nknauz

You have a 500, not a 560, but there are different mods to the 560 to give them more juice. we had a 85 i think 500SL. That car was amazing. had to love the euro look with the suspension, and who can have an older benz without european headlamps. I am selling a set from a 560 on ebay right now if anyone is interested. its listed under 126 european headlights.

Im not trying to cause controversy with the 123, its just a project my dad wanted to do for a long time, and when i wrecked a VERY clean 123 he took it upon himself to rebuild the front end and repaint the car....and so on. Its just a project, those of you who want to appreciate it, and understand the name, my grandfather worked on mercedes for 40+ years and my dad 20+ years. there isnt any mercedes before the time of computers they cant fix or fabricate.

99% of all the parts on the 123 are mercedes factory parts, obviously the exhaust pipe had to be special and theirs is too expensive anyway. To mount the engine took two small spacer and arms off different motors. when the hood is open the car looks stock. The comment about putting a small block in it, thats what we did to my 83 cj-7.

Vasir

so keeping up with a clk55 (you said it a couple posts up) means you dominated a clk55? i still have a hard time believing you..not calling you a liar. but A) the story changed B) you really havent told us what you did to the motor and C) if its true, its a modded car vs unmodded car. dunno...

still wanan race you though, win or lose.

egxpimp

the 500 motor is a 117.963 and the 560 is a 117.968 depending if its euro or not / later version ( i think thats right). I dont have the 117.963 in the car, its in my garage resting-- i have a diffrent engine in my car heehehe i was thinking of going with an E55 amg...but i didnt (talked to my mechanic) anyways the mods i listed are the same for both engines-trust me on this. BTW my car is euro to the bone--its thristle green to ( available only in germany)

nknauz

dominated was also extravagant but the 240 did dominate because it was ahead, and it is a kill story. i understand it came out sounding huge, well a 123 and a clk 55 is going to sound huge anyway you put it.

the motor is a stock 5.6 litre mercedes motor. no modifications. All mercedes parts. mercedes headers. mercedes down pipe. straight pipe and some mufflers after that.

I reveiwed the post and didnt find anywhere i mentioned the words "keeping up with" i said about the same speeds, but this was just a little stoplight merge battle anyway, on one of pretty much the maiden voyages of the car. We can debate back and forth, im not 100% sure what the car can do, but i plan to find out this summer. The car does not see salt and only gets driven here and there. So as soon as the salt clears and the tracks open, and the car is dialed in and has new axle shafts, we will see what it really puts down.

The clk was on the gas, you could hear the motor,

I would like to have to car go up against some people just for the heck of it, see how good the car actually came out. Its an interesting concept and the computer numbers are impressive. Like i said im hoping that the computer doesnt lie. the butt dyno thinks the car is pretty quick.

The hp game is all good and dandy but you have to think about gearing. you can take a clk55 for all this matters and put a 4 series gear in the rear and kill anything but not have a very high top speed. The top speed on the 240 is questionable and may be the only thing that hinders the quarter mile time.


If the car only does a high 13 or even worse.. its stil an awesome concept to have a V8 in the small body of an 80's style e-class.

I guess i should have just introduced the car as a 560E in the forums. then the critisism would have been to a minimum. There are tons of variables that could have happened, but the 240 came out on top against the 55 on that given day. we'll see what the future has for the car

egxpimp

Nice, keep us posted on the project. If you want some 'free hp' let me know so i can give you diagramd and give you dyno graphs of what some members have found with just tweaking a few things here and there-of course with all MBZ parts. enjoy your nice car- it looks great !

p.s. show those clk 55 amgs what the w123 can do !

Improviz

Still wouldn't keep up with a CLK55 in a fair race. Trap speed just isn't there. Let's suppose, just for the sake of argument, that your car's curb weight is the same as a CLK55, and that you're producing 275 horsepower. You're *still* down around 100 horsepower, and a gear. You might trap in the mid-hi 90's, but to hang with a CLK55 with 275 horses, you'd need a curb weight of 2750 pounds.

No, it's not the same speed, nor is it faster, if he was hanging with you after you got the jump; it's slower. Let's look at two scenarios, with you getting a 1/2 second jump. I'm using a 13.5 second 1/4 for his car, roughly the average for a 208. If he hung right with you after this, it means that he's 1/2 second faster, because in a time-distance race where he's already given up 1/2 second, he's not going to close the gap if you're running a 14.2 or better.

Conversely, if you were faster, say a 13.0, *and* got a 1/2 second jump, you'd have slaughtered him, by ten lengths or so.

