E55/SL600/E63: No comment, really...
05-17-2009, 11:10 AM
#26
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2020 Audi R8 V10, 2016 AMG GTS, 2018 E63S Edition 1, 2018 Porsche GTS Cab, 2012 C63 BS
that was me in her car making the signs... Harry's car was running strong enough to take the initial lead but clearly the top down hurt him as he reached higher speeds along with the 5 speed gearing vs. the 7 speeds of the E63.
Good Mexico runs either way-- Harry close your top and get a chip, things will be different for sure. If you had heat soak you wouldnt have come close to Sun. Props to you for being self aware, cool vids!!!
05-17-2009, 12:03 PM
#27
Nice runs guys and gals. Wish I would've made it down for the meet but instead I was hanging out in 95-100 degree weather having my car dyno tuned. When do you guys plan on having another meet?
Did Benzgal or Sal show up?
As for the Lady AMG and Sun racing, I'm sure Sun would pull on her with him having the mods he has. Not sure what Lady AMG has but she would probably need quite a bit just to hang. Either way I'm very jealous I couldn't be there
. I would love to join you guys in the Mexico runs and see how my car compares.
To all that was out having fun in Mexico
!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for sharing.
Did Benzgal or Sal show up?
As for the Lady AMG and Sun racing, I'm sure Sun would pull on her with him having the mods he has. Not sure what Lady AMG has but she would probably need quite a bit just to hang. Either way I'm very jealous I couldn't be there
. I would love to join you guys in the Mexico runs and see how my car compares.To all that was out having fun in Mexico
!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for sharing.
05-17-2009, 01:42 PM
#28
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SL600
Simple answer: Aerodynamics, as in "bad aerodynamics of SL with top down." Yes, the sedans had a window or two open. However, there is a huge difference between having a convertible top down and having a sedan window open. Moreover, the aerodynamic impact increases exponentially as speeds increase. The video shows the SL getting pulled progressively faster by the 55/63 as the speed increases.
The SL lost as badly as it did because running high speeds with the top down is rougly like running with a dragster parachute in-tow. Even with the top up, the SL may have still lost, but it would have at least been closer.
Takes me back to my old Mustang 5.0 vert
. I ran it with the top down against a Supra. From the dig we were dead even. However, as speeds increased, he started walking away from me progressively faster. I then put the top up and we did the same run. We stayed dead even to the end. By my estimate, at 100 MPH having the top down was costing me about 50 HP worth of accelerating ability.
The SL lost as badly as it did because running high speeds with the top down is rougly like running with a dragster parachute in-tow. Even with the top up, the SL may have still lost, but it would have at least been closer.
Takes me back to my old Mustang 5.0 vert
. I ran it with the top down against a Supra. From the dig we were dead even. However, as speeds increased, he started walking away from me progressively faster. I then put the top up and we did the same run. We stayed dead even to the end. By my estimate, at 100 MPH having the top down was costing me about 50 HP worth of accelerating ability.
hahaha regardless of variables involved and all that science stuff, was a fun day!
05-17-2009, 01:44 PM
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that was me in her car making the signs... Harry's car was running strong enough to take the initial lead but clearly the top down hurt him as he reached higher speeds along with the 5 speed gearing vs. the 7 speeds of the E63.
Good Mexico runs either way-- Harry close your top and get a chip, things will be different for sure. If you had heat soak you wouldnt have come close to Sun. Props to you for being self aware, cool vids!!!
Good seeing you as always Vic, lovin' the new GTR.
05-17-2009, 01:46 PM
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Nice runs guys and gals. Wish I would've made it down for the meet but instead I was hanging out in 95-100 degree weather having my car dyno tuned. When do you guys plan on having another meet?
Did Benzgal or Sal show up?
As for the Lady AMG and Sun racing, I'm sure Sun would pull on her with him having the mods he has. Not sure what Lady AMG has but she would probably need quite a bit just to hang. Either way I'm very jealous I couldn't be there. I would love to join you guys in the Mexico runs and see how my car compares.
To all that was out having fun in Mexico!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for sharing.
Did Benzgal or Sal show up?
