exhaust &Powerchip programing on my 01 S500) Your current list of cars jibe I made was meant in heavy sarcasam... As far as you knowing about modding a BIG American V-8, Sounds like you don't know jack....Or you wouldn't be going on about these Minor mods on the non aspirated 300c being able to generate enough hp to cause C55, E55, domination GET THIS THRU YOUR HEAD THESE MODS ARE NOT, I SAY ARE NOT C-A-P-A-B-L-E OF DROPPING 0-60 TIMES BY A FULL SECOND...Are we clear yet Rainman
Last edited by Thericker; Jul 2, 2005 at 02:24 AM.