Well, you did say that first you'd dominated him, then later changed it to even-steven-with-a-jump, ya know... I don't doubt that you won, but "dominated" is hardly the word....shoot, I beat a Z06 up to 90 mph once, but that was in the launch (he spun like a ****), and I know better to think that I "dominated" him.

SL BRABUS

560 is a strong motor......what make the car kick *** is a good 4 speed tranning.......not like the new 5 speed lazy tranning........even the AMG quickshift is still lazy..........

Militant-Grunt

CLK55's are not that fast to begin with. I find this story believeable. From a start to 60 a CLK gets only 3 car lengths on my ML.

Improviz

Fast enough to blow you into the weeds:

Motor Trend tests ML55: 0-60 in 6.24 sec., 0-100 in 16.48 sec.

Motor Trend tests the CLK55: 0-60 in 4.8 sec, 0-100 in 11.5 sec, 0-100-0 in 15.9 sec.

So, a CLK55 will get from 0-100 and back to a complete stop before your ML will hit 100.

Who's your daddy?

Shoot, a 330ci will beat your numbers, and I have those things for breakfast.

Vasir

clk55 is not that fast to begin with? what? Its pretty darn fast. its not the fastest of course, but its still quick enough to take on a lot of cars out there on the road still. especially when you go at it from 40mph+

drive a 55, and you will be like many of the other people saying 'oh man that car is crazy with the torque' my friend who used to be my auto shop teacher was even amazed by how responsive it is for being an automatic and how its pretty damn quick for being a almost 6 year old car.


liek i said last time..i stand my ground..lets hit the tracks. i want a video of this more than anything, win or lose.

Holson

Sweet! That's an awesome 123! I would've put the motor in a coupe body I suppose but hey! the sedan is more of a sleeper Keep the DIESEL badge..

Seriously though..

Where did you get the 4.x:1 rear end from?

What about transmission? 4-Speed Auto from the 560?

AMG did a similar car I believe, using the 3.8L V8

Josh K

wow...so much bit¢hing. He was ahead of the CLK and for an 80's era Benz to be ahead of a newer AMG model, I would definitely call that domination, even if it was only by a little bit (the insult/injury ratio is pretty high lol). It would be like a chihuahua bringing down a Rottie; Even if the Rottie got back up, the fact that it was taken down by a chihuahua (even if the chihuahua was from the "909" and on steroids and meth but didn't look like it) is domination. LOL

nkauz, that's a pretty sweet project and a great sleeper. I would be pissed as hell if anything from the 80's kept up with me.

Scoop55

What the...?
Matt, you feeling o.k.?

nknauz

im done trying to state anything. You'd think half the people in this forum were psychology majors the way you pick apart sentences. Everything stated should be re-read 5 or 6 times to make sure that one word can not be taken more than one way. Anyways, we will see how the numbers come out this summer.

We wanted to do a coupe but try to find a clean coupe. this 240 had no rot anywhere to begin with, no sunroof, better rigidity.

A 240 is lighter than a CLK also,
V8(aluminum) is lighter than the Deisel(Cast Iron) motor

The transmission is out of the 560 we stripped i do beleive but it did need a few modifications.



If someone had the motor and the car, it would be a very cheap conversion.

4 series gear, had to do some research but there were a few deisel mercedes that came with them. and the mount for that year mercedes is about the same throughout the board.


about the video im in IL... I know a guy witha CLK but he just bought an (211) E55 and is getting rid of the CLK.. might not have it by the time summer comes around. Ill figure something out. If not, I know a guy with a 210 E55.


Everyone thats picking this apart. I stand my ground.. The 240 dominated the clk. In this situation at that given time, its just what happened. In that situation, my version of dominate would be a 1980 badged deisel out in front of a CLK. Even if the CLK was on the bumper, which it wasnt, the 240 i would say dominated him.

If i was on my bike and a car got in front of me by a bumpers length, he dominated me. Same scenario, fast car, and car that normally takes 2 min to get to 60 mph.

With modern day traction control the clk should have never let the 240 in front in the first place, and there wasnt room to pull away or get car lengths. were talking jump on it at the light and 200ft later your either merged or off in the gravel.

The words can be extreem for some and i could have toned it down for those but i decided not to.

anyways everyone has there different way of looking at it.

This is the last ill mention anything about the CLK, too bad he isnt on the forum, although if i was him i wouldnt speak up for the fact of humiliation.