As for the Lady AMG and Sun racing, I'm sure Sun would pull on her with him having the mods he has. Not sure what Lady AMG has but she would probably need quite a bit just to hang. Either way I'm very jealous I couldn't be there
. I would love to join you guys in the Mexico runs and see how my car compares.To all that was out having fun in Mexico
!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for sharing.Anyways, yeah too bad you couldn't make it! What did your car dyno?
05-17-2009, 07:47 PM
#31
. My baseline run was around 466 rwhp and 518 rwtq which was running lean and the best LET could do at this time was match it with much better A/F. In all I'm happy and the next trip down LET is going to take care of me.The good thing about this is that during winter of this year my car dynode 470-480 rwhp on a dynojet and ran a best of 11.49. This was done in 50 degree weather. The track will do the talking from here on out and we'll see how this tune does next fall.
05-17-2009, 07:54 PM
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V12-Biturbo
Only you would race w/top down to triple digits lol...Major detraction as speeds increase as others have noted, also your IC pump is obviously failing to loose to an E63 @ any speed (also very common w/600/65 models-tranny/engine mounts prolly collapsed, happened to mine w/tuned 335i/C6 races, after dealer fixed totally diff car) I've raced CL63/E63/SL55/E55 (E55 modded) Supercharged C6 Vette/Z06 C6 vette etc.. the CL63 was destroyed from roll-on, the E63 taken from a dig & roll-on, was much stronger than the heavier CL63 but still no contest even @ higher speeds it just fell back multi-lengths...
There were multi E55 modded un modded present, when I ran dead even door to door w/Supercharged C6 Vette (2) races from about 25mph-140ish. None of the E55's ran but saw it, Mario's tuned 335i ran even w/MJ50's stg 2 E55 multiple times, Mario also ran w/my 600 vs SC'd C6 & was left by multi lengths that same day.
Anyone w/modded-stock E55/63 etc wanna play
sounds like a fun day!
Akademiks Capo regime V12 TT membership is under review/possible termination - racing triple digits w/top down
There were multi E55 modded un modded present, when I ran dead even door to door w/Supercharged C6 Vette (2) races from about 25mph-140ish. None of the E55's ran but saw it, Mario's tuned 335i ran even w/MJ50's stg 2 E55 multiple times, Mario also ran w/my 600 vs SC'd C6 & was left by multi lengths that same day.
Anyone w/modded-stock E55/63 etc wanna play
sounds like a fun day! Akademiks Capo regime V12 TT membership is under review/possible termination - racing triple digits w/top down
05-17-2009, 08:47 PM
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Only you would race w/top down to triple digits lol...Major detraction as speeds increase as others have noted, also your IC pump is obviously failing to loose to an E63 @ any speed (also very common w/600/65 models-tranny/engine mounts prolly collapsed, happened to mine w/tuned 335i/C6 races, after dealer fixed totally diff car) I've raced CL63/E63/SL55/E55 (E55 modded) Supercharged C6 Vette/Z06 C6 vette etc.. the CL63 was destroyed from roll-on, the E63 taken from a dig & roll-on, was much stronger than the heavier CL63 but still no contest even @ higher speeds it just fell back multi-lengths...
There were multi E55 modded un modded present, when I ran dead even door to door w/Supercharged C6 Vette (2) races from about 25mph-140ish. None of the E55's ran but saw it, Mario's tuned 335i ran even w/MJ50's stg 2 E55 multiple times, Mario also ran w/my 600 vs SC'd C6 & was left by multi lengths that same day.
Anyone w/modded-stock E55/63 etc wanna play sounds like a fun day!
Akademiks Capo regime V12 TT membership is under review/possible termination - racing triple digits w/top down
There were multi E55 modded un modded present, when I ran dead even door to door w/Supercharged C6 Vette (2) races from about 25mph-140ish. None of the E55's ran but saw it, Mario's tuned 335i ran even w/MJ50's stg 2 E55 multiple times, Mario also ran w/my 600 vs SC'd C6 & was left by multi lengths that same day.
