CLK550 VS C6
06-24-2010, 11:56 AM
#51
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09 G8 GXP M6
But you can compare the G8GXp with the LS3 in terms of mileage.
13/20
3995 lbs.
Very close.
Almost more of a comparison for the Eclass than the C.
13/20
3995 lbs.
Very close.
Almost more of a comparison for the Eclass than the C.
06-24-2010, 12:04 PM
#52
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09 G8 GXP M6
Additionally, with respect to the relative "antiquated" design of the LSx series engines, consider the folowing.
EPA rates the 2009 C63 at 13.3 ton of carbon/yr.
2009 G8 (6.0) - 10.4 ton.yr
2010 Camaro (LS3, similar weight to the C) - 9.8 ton/yr.
EPA rates the 2009 C63 at 13.3 ton of carbon/yr.
2009 G8 (6.0) - 10.4 ton.yr
2010 Camaro (LS3, similar weight to the C) - 9.8 ton/yr.
06-24-2010, 02:27 PM
#54
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Charger SRT-8
To answer your question about weight and size, the M156 weighs in at 439lbs and the LS7 at 458lbs. I don't have the link on me where I read about the physical dimensions being smaller but you could probably find it on google.
On reliability the M156 is a closed deck design which increases the rigidity and durability of the cylinder walls.
The rigid bedplate design is the same used in Mercedes-Benz Motorsports race cars and is much stronger than individual caps in any given application. A rigid bedplate eliminates cap walk and reduces wear on the main bearings for high RPM engines like the M156. I'm not saying that you can't have a high performance engine that uses caps, just that they will wear quicker and are more prone to failure than a bedplate design. Why do you think they rebuild those 5000hp race cars after every race?
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On reliability the M156 is a closed deck design which increases the rigidity and durability of the cylinder walls.
The rigid bedplate design is the same used in Mercedes-Benz Motorsports race cars and is much stronger than individual caps in any given application. A rigid bedplate eliminates cap walk and reduces wear on the main bearings for high RPM engines like the M156. I'm not saying that you can't have a high performance engine that uses caps, just that they will wear quicker and are more prone to failure than a bedplate design. Why do you think they rebuild those 5000hp race cars after every race?
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Interesting about the weight. I'll have to search. The bedplate design vs. end cap is also interesting. I wonder if an overall higher-rpm "life" of the motor dictates the bedplate design vs. the end caps.
And are bedplates a higher expense and more weight?
Last edited by Deuuuce; 06-24-2010 at 02:33 PM.
06-24-2010, 02:35 PM
#55
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They certainly add more weight, but I'm not too sure how significant the expense is on a mass produced engine or why GM decided not to go that route with the LS7 (it may be due to reasons other than weight and cost, such as reusing LSx tooling)
06-25-2010, 12:55 AM
#56
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His mama. Traded y0 mama in because she was squeaking.
i have a 2008 c6 ls3 z51 manual 6speed coupe. when it was stock i shatt all over any 550 benz like it was a joke. the same with every 55 i came across and the 63's were even worse.
my car now has 625hp with a camshaft and fullbolt ons finished by famous cartek in nj. any amg boys wanna see the back of my borla exhaust?
try that with your crappy amgs... i have had mercedes and they are the worst cars ever made and you gotta spend so much to get them modded.
my car now has 625hp with a camshaft and fullbolt ons finished by famous cartek in nj. any amg boys wanna see the back of my borla exhaust?
try that with your crappy amgs... i have had mercedes and they are the worst cars ever made and you gotta spend so much to get them modded.
Yawn?
You're supposedly (and I say supposedly, because I don't see a dyno sheet of this power from you) driving a car that puts down 625 HP, which weighs what, 3700??? lbs? And you're proud about beating cars that weigh almost 1500 lbs more than your rattle trap?
I'd rather take a "slower" AMG that will massage my nuts on the highway (at my choosing, not at the suspension's choosing), over a uber powerful Government Motors rattle trap. But, so long as you like it, you go with your bad self.
As far as saying that Mercedes costs more to mod than a Vette... I'd give you a primer on supply and demand, but I fear you wouldn't understand it.
06-25-2010, 01:54 AM
#58
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His mama. Traded y0 mama in because she was squeaking.
Yes. Rattle. I have NEVER been in a GM that didn't rattle when it hit a pothole.
And Apparently, according to google they weigh less, around 3200 lbs.
And Apparently, according to google they weigh less, around 3200 lbs.
06-25-2010, 07:35 AM
#59
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09 G8 GXP M6
Are you a "it's how fast you go" sort of person. Someone that enjoys pushing the limits of your vehicle on the track or strip occasionally.