The motor does not have stock horsepower,
it does have mercedes headers, but not stock 560 headers,
the suction tube you are talking about i would think has something to do with emmisions, which this car, we will leave you to assume there.
Im confused on the linkage, if you are talking about throttle, the stock 560 linkage can be adjusted, i dont know how a SL linkage would be different. Our linkage is mercedes but customized to work with this motor in this chassis.
If anyone thinks they have anything that is an easy mod that we might have overlooked, my ears are open. Everyone has their own secrets. email me at nknauz@comcast.net
I also know a guy that made custom headers for a 560 and the butt dyno can tell the huge difference. The stock heades are VERY restrictive. We will see if a set will fit in the space provided eventually.
the only wiring the motor has is the injection system and computer which mounted in the same location as the cars of that era in the right kick panel.


The car was built so it can still be comfortably driven on the street, A/c is fitted, just needs hoses to complete. The drier is on the opposite side as a 560.

If you didnt know any better, like a police officer on the side of the road, and opened the hood and said officer this is a deisel car, it doesnt go that fast, he wouldnt know the difference except the sound. Most would not be able to tell this motor is custom shoe horned in.

There will be more on this car in the future. we will see how the little beast does. that was our first little altrication on the road, there are no other stories to tell.

The Future Wheels, when we get new rubber. The 500 kinda ate them up.

Improviz

Quoted weight I've found is about 3300 pounds, a whopping 150 pounds lighter than a 208 CLK55--NOT enough to overcome 130 horsepower and an extra gear. And I'm sure that the beefed-up tranny for the 560 is a helluvalot heavier than the tranny that came with the 67 horsepower 240D, so let's see your weigh-in...

And a large V8, aluminum or not, is not going to be appreciably lighter than a small diesel, sorry...

Bull****. Keeping even with someone when you get the jump on him is in no way, shape, or form "dominating" him. You don't understand drag racing at all if you believe this nonsense. Many races are won at the strip not because car A is faster than car B, but because car A got the jump, faster reaction time.

If you get a jump, you've gotten an unfair advantage. And you admitted you got a jump, and even then all you could do is hang with him. If you'd have both gotten on it at the same time, you'd have lost, simple as that.

Dominated isn't dependent upon the year or model, or what a heavily modded car does against a stock one, dominated is synonymous with "killed", "slaughtered", "defeated by buslengths". You misused the word, and cannot simply arbitrarily change the meaning of the word just because you erroneously think it's applicable; it is not. A tie with a headstart is not domination, nor is a tie football game with a seven-point handicap.

Spoken like someone who's never driven one. This car is VERY traciton-limited, and very difficult to launch without lots of time-robbing wheelspin; if traction control engages under heavy spin, it hits the brake AND dials back the power to the engine, which costs you an easy second in a 1/4 mile race. Further, if he had traction control off and nailed it, it can wrap out in first spinning the tires and short-shift into second. Get a clue.

Why, because you, with a jump, managed to tie him for a few hundred feet in a heavily-modded car? Whoop-de-friggin'-do....Pintos are fast with V8's in 'em too, pal.

So what?? As I said, and quoted Edmunds figures for the motor to back it up; this motor has around 130 fewer horsepower than the CLK55. Headers will get you ten to twenty tops...you've still got 80 to go, pal.

Show us a video and a timeslip. The fact that you got lucky means squat in my book. You're not trapping faster than 107 mph with a 238-horsepower motor in a car unless said car weighs 2380 pounds or less, period, end of story, and if you tied him with a jump you damn sure aren't trapping the same as he is.

Physics is physics, and it takes a given force (horsepower) to accelerate a given mass (vehicle) to a given speed in a given distance, and you don't have the force to move that mass. What you have is a car with, at best, about the same weight/horsepower as an E36 M3, with one fewer gear--reasonably quick, but not in the same league as a CLK55.

Vasir

im with you man.

are you sure it wasa a clk55 and not a clk320 or something? you gotta give the 55's some credit man. they are hardly the type of cars to easily win against in a race.

egxpimp

impro if its a euro engine it has 300 hp stock !

you can tune it by EZL resistor as well/headers/cats/linkage/the hose i mention/electric fans for radiotor--all this would make a huge diffs impro. I know your the best when it comes these figures but i know this car pretty good to Impro.

I think if he has all that he can make up the hp. The linkage itself gave gains of 10 RWHP ! and 15 RWTQ !!!

ill post dyno graph


http://benzworld.org/forums/forums/t...start=1&fid=12


i;m f1crazydriver on benzworld


plus like you said its ligher so that makes a diffs....some member here on mbworld stated that 100lbs = 10rwhp i think ? ( E55 211 board)

and

how about the gearing impro ? less shifts = less delay right ? but the gear ratios would also matter...anyways ill leave that up to you since i know your the best at that

Improviz

Hmm, but he didn't say it's a Euro, and what I found was 268 for that motor.

