GMBALL

Has anyone ever raced this vehicle? How fast are these modern diesels?
I recently saw one accelerating and it just flew off.
Haven't really seen any diesel vehicles going that fast?

Carl Lassiter

The world's best diesel. 3 liter twin turbo 282bhp and 428lb/ft. Gets a real world 35mpg. 0-60 5.9 and limited to 155. 6 speed auto only. At $10/gallon that's what I'd be driving too.

GMBALL

I am considering it basically, this car really makes sense.
What is the point of having a thirsty 550i when you can buy this thing which has twice less consumption and full tank range is twice bigger.

TemjinX2

i would say in europe, you can't really go wrong with diesel

Addicted2Speed

I honestly don't understand why there are no 335d/535d's in the US. Not to mention great fuel consumption, these cars have almost 500lb-ft torque with ecu tune!

TemjinX2

because in the US, diesel cars are more expensive to start out with then petrol cars, maintence costs are slightly higher and diesel is usually $0.20 more expensive then premium. So most people don't want to pay the added cost up front to wait 4-5yrs to make up the difference.

Europe's different because the government taxes the crap out of petrol to make it more expensive then diesel to force people to use diesel.

GMBALL

Actually in Europe is petrol now less expensive than diesel, by a big amount!

TemjinX2

yeah your right, i didn't know it changed. Then why not go with the petrol? Wouldn't the lower cost of super offset the mpg gains from diesel?

AMG S55

Diesels make sense here because our fuel is taxed to stupid levels. I get 40+ mpg from my Audi A4 3.0 TDI, whereas I would be getting high 20's from the 3.2 petrol version. The performance difference is so small, that there is no point in the 3.2 petrol.

Sorry for talking about Audis on a Mercedes forum, but thats the best example I can come up with!

Untertürkheim

Diesels have a much lower cost to service anywhere in the world. The higher price of diesel is a result of price manipulation.

Untertürkheim

The 535d is just a toy compared to an E/S 420CDI.

Carl Lassiter

Not really. The 3liter provides nearly as much tq but far better economy. Is an extra 1.2L giving just 20hp worth it at 10mpg worse economy?

Untertürkheim

Nearly as much torque, are you kidding?
The HP increase is nearly 30 (28), but the torque difference is huge:

BMW: 580 newton meter = 427.786 045 42 pound foot
MB: 730 newton meter = 538.420 367 52 pound foot

velvet fog

The 335d is now available in the US, I just got an email from BMW inviting me to come in and see it.

TopGear did a segment on the 535d, I bet you could find it on YouTube.

TemjinX2

this isn't true...in the short term, diesel has a higher maintence cost because there's a larger volume of oil in the engine, fuel filters and water separators need to be serviced more often compared to petrol engines.

In the long term, diesel maintence would be cheaper since they have better durability, say maintence costs over the 4-5yr+ range.

There is also a higher upfront cost on diesel engines compared to petrol.

Most people in the US usually only keep there cars for around 3yrs though.

Militant-Grunt

To answer your question: Top Gear compared a 535d to a 545i

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Fg1EhBB1PQ

Untertürkheim

Comparing the MB 320 diesel to a 350 gasoline, the diesel will have lower maint costs throughout. The cars have nearly the same oil capacity, while the diesel does not have spark plugs.

TemjinX2

i think its only really worth it if your going to keep the car for more then 4yrs. The economy of the diesel doesn't start to make up for the difference in the upfront cost until usually your fourth or fifth year of ownership..given an average driving mileage. if you drive a lot more then it makes sense to go with a the diesel.

i dont think diesel will really catch on in the US unless diesel is around the same price as gas or cheaper.

Untertürkheim

In the US the 320 diesel is only $1000 more than the 350 gasoline, that money should be more than made up within a year on fuel economy.

GMBALL

Perhaps in terms of luxury, not in terms of performance. Stock vs stock I would say 535d wins.

GMBALL

Thanks!

Untertürkheim

Well, luxury is clearly towards the E, but why do you think the 535d would win in performance? The E420 has airmatic and should handle pretty well with the AMG package, not to mention more power and a much better automatic.

GMBALL

Look, my A5 is a little bit faster than 535d. But I have 3.0TDI engine that is modded up to 206KW and 600NM.
I have raced 535d and from 60 to 120MPH I got him by one car length. On the other hand I have also raced W221 S500 with 388BHP and again from 60 to 120MPH we were dead. From 120 up to 160MPH he was only few inches ahead of me.

If S420CDI is not faster than S500, 535 would smoke it. Based on my experience. I don't know about E though, it might be lighter and therefore faster.

Untertürkheim

Wow, your A5 sounds like nice. I was not comparing the S to the 5, I would compare the S to a 7 and E to 5.

GMBALL

Yes, I was comparing S to 5, because it was based on my experience. Doesn't really matter anyways! From what I have seen on YouTube, 535d is very impressive.