Anyone w/modded-stock E55/63 etc wanna play
sounds like a fun day! Akademiks Capo regime V12 TT membership is under review/possible termination - racing triple digits w/top down
But that's what happened-- as much as it kills me to say it, BenzoBoi and Lady_AMG have faster cars then you or I. Or at least mine, on that day. The videos not lying.
Pardon my top out, but me and Kady had fun without it tearing *** through u-turns!
I'll take my car to the dealer and have them check it out, but like Vic said if it was some sort of problem like that I wouldn't of been near BenzoBoi...
05-17-2009, 09:35 PM
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SL600
It's hard to hear much. So yeah, I do have a copy. PM me your email and I can email you the original if you really want to hear it.
05-17-2009, 09:39 PM
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V12-Biturbo
Triple digits speed with the top out is great-- feels like I'm flying! Course in my 600 it's just really slow
But that's what happened-- as much as it kills me to say it, BenzoBoi and Lady_AMG have faster cars then you or I. Or at least mine, on that day. The videos not lying.
Pardon my top out, but me and Kady had fun without it tearing *** through u-turns!
I'll take my car to the dealer and have them check it out, but like Vic said if it was some sort of problem like that I wouldn't of been near BenzoBoi...
But that's what happened-- as much as it kills me to say it, BenzoBoi and Lady_AMG have faster cars then you or I. Or at least mine, on that day. The videos not lying.
Pardon my top out, but me and Kady had fun without it tearing *** through u-turns!
I'll take my car to the dealer and have them check it out, but like Vic said if it was some sort of problem like that I wouldn't of been near BenzoBoi...
pm'ing you my # we can meet in Calabasas halfway from Santa Barbara (my home)
Last edited by Thericker; 05-17-2009 at 09:47 PM.
05-17-2009, 09:42 PM
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V12-Biturbo
You hear nothing. That's why I put in the music lol! It was actually kinda boring... since my top was out, all you hear is the wind; except with Lady_AMG when she walked away from me.
It's hard to hear much. So yeah, I do have a copy. PM me your email and I can email you the original if you really want to hear it.
It's hard to hear much. So yeah, I do have a copy. PM me your email and I can email you the original if you really want to hear it.
Sounds like your 600 is really messed up
05-17-2009, 09:47 PM
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It's not that you can't hear my exhaust, it's just the camera didn't pick it up. All the wind noise cancels out any exhaust notes it might have otherwise picked up-- no surprise it kind of caught the E63s roaring V8 lol
05-17-2009, 10:14 PM
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Ricker, I'd love to run your 600 and record the results. I'll PM you my number so we can meet up and do some runs! But, it wouldn't be fair regardless, don't you have an air filter or something-- and 19s? Regardless, PM is on the way!
It's not that you can't hear my exhaust, it's just the camera didn't pick it up. All the wind noise cancels out any exhaust notes it might have otherwise picked up-- no surprise it kind of caught the E63s roaring V8 lol
It's not that you can't hear my exhaust, it's just the camera didn't pick it up. All the wind noise cancels out any exhaust notes it might have otherwise picked up-- no surprise it kind of caught the E63s roaring V8 lol
as far as my 19's go it wouldn't matter since you raced (2) AMG's sporting 20's as well (apples to apples) My CAI has yet to be Dyno proven, & judging how badly you got pulled from a roll-on by E63, it shouldn't happen even to a BONE stock SL600.(SL600 puts down 530-560 rwto in stock form, the E63 puts down 380-390 RWTO @ best in stock form, from a roll this dif is huge) the gearing loss due to 20"s is nearly negated @ speed, what size rear tires are you using? I have 295/30 I'm certain you're using a tire w/smaller "aspect ratio" width to fit 20"wheels IE /25/ vs /30/ = nearly same overall tire height.
Last edited by Thericker; 05-17-2009 at 10:29 PM.
05-17-2009, 10:49 PM
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E63 AMG & CLK350
Akademik's SL puts down more torque than my E63, so he would definitely have me off the line and even from a rolling start. I do, however, have more top end than he does, not to mention the 7 speed transmission.
Although we joked, I trust that Harry did not just let me win. I would actually be really disappointed if he had because I'm not the type that accepts handouts.