Or are you a "it's how you go fast" person, to quote you, who want's his "nuts" massaged. (no slam intended, just made for good press
)I always find myself in these sorts of choices and trade-offs. For me, it always goes like this (and ends of costing me dollars).
1) Buy a cool street car
2) Enjoy said cool street car
3) Get the bug to mod and track said cool street car
4) Figure dollars needed to properly track car
5) Calculate exposure if street car is wadded up in a ball
6) Find good used race car
7) Buy race car
8) Sell street car for tow vehicle
9) Tire of driving tow vehicle every day
10) Start looking to sell race car and buy cool street car
Repeat cycle.
06-25-2010, 09:43 AM
#60
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And maybe that sums up the complete debate.. to quote an earlier post
Are you a "it's how fast you go" sort of person. Someone that enjoys pushing the limits of your vehicle on the track or strip occasionally.
Or are you a "it's how you go fast" person, to quote you, who want's his "nuts" massaged. (no slam intended, just made for good press)
I always find myself in these sorts of choices and trade-offs. For me, it always goes like this (and ends of costing me dollars).
1) Buy a cool street car
2) Enjoy said cool street car
3) Get the bug to mod and track said cool street car
4) Figure dollars needed to properly track car
5) Calculate exposure if street car is wadded up in a ball
6) Find good used race car
7) Buy race car
8) Sell street car for tow vehicle
9) Tire of driving tow vehicle every day
10) Start looking to sell race car and buy cool street car
Repeat cycle.
Are you a "it's how fast you go" sort of person. Someone that enjoys pushing the limits of your vehicle on the track or strip occasionally.
Or are you a "it's how you go fast" person, to quote you, who want's his "nuts" massaged. (no slam intended, just made for good press
)I always find myself in these sorts of choices and trade-offs. For me, it always goes like this (and ends of costing me dollars).
1) Buy a cool street car
2) Enjoy said cool street car
3) Get the bug to mod and track said cool street car
4) Figure dollars needed to properly track car
5) Calculate exposure if street car is wadded up in a ball
6) Find good used race car
7) Buy race car
8) Sell street car for tow vehicle
9) Tire of driving tow vehicle every day
10) Start looking to sell race car and buy cool street car
Repeat cycle.
06-25-2010, 03:49 PM
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06-25-2010, 06:11 PM
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Charger SRT-8
But a daily driven (street tires, pump gas) 9 second Honda Civic? Highly, highly doubtful. And in street trim, it won't run 9s either. Maybe, what, low 11s?
If you can direct me to a link or article, I would be curious to read it.
06-25-2010, 07:00 PM
#64
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vms has no clue what he is talking about lawl. Go get a Hayabusa first and then retell me the story of how you will smoke any Vette on the forums... might as well get a casket while you are at it.
You think you can just hop on a bike like that and start beating 11 second cars? Hate to break it to you, but it's no automatic where you mash the pedal and pretend you are enjoying the driving experience 
You think you can just hop on a bike like that and start beating 11 second cars?
Hate to break it to you, but it's no automatic where you mash the pedal and pretend you are enjoying the driving experience
06-25-2010, 11:13 PM
#65
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c63 guys especially jons ahahhahaha..... you think your slow c63 can take my 625 hp z51 6speed.... please come try... if your so confident heres 5grand ill be 1 buslength and worse by 100mph and climbing.
like kindafast said stone age tech hahah yea right thats why there making the most power out of any engine type from any other car manufacturer in production. have fun with your m156
.... your driving a 450hp C class aka BIATCHESS car lol ahaha
like kindafast said stone age tech hahah yea right thats why there making the most power out of any engine type from any other car manufacturer in production. have fun with your m156
.... your driving a 450hp C class aka BIATCHESS car lol ahaha
06-26-2010, 01:32 PM
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i meant to say comparing any factory mercedes engine to factory gm engine and allowing them to be modded as much as you can that the gm engines make much more power.
you cant squeeze that much more power out of the mb engines maybe 100 or 200hp max if you lucky.
06-26-2010, 05:14 PM
#69
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E55, GLS450, GL63, GLE350
There are more Chevy engines produced than Mercedes engines. The Chevy engines and components are much cheaper to replace by virtue of an economy of scale. With the greater production scale and much simplier design, it makes them less expensive to modify and parts cheaper. Fewer people are willing to push the envelope on the Mercedes engines because of the expense to replace if something goes wrong.
