03E55AMG

He did race a modded Busa, I mean there is always a shoulda,coulda,woulda excuse. A bike is a bike that weighs around 300lbs vs a car that weighs 3,100 more pounds. That is the difference of power/weight.

03E55AMG

That is a nice video, however that bike WOULD NEVER EVER hook in the street not even in 5th gear, would still get smoke by a HIGH HP Supra.

Marcus Frost

You guys are so funny.

Do you know why a bike is $9000 and a Supra is $50000? Our Supras weigh 3500lbs for christ's sake! They have things like heating and air conditioning, roofs, complete frames, trunks, doors, etc.

Bikes are ****ing two wheels with a a motor, a seat, a chain, brakes, and shocks.

It's NOT ok to compare a modified car to a stock bike, however according to you clowns it IS ok to compare a 475lb bicylcle to a 3500lb full interior car.

There are full street Supras running 8.20s on DRAG RADIALS weighing in at 3300lbs that can drive around town without issue. Bikes, on the other hand, need 50 foot long extensions to run those kind of ETs which give them the turning radius of a NASA Space Station. REAL streetable

Bikes are NOT untouchable.

-m

Rotty

I am not saying they are untouchable, I am saying that there are only a few cars that can touch them. If you wanted to run a modded supra against a turbo Busa, who would win. That is my point. There was a guy that had a Lamborghini in Hawaii that was posting that he would race any bike from a 80 mph roll for $10,000. As soon as somebody called his bluff, he backed out. Some of you guys are smarter than you seem. You guys are talking about a 540 hp cobra vs. a 600 cc bike. There are stock bikes from the factory that can run the 1/4 in mid 9's. So after you spend your $55,000 or $60,000 to try and beat our $10,000 bikes, good luck and congrats if you do......You are still out 50 g's

03E55AMG

BWahahahahahhahahahahahahaahhahahahaa ! !

03E55AMG

That's when it comes into play,

"GOTTA PAY TO PLAY" ya know..

Marcus Frost

And you are still on a 475lb bike that will rip your body to shreds if you wipeout at 35mph, and I'm in a full interior 3500lb car with trunk space, room for four, a good stereo and a real good chance at living if someone side swipes me...

We have to spend big money because we make big power... not 300-400hp and think we're cool because we do it on 475lb bikes, 1000-1200hp - REAL power. You just keep thinking we're wasting our money and you are cool because your little $9000 scooter is fast.

-m

Rotty

I doubt it will rip our body to shreds. I have gone down at the track 3 times, 1 high side and 2 low sides, walked away from both of them without a bruise. I respect it when cars can get some big horsepower, but their aren't many of you out there, you have to admit. We always have 540 hp cobra, mustang gts, and endless ricers wanting to race, and not even a challenge. I would love to race a high hp supra in the quarter, it would be fun. We do put 300-400 hp with mods, with a massive power to weight ratio. You might be a little upset because some of these bikes have handed you your @ss a couple of times.

SomeGuy

Marcus Frost
You want a tuned bike?

Hayabusa Turbo Race System

Garrett GT35/40 Turbo
External waste gate
Blow valve
Large fuel injectors
Water injection
Race dump pipe
Windows based Turbo computer 30lb map sensor
Capable of 600 hp
Priced @ $9,000.00

Available now
http://www.totalkaosperformance.com/...rbo/turbo.html

Looks pretty streetable to me!

There are some vids but you need to sign up to see them.
But I did that for you user/pass = MBWorld / videos


I guess you haven't seen Ghostrider? Its a guy on a turbo Gixxer 1000 who does burnouts infront of cops, and then runs...

http://firefly.ibk.se/~linus/gr2/GW_trailer1.mpg
http://firefly.ibk.se/~linus/gr2/GW_trailer2.mpg
http://firefly.ibk.se/~linus/gr2/GW_trailer3.mpg

He's riding a turbo Gixxer 1000, power seems controlable to me!

Some amazing vids
http://firefly.ibk.se/~linus/ghost/ghosttrailer.mov
http://firefly.ibk.se/~linus/ghost/ghostrider2.mov

Hmmm, 600 HP motorcycle, weighing 375 lbs, vs 3300 lbs supra making 850 hp

I wonder who will win... duh... um

Lets see power to weight:
600 : 375 = 1.6 : 1
850 : 3300 = 0.25 : 1

is 1.6 > 0.25... I wonder?

Hmmm, still doesn't answer the question does it?

Lmao, for your info, Ghostrider did 275 mph on a turbo busa making 499 rwhp before he had tire problems, this was verified with radar, gps, and gforce counter. Not km/h mph. 439 km/h if I'm not mistaken.

Before you go thinking I hate cars, I don't. I love them, I love AMGs, luxury, and power, I love Ferraris, for the same reasons, and so on so forth. But for all out performance and that adrenaline rush, it has to be a motorcycle!

