AndrewAZ

The difference between a 6 second 0-60 car and a 5 second 0-60 car on a race from 0-80 MPH is not very much at most its a car length.

Back when I had my M3 even trying to catch up and beat a car with 100 less HP is not easy when they jump on the power 1/2 to 1 second before you.. It takes a long time and a lot of speed to pass but when you do pass you are going very quick.

Just the other day I had a C5 vett pull out onto the street and go WOT next to me when he was at my back bumper I went WOT in my 328i and at about 80 mph from the initial 50 mph start he had only pulled enough to put my front end at his passenger door. But of course if we kept going he would of pulled and pulled and pulled.

SCM3

This little old "tiny powerband" M3 is looking for an AMG...

FrankW

i'm running away and hiding...LOL

didn't see ur car at bimmerfest this year...

SCM3

Really, you didnt see the fire spitting display? It was at the AA booth smack in the middle.

FrankW

guess I wasn't paying attention much. I got there when the fight broke out...LOL only walked around quickly...

benz_addict

Nice kill.. theres a 330ci over here badged to a M3 (on the wrong side)

I'm about to purchase a 2004 E500 but the only thing people keep scaring me about are the SBC brakes...

tee_tz

Very well put -- and do not ever think for a second that the 335 Coupe can beat the M3. I have 2 friends with both cars who've had that argument over and over - finally they decided to settle it. Let's just say one of them doesn't mind, he's still thinks his 335 is a nice car.

Secondly, on the highway a C32 AMG can probably beat the M3, but on the track, as soon as the roads start to curve, I think even a C55 could have some troubles. BMW's pick up at high RPMs, and secondly, the M3 corners better than any car I know in that class.

Lastly, M3s are now driven by any loser - who mostly don't know how to drive -- probably because it's one of the most popular sport cars (more popular than a C32/C55 - look at the sales numbers).

That being said, Good kill! That doesn't take away from the fact that the E500 is a beast! It truly is.


Tee_Tz.

j944

+1
Sport mode helps as well.

Improviz

Nope, this is false, and easily dispelled by facts. Here are tests of the E46 M3 and the C55 from Sport Auto, with both cars driven by Horst von Saurma on two tracks: Nurburgring and Hockenheim:

C55 AMG Supertest in sport auto 07/2004
Gewicht 1680 kg
0 - 80 km/h 3,9 s
0 - 100 km/h 5,3 s
0 - 120 km/h 7,2 s
0 - 130 km/h - s
0 - 140 km/h 9,2 s
0 - 160 km/h 11,7 s
0 - 180 km/h 14,7 s
0 - 200 km/h 18,3 s
400 m, stehender Start - s
1 km, stehender Start - s
Vmax 250 km/h
100 - 0 km/h (kalt) 37,5 m
100 - 0 km/h (warm) 36,7 m
Nordschleife 8.22 min
Hockenheim, kleiner Kurs 1.18,6 min
Querbeschleunigung 1,1 g
Slalom 18 m 65,4 km/h
Slalom 36 m 122 km/h
ISO Ausweichtest 134 km/h

M3 Supertest in sport auto 12/2000
Gewicht 1584 kg
0 - 80 km/h 3,9 s
0 - 100 km/h 5,2 s
0 - 120 km/h 7,1 s
0 - 130 km/h - s
0 - 140 km/h 9,0 s
0 - 160 km/h 11,4 s
0 - 180 km/h 14,7 s
0 - 200 km/h 18,1 s
400 m, stehender Start - s
1 km, stehender Start - s
Vmax 250 km/h
100 - 0 km/h (kalt) 37,8 m
100 - 0 km/h (warm) 36,4 m
Nordschleife 8.22 min
Hockenheim, kleiner Kurs 1.17,6 min
Querbeschleunigung 1,1 g
Slalom 18 m - km/h
Slalom 36 m 123 km/h
ISO Ausweichtest 136 km/h

On the faster track, the two cars tied. On the slower track, the M won, but by a margin of victory so narrow that it is clearly a driver's race on any track.

And keep in mind: the M has an extra gear, is a manual transmission car, has a limited slip (the C55 does not), and has wider tires on the rear. Yet despite all of those advantages, the C55 is right there with it.

Put an LSD on the C55 and 255's on the back, and who would win??

Roundel

While you're at it, add 30 more hp to the M3 to even the playing field and who'll win?

559EVO

Buy it, its a great car with power to have fun and room for a family.

Improviz

Umm, hate to bust your bubble, but Euro M3 doesn't have 30 fewer hp than the C55. Further, it is considerably lighter than the C55, so weight/hp advantage is nil.

Try again.

transferred

His point was you're talking modded vs stock. Not a fair comparision.

Anyway, Euro M3 is 338bhp and does *feel* slightly quicker than the US spec though not enough that I mind.

That's a power difference of 24bhp so his 30bhp wasn't exactly way off. Tq is incomparable (262 US and 269 Euro vs 376lb/ft for C55). However, as you said power/weight is similar so it's a moot point if the M3 driver can drive.