Mercedes Benz SL600
HORSEPOWER: 493 hp @ 5.000 rpm
TORQUE: 590 lb.-ft. @ 1,800-3,500 rpm
Mercedes-Benz E 63 AMG
Power bhp (kW) at RPM: 507(378) / 6800
Torque lb-ft (Nm) at RPM: 465(630) / 5200
At the end of the day, we had a great run and I would absolutely run Harry again in a heartbeat.
Oh, and I also have heavy-a$$ 20" wheels.
Although we joked, I trust that Harry did not just let me win. I would actually be really disappointed if he had because I'm not the type that accepts handouts.
Mercedes Benz SL600
HORSEPOWER: 493 hp @ 5.000 rpm
TORQUE: 590 lb.-ft. @ 1,800-3,500 rpm
Mercedes-Benz E 63 AMG
Power bhp (kW) at RPM: 507(378) / 6800
Torque lb-ft (Nm) at RPM: 465(630) / 5200
At the end of the day, we had a great run and I would absolutely run Harry again in a heartbeat.
Oh, and I also have heavy-a$$ 20" wheels.
05-17-2009, 11:15 PM
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V12-Biturbo
MB Perf quotes are severely underrated in STOCK form on the SL600, Dyno's @ 450-480 RWHP 530-560 RWTO w/18% driveline loss .82/450-480 = 548-585 crank HP & 646-682 crank torque.
E63 Dyno's 390-430 RWHP & 380-390 RWTO = 475-524 Crank HP & 463-475 Crank Torque the 7 speed gearing doesn't make-up this deficit when racing to top end.
I can supply multiple Dynojet records from both models if you need further proof on where I gather my data from
I ran both CL63/E63 when bone stock from dig/roll it wasn't even close, how bout you meet up w/Akademics & I next Sunday for some runs?
E63 Dyno's 390-430 RWHP & 380-390 RWTO = 475-524 Crank HP & 463-475 Crank Torque the 7 speed gearing doesn't make-up this deficit when racing to top end.
I can supply multiple Dynojet records from both models if you need further proof on where I gather my data from
I ran both CL63/E63 when bone stock from dig/roll it wasn't even close, how bout you meet up w/Akademics & I next Sunday for some runs?
Last edited by Thericker; 05-17-2009 at 11:20 PM.
:zoom :
05-17-2009, 11:36 PM
#43
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Akademik's SL puts down more torque than my E63, so he would definitely have me off the line and even from a rolling start. I do, however, have more top end than he does, not to mention the 7 speed transmission.
Although we joked, I trust that Harry did not just let me win. I would actually be really disappointed if he had because I'm not the type that accepts handouts.
Mercedes Benz SL600
HORSEPOWER: 493 hp @ 5.000 rpm
TORQUE: 590 lb.-ft. @ 1,800-3,500 rpm
Mercedes-Benz E 63 AMG
Power bhp (kW) at RPM: 507(378) / 6800
Torque lb-ft (Nm) at RPM: 465(630) / 5200
At the end of the day, we had a great run and I would absolutely run Harry again in a heartbeat.
Oh, and I also have heavy-a$$ 20" wheels.
Although we joked, I trust that Harry did not just let me win. I would actually be really disappointed if he had because I'm not the type that accepts handouts.
Mercedes Benz SL600
HORSEPOWER: 493 hp @ 5.000 rpm
TORQUE: 590 lb.-ft. @ 1,800-3,500 rpm
Mercedes-Benz E 63 AMG
Power bhp (kW) at RPM: 507(378) / 6800
Torque lb-ft (Nm) at RPM: 465(630) / 5200
At the end of the day, we had a great run and I would absolutely run Harry again in a heartbeat.
Oh, and I also have heavy-a$$ 20" wheels.
It's okay. My car is currently getting diagnosed... we'll see what comes up. Ricker over here is an expert, if need be I trust he's pointing me in the right direction. If the car comes back healthy, it comes back healthy.
05-17-2009, 11:44 PM
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This problem though, let's assume it is IC Pump failure, wouldn't it only show up after numerous runs? When the car would be suffering from heat soak?