SomeGuy

Found a video of the 600 hp busa on the road!
Looks great draggin knee...

http://www.linienmc.dk/mc-uheld/jan12/turbo_busa.mpg

ABsC280

i would quote his other stuff but that would be overkill. this guy just proved that you can still spend 100's of thousands of dollars on cars and still have no clue or respect. sad really...

SomeGuy

Very sad, that is to say he is a sad character.

Marcus Frost

Interesting, no clue or respect. You make assumptions about me not having a clue when nothing I have posted here has been false or fabricated, just facts. I forget more about cars in a day than you probably know about them. I'm not going to get into a debate about my knowledge, but I fail to see how I am clueless yet you guys are the ones whining about how unfair it is to compare stock bikes to cars...

If I spend $250k on a Bentley Arnage that loses to a $20000 stock Camaro Z28 on the drag strip am I still "clueless"? No, money doesn't buy you knowledge or respect. I don't care about making 400hp on a bicycle, and if you cannot make the distinction between the performance capabilities of cars and bikes, then I'm not going to argue with you.

-m

Marcus Frost

You are 19. You have yet to overcome a crackling voice left over from puberty much less know what streetable is. Kevin @ TKP builds some very badass bikes, no doubt about it - but I never denied that to begin with, and everything I have stated to this point still remains. Even with a 600hp bike, you are going to have 1 rider out of 1000 who can put that power to good use. People with 150hp bikes can't even get into the 10s, much less ones with 600hp. It's just not practical.

You have a weak understanding of engineering and physics to think it is as cut and dry as hp/weight ratios with cars and bikes, little one. It's not. You don't even understand the difference between 850rwhp and 850hp, because I have no idea where 850hp came from.

Hayabusa's are gear limited to 199mph stock, but I have heard of them getting into the low 200s. 275mph I'd have to see to believe, only because of the shear physics you have to overcome in order to reach that speed, 499rwhp or not. Busa's have a terrible drag coefficient and with the 275mph winds slamming that bike in the face you start approaching the shear limit of a bike, not because of gearing or horsepower, but just because a bike cannot maintain stability or traction when having those windspeeds slammed at them.

There are people who have done 300mph in all kinds of things, a close friend of mine just did 210mph in his blown viper GTS this weekend when he unfortunately ran out of gearing. Cars do 240mph+ quite easily as well, but the best part is, if you hit a small rock @ 240mph with a bike, you are dead, where even if you blow a tire @ 200mph in a car, you still could live.

Bikes are not the only form of adrenalin rushes out there. Maybe one day when you get older and take a ride in a 1000hp Supra, I want to you to tell me it wasn't an adrenalin rush.

So in closing, little man, I'd just like to say don't speak to me as if I don't know what I am talking about, because I will make you look stupid.

-m

03E55AMG

AMEN ! ! ! ! Nice post Marcus

anerbe

Marcus......

totally right about the drag force vs. power/weight ratio

Nuff Said

SomeGuy

To Marcus:

Wow, make me look stupid huh? You sir have the tact of an elephant, the class of a wild boar, and a very questionable level of intelligence.

You do not know my experience with motorcycles, or cars, nor did you have the decency to ask. I have been riding motorcycles since I was 9. If you had asked this is what I would have told you, for my 16th Birthday I got an R6, then I got another R6 (never dropped the 1st), I have ridden on the street, and various tracks around the world. I do get low 10s or high 9s on a stock 600 in the 1/4 mile. Within a week of riding my 2nd R6 on the street I'd gone through a set of tires and my knee pads were very worn. I wear the edges off my tires and I'm proud of it. The reason I ride 600s is because I love the looks on peoples faces when I pass them on their literbikes, on the inside, at what feels like twice their speed. I know what streetable is, far more than you do. That is unless you can ride an endo (stoppie) for 5 feet, or wheelie a 600 into 3rd gear.

As for physics, it was my minor in university. I'm willing to bet I know a hell of alot more about physics than you do. You on the other hand seem to think that power cannot overcome drag. Stability or control? Have you heard of centripetal and centrifugal forces? Its the concept behind gyros. The faster an object rotates the greater the force resistance it applies to being turned, it's how bikes steer, and its why when you do 160 you can barely turn. The wind forces you are talking about are from directly infront, and do not destabilize the bike. The top speed run I refered to earlier was done on an airstrip, which had been cleared of debris prior to the run. He did experience traction loss due to his tires overheating, and because of that is not going to attempt another run for the record books. (Not to mention the impossibility of it, as the record books require two runs back to back within a short period of time, two runs would cause the engine and turbo to overheat to the point of detonation, combine that with tire risk, and its suicide.) Hayabusas are not limited to 199 gearing stock (you're thinking of the kawi ZX-12R's 186, on the 99 busas people were getting 207's as top speed due to lack of power, not gearing), nor did 'Ghostrider' use stock gearing. I'm not entirely sure what gearing he did use but 2 or 3 up in the front and 2 or 3 down in the back should cover it no? For the record Ghostrider is a MotoGP racer, and is far from inexperienced. If he says he did 275, he did 275.