You can get the HP from a Mercedes engine but it will just cost more money, The auto tranny does not help things because it greatly limits the power that it can handle. You would need to greatly modify the tranny or convert to a manual trannny and clutch. Cost to modify the Mercedes to the 1,000+ hp is extremely expensive and complex. We won't even mention having to crack and modify all the electronics to cope with and fuel the the increased power.
Ask Renntech if they are limited to 100 or 200 hp. They will tell you that the limit to the hp you want will be your wallet.
06-26-2010, 05:22 PM
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You can get the HP from a Mercedes engine but it will just cost more money, The auto tranny does not help things because it greatly limits the power that it can handle. You would need to greatly modify the tranny or convert to a manual trannny and clutch. Cost to modify the Mercedes to the 1,000+ hp is extremely expensive and complex. We won't even mention having to crack and modify all the electronics to cope with and fuel the the increased power.
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this is what i meant to say....
Last edited by Hercules86; 06-26-2010 at 05:25 PM.
06-26-2010, 05:23 PM
#71
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No, that is completely incorrect. An engine is an airpump. They operate the same way but get there with with different components. You pump in 7.25 psi of boost and, given proper fuel and timing, you will increase the power by 50% and at 14.5 psi you will double the power. It's not rocket science.
There are more Chevy engines produced than Mercedes engines. The Chevy engines and components are much cheaper to replace by virtue of an economy of scale. With the greater production scale and much simplier design, it makes them less expensive to modify and parts cheaper. Fewer people are willing to push the envelope on the Mercedes engines because of the expense to replace if something goes wrong.
You can get the HP from a Mercedes engine but it will just cost more money, The auto tranny does not help things because it greatly limits the power that it can handle. You would need to greatly modify the tranny or convert to a manual trannny and clutch. Cost to modify the Mercedes to the 1,000+ hp is extremely expensive and complex. We won't even mention having to crack and modify all the electronics to cope with and fuel the the increased power.
Ask Renntech if they are limited to 100 or 200 hp. They will tell you that the limit to the hp you want will be your wallet.
There are more Chevy engines produced than Mercedes engines. The Chevy engines and components are much cheaper to replace by virtue of an economy of scale. With the greater production scale and much simplier design, it makes them less expensive to modify and parts cheaper. Fewer people are willing to push the envelope on the Mercedes engines because of the expense to replace if something goes wrong.
You can get the HP from a Mercedes engine but it will just cost more money, The auto tranny does not help things because it greatly limits the power that it can handle. You would need to greatly modify the tranny or convert to a manual trannny and clutch. Cost to modify the Mercedes to the 1,000+ hp is extremely expensive and complex. We won't even mention having to crack and modify all the electronics to cope with and fuel the the increased power.
Ask Renntech if they are limited to 100 or 200 hp. They will tell you that the limit to the hp you want will be your wallet.
.
06-26-2010, 09:13 PM
#74
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06-27-2010, 12:36 AM
#75
Interesting debate here
Having owned both I can find strong and weak points with both marques. A Corvette is a great American muscle car, and the newer ones are surely great leaps for GM in design and engineering, and sorely overdo I would add.
After all the chest thumping is over with they are very different cars built for very different purposes, but the one fact that can't be ignored is initial and long term quality. Someone commented about the rental car grade interior of the 'Vette, which has been noted by anyone who has ever sat in one. Even more disturbing is the rear bumper cover which has so little support that you can press on it anywhere and watch with discomfort as the entire thing flexes almost to the point of snapping. Not bashing here, just stating facts. Like I said I have owned both, but my 'Vette had almost as many vertical miles on it as it did horizontal, so for me, I stay far, far away from General Maintenence. Some people have had reliability issues with their MBs as well, but GM is known for it across every brand they make and that will have me looking elsewhere for kicks.
Having owned both I can find strong and weak points with both marques. A Corvette is a great American muscle car, and the newer ones are surely great leaps for GM in design and engineering, and sorely overdo I would add.
After all the chest thumping is over with they are very different cars built for very different purposes, but the one fact that can't be ignored is initial and long term quality. Someone commented about the rental car grade interior of the 'Vette, which has been noted by anyone who has ever sat in one. Even more disturbing is the rear bumper cover which has so little support that you can press on it anywhere and watch with discomfort as the entire thing flexes almost to the point of snapping. Not bashing here, just stating facts. Like I said I have owned both, but my 'Vette had almost as many vertical miles on it as it did horizontal, so for me, I stay far, far away from General Maintenence. Some people have had reliability issues with their MBs as well, but GM is known for it across every brand they make and that will have me looking elsewhere for kicks.