05-17-2009, 11:53 PM
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V12-Biturbo
IC pump can be intermittent, before total failure 1 run or just high mid-day temps can heat soak the krap outt've it (600/65's have an even bigger issue w/heat soak than the 55 Supercharged motors)
05-18-2009, 12:42 AM
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E63 AMG & CLK350
05-18-2009, 01:19 AM
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Nah, heat soak is bs. My passenger said it too, and I heard it being mentioned after the race BUT, if you remember:
A) I went with you out for a ride before I raced BenzoBoi, and we were tearing *** left and right-- still the 600 ran decently well awhile later while racing BenzoBoi.
and B) Before I raced you, it was cooling down for at least 15-20 minutes.
And lastly, I hardly think "heat soak" works something like a parking brake. I think this so-called "heat soak" is some excuse someone dreamt up once they started losing.
Bottom line, I think both your cars deserve props.
A) I went with you out for a ride before I raced BenzoBoi, and we were tearing *** left and right-- still the 600 ran decently well awhile later while racing BenzoBoi.
and B) Before I raced you, it was cooling down for at least 15-20 minutes.
And lastly, I hardly think "heat soak" works something like a parking brake. I think this so-called "heat soak" is some excuse someone dreamt up once they started losing.
Bottom line, I think both your cars deserve props.
On a hot day you're loosing a sizable amount of power at the wheels. Time to get some meth injection.
05-18-2009, 03:40 AM
#48
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Just an update:
I spoke in depth with Sean through PM about my vehicle, and have come to the conclusion my car isn't running perfectly. The symptoms I'm experiencing are quite similar to the ones his 600 had before it was fixed. I'm scheduled to see the dealer within the next week or so and will report any findings I have here.
To be quite honest, I'm hoping it comes back perfect-- if it's what Sean is saying, the bill is going to be... neat, to say the least.
I spoke in depth with Sean through PM about my vehicle, and have come to the conclusion my car isn't running perfectly. The symptoms I'm experiencing are quite similar to the ones his 600 had before it was fixed. I'm scheduled to see the dealer within the next week or so and will report any findings I have here.
To be quite honest, I'm hoping it comes back perfect-- if it's what Sean is saying, the bill is going to be... neat, to say the least.
05-18-2009, 07:41 AM
#49
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no
This platform cannot make multiple back to back runs without losing a sunstantial amount of power, add in Cali heat and a black paint job and after multiple runs I bet you are down over 30rwhp. IC pump can be an intermittent problem, if the IAT's get to high the turbos bleed boost to keep temps down. Stock for stock the E63 and SL600 should be about neck and neck, it shouldnt walk you. Get yourself a cheap CM30 pump and have your benz dealership put it in and wire it to be on all the time, the stock pump only comes on when the ECU tells it to. For less than 200 bucks you will be back on the road and wont have to worry about the pump issue anymore.
This platform cannot make multiple back to back runs without losing a sunstantial amount of power, add in Cali heat and a black paint job and after multiple runs I bet you are down over 30rwhp. IC pump can be an intermittent problem, if the IAT's get to high the turbos bleed boost to keep temps down. Stock for stock the E63 and SL600 should be about neck and neck, it shouldnt walk you. Get yourself a cheap CM30 pump and have your benz dealership put it in and wire it to be on all the time, the stock pump only comes on when the ECU tells it to. For less than 200 bucks you will be back on the road and wont have to worry about the pump issue anymore.
05-18-2009, 07:56 PM
#50
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Interesting thread...
Harry, you need to save the top down floss mode for the blvd. Aero can have very adverse side effects when your racing.
Check your ic pump, it may be going out. Mine cut out once in awhile then it just about quit on me. I replaced with cm30 and it's fine now.
Kady, Great run!! Congrats on your first confirmed kill.
I hear rematch!
Harry, you need to save the top down floss mode for the blvd. Aero can have very adverse side effects when your racing.
Check your ic pump, it may be going out. Mine cut out once in awhile then it just about quit on me. I replaced with cm30 and it's fine now.
Kady, Great run!! Congrats on your first confirmed kill.
I hear rematch!