Lets talk physics for a bit. Drag is related to speed through an exponential relationship that differs for every vehicle.

Drag = coefficient x density x (velocity^2)/2 x AREA
Dont believe me? Would NASA steer you wrong then? http://www.lerc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/drageq.html

The Cd for the busa is .487 vs say .32 for a decently aerodynamic car. Keep in mind a bike's area is about 1/4 the area of a car.

Bike Drag = .487 x d x (275x275)/2 x 1/4
=4603d
Car Drag = .32 x d x (275x275)/2 x 1
=12100d
Since d does not vary...

Gee is that right? It is but check it for yourself. The car needs twice as much power to get to the same speed as the bikes theoretical top speed.
So for a car to do 275 mph it would need 1000hp
For a bike to do 275 mph it would need 500hp
Can anyone here say 'the Bugatti Veyron's speed is so far limited by tires, to 250 mph'?

If you had ANY knowlege of physics you should know this, its practically 1st year stuff.

I do understand the difference between rear wheel horse power and flywheel horsepower (7 to 15% difference in cars, less in bikes due to drivetrain loss). I admit I misread your prior post.

As for cars, don't talk to me about adrenaline rush, or lack thereof. When was the last time you sat in a formula one car? My first time I was 7. Have you ever been a passenger in a McLaren F1 doing a top speed run? What would you say if I told you I have a Gemballa 750 GTR EVO? Do you think its a coincidence that I am on a MB forum? Debadged 2003 CL600 biturbo, chip tuned to 600 rwhp. Have you ever driven a 1500 hp prototype car that weighs in at 2900 lbs? I am not ashamed to admit that I have an affluent background, although I dislike the way you forced me to bring it up. When a car company is considering building a high end car, they call my family, because they know that one or two will end up in my garage. (The fact that I own significant amounts of manufacturer stocks has nothing to do with it ) They also know that my friends will also be buying them. Quite honestly being a passenger in a supra excites me about as much as brushing my teeth. You talk about cars that do not have ultimate performance, that do not have luxury, and that are sad attempts to replicate high end exotics, without the handling, looks, or exclusivity. If you think that a motorcycle that has more hp than a 911 GT2 isnt fast; you have issues

You Marcus are the type of idiot that believes that age should get respect, it doesn't old man. I have done more so far in my life than you will in yours. Learn respect for your betters. One day you just might be calling me boss.

ABsC280

i got your back on this someguy...

let's quickly review some of the truths told by marcus. marcus swears everything he's posted has been fact.

a) bicycle = scooter = motorcycle. he uses them interchangably. stop trying to be a smart azz when your quite the opposite.

b) going down on a motorcycle at 35 mph = ripping your body to shreds. what can i say about this one ... STUPID.

c) i know so much about motorcycles and cars, " if you cannot make the distinction between the performance capabilities of cars and bikes, then I'm not going to argue with you."

then stop posting crap.

it's late and don't have the time to get down to z... peace out.

Rotty

Once again, here we go. The first hayabusa's were not regulated. After I believe 99, they were regulated to 196 mph, stock. They did a run with the wind and against the wind and took the average. As for this subject, talk about what you know, not what you think. I agree, there are many fast cars and bikes, but that is it.

Marcus Frost

Why I continue this conversation is beyond me, but it's 4:30pm and I'm looking for something to do. Class is now in session junior.



I don't care if you were sucking from your mothers tit the first time you rode a bike, that doesn't mean ****. 600hp bikes are almost entirely not streetable. You are basically pointing them forward and holding on for dear life. In order for you to have any reasonable amount of traction and not send your front wheel 45 degrees in the air up to 145mph you have to run an extension the length of Texas.



First off, turbos don't "overheat" to the point of detonation. Secondly, wow, for such a physics whiz you seem to have forgotton your studies of Newton, including his third law of motion that states: if a body exerts a force on a second body, the second body exerts a force that is equal in magnitude and opposite in direction to the first force. So for every action force there is always a reaction force.

This means a bike pushing air at 250mph has wind pushing back at him at 250mph. I spoke to a gentleman a while back who had done 227mph or so at Bonneville and was the one who told me he was doubtful that bikes could ever reach 300mph simply because the incredible counter force being applied back to a bike when it goes over 250mph is beyond the tire's ability to maintain the bike going forward. It's not a question of horsepower, it's a question of PHYSICS.



Hayabusa geared to 199mph:
http://myweb.cableone.net/toddshelton/busaspecs.