Improviz

No, what I was pointing out was that the track numbers of the M3, stock, are only marginally quicker than those of a C55, stock, even though the M3 is equipped with a) a limited slip diff; b) a six speed manual or smg as opposed to a five speed auto; c) wider tires; and d) 211 pounds less curb weight.

That is four pretty substantial advantages to be giving up, and yet the C laps quite close to the M. In particular, having no limited slip would hamper the C greatly, as its inside tire would be unloaded during heavy cornering, and thus the car would be very subject to spin from this tire--this alone constitutes a huge disadvantage, let alone the others.

And this was my point: the M is faster not because it is the Greatest Car Known to Man as many Bimmer lovers seem to believe, but because it has a few extra features that give it a huge advantage at a track.

So rather than be dissing Mercedes as many of you are wont to do, I would thank them for leaving this stuff out, because otherwise you wouldn't be able to crow about numbers that practically none of you would ever be able to hit on these tracks anyway.

Per the test I quoted, Euro spec horsepower is 343:
http://www.einszweidrei.de/bmw/m3e46st2000-1.htm
PS - UMin 343 PS - 7900/Min
Nm - UMin 365 Nm - 4900/Min
Gewicht 1584 kg

That's 19 horsepower. However, as I pointed out, the M3 is considerably lighter than the C55. As quoted above and previously, the M3 weighed in at 1584 kg, which is 3485 pounds, compared to the C55's weight of 1680 kg, which is 3696 pounds. This is a difference of 211 pounds.

So, for the C55 we have: 3696 pounds / 362 = 10.21 pounds/hp, while the M3 is 3485 / 343 = 10.16 pounds/horsepower. Which is, as I said, inconsequential, and is borne out by the test numbers I posted, wherein the M3 was tested slightly faster, again helped by its limited slip diff's superior launch capabilities.

Right...but the limited slip, 10mm wider rears, extra gear and better gearing, and lighter weight help it out. Lucky for you guys Mercedes' bean counters seem to have more input than their engineers!!

ultraseven

While we are at it, add 170 hp to the oh so minute Lotus Elise to even the play field and see who'll win?

transferred

Improviz, I think I've got you on a fact!

The 343 "horsepower" is actually PS and that works out as 338 bhp just like the C55's 367 PS works out as 362 bhp.

I know what you're saying about the belief that too many M3 drivers think theirs is "the Greatest Car Known to Man." It's highly annoying. However, until the RS4 came along we did dominate the class

559EVO

No just throw in a Lotus exige S , it has the same motor as the elise but supercharged pushing hp to 220 versus the 190 that the elise has.Priced at 56,000 puts it in the same price range but will beat both the C55/M3 AT THE TRACK..HAHA

transferred

I would hope so. It sounds like a lawnmower and is about as practical as one too.

Improviz

Bling bling, we have a winner!

Yeah, yeah, I spaced...anyway, if you divide the weight/hp out, they're still virtually identical, so my earlier point still stands!

Hah! In my book, ya gotta have a V8 to dominate! I'm actually eyeing that new one, will see after I drive one, although I'm not a huge fan of the interior on the new 3 Series...still, you never know, and with a V8 it will have eliminated one of my major gripes! But I'm not in any rush, still love mine!

BenzBoy12

Automobile dyno'd a 335 (I think it was a stick) and it put down 300 at the wheels, and like 310 ft. lbs., so it is definatly making more than the M3. And yeah, there are so many people who drive an M that don't know how to drive/shift. Just watch out for those 335s, they are quick. Nice kill!

Improviz

Really??? That's over 350 hp crank! Do you have a link to that? I'd love to read it.

Wonder if stockers actually being sold at dealerships are dynoing that hot....

ItalianStallion

Yes, I've read the same article. It was from a reputable automobile magazine website, they had an article how they dyno'ed 335's and they were getting around 290whp, one of them hit 300whp. The tq was very high too. Something that really impresses me is that with just some minor exhaust modifications and a ECU program (its a box that is removable and puts the car back to stock whenever you want) you can get the car to go over 400bhp and 470tq.

That car is the real deal, keep your eyes open.

BenzBoy12

Here you go guys: http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...i_dynamometer/ I read anohter one as well, and I thought it was from Automobile as well, and it said that it put out 299.something, after repeated runs. This must be what ItalionStallion is talking about. Either way, these engines are crazy powerful, seems like the Bavarians are now seeing the light of FI. AMG is still king, though.

Improviz

Damn, yeah, that's interesting....well, with that hp it should trap at 105-107 depending upon weight, pretty impressive if it's evident in the actual production examples (not that BMW (or Mercedes, for that matter) would ever, ever think of giving journalists a ringer or anything! )

Guess I'll find out whenever I run one of 'em, assuming he's stock!

I do like that new 3 Series coupe, though....looks nice, although I'm (as always with the 3 series) not a big fan of the interior....good materials, etc (except for the leather), but just doesn't look on a par with the price. But that motor can make up for a lot of interior ills, lol.

BenzBoy12

Just imagine the 335ix, with all wheel drive it could really be a screamer at the track. Actually, I think I read a review of the ix, and 0-60 was like 4.9 Imagine when new we start seeing turbo kits for this. Definatly will keep the 55k's on their feet.