And he's given contradictory statements about the motor: first, he said that the engine was entirely stock:
Then, later, he said it was modded:
Shoot, which is it? Anyway, as I wrote, headers and light mods aren't gonna get this thing up in CLK55 range.

Thanks...I did have a look, but his car dyno'd out at 226 rwhp after the mod, which translates to about 270 or so at the crank...still no threat to a modern-day CLK55.

Ah, well, he was actually stating that he'd put a lower rearend in there (a 4.x:1), which would mean more shifts, not fewer, because the redlines in gears would come up at lower speeds. Also, there's an optimum gearing for any given motor for acceleration; if you go higher or lower than this optimum, your performance actually gets hurt...

Yeah, 100 pounds is about the same as 10 crank hp (not rw), but I'm not convinced that his car with that beefier tranny and bigger engine didn't pick up some weight....

Anyway, I'm sure it's quite quick, but when Road & Track tested the 560SEL, which he claimed was 1,000 pounds heavier, they ran 7.5 seconds 0-60 according to a site I read...I can't locate the test, but the guy who published the numbers is a huge fan, and so I'll take him at his word....so knock a second off of that, and you're still well off of a CLK55.

I'm not trying to knock the car or the engine; in fact, I think it's a pretty ballsy, kick-*** thing to do and give them a big hats-off for having the sack and gumption to create this monster, but the numbers (and as you note, I'm a serious numbers guy ) I'm seeing simply don't gel with his claims of "domination"...I'm sure it's a helluva sleeper, but it's not going to slay the beast.

And, quite honestly, I'd really like to see the numbers this is putting down...I'm sure it's the fastest 240d ever built!! I just don't like my baby getting dissed....

nknauz

www.knauzmercedes.com

I just grew up there. They never gave me the keys to any cars.
- Sarcasm, for those of you who cant tell.

Stock motor, different mercedes bolt on OEM equipment to make the stock motor, fit in the car.
No internals changed, or upgraded.

a 240 transmission is actually pretty beefy in its own right to deal with all the torque.

Your "baby" will be ok.

Im going back to the garage, have fun in your sandbox.

Honduh_guy

Great kill.

Judging from some reactions here, the ego crushing factor works well with that sleeper.

eLemnt | 0ne

I agree... awesome kill mang!

Don't let these other guys mess with you- I hope sometime soon that you can post up a video or something of your car in action; that would be HAWT!

Improviz

You sure don't know **** about its capabilities, that's for sure.

Which goes to show that you're full of it, and so is your kill story. A 238 horsepower motor with 287 ft-lbs of torque isn't going to beat a 362 horse motor with 390 ft-lbs of torque in two cars of comparable weight.

You're claiming that a car with 65% of the horsepower, 73% of the torque, one fewer gear, and weighing 150 pounds less somehow manages to magically violate the laws of physics and manages to accelerate faster.

Oh, give me a fokking break....that engine produced a whopping 62 horsepower...a friggin' cart chain could've handled that lameass motor.

It'll blow your baby into the weeds, without breaking a sweat. A new 330i has more horsepower than you, friend, *and* two more gears, and I eat those for snacks.

Have fun in your wet dreams and delusions.

Improviz

Hey, check this out: a buddy of mine stuck an 200 horse E30 M3 motor into a GMC Pacer, and now he's kicking new M5's asses all over the map. You can believe me and trust me because you read it on the Internet, and nobody ever lies or embellishes on the Internet, after all....

Right??

Oh, and did you know the word "gullible" is not in the dictionary?? It's true; look it up!

Lastly, I've got some great swampland in Florida for sale; guaranteed 500% return on your investment! Send all of your money to Ima Swindler, PO Box 666, Rocky Mountain, GA, 12345 . You can't lose; you saw it on the Internet, after all!!

eLemnt | 0ne

Dude, you are an *******.


Chill the fawk out... I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt- does his car's performance affect you? Is it, in anyway, preventing you or distrubing your daily life?

Stop spending so much time trying to make this kid look bad- he had a story and he shared it with us.


Sheesh

Vasir

Right on Improviz.

you arent giving us the numbers for this whole thing to add up, just a story.

hey tell you what. i raced a ferrari modena, while driving my s320. i heard the engine...so it must have been punching it. i ripped that ferrari a new one!
i think my NAWZ sticker gave me the bigger advantage. oh yeah and the race started when i was one stop light ahead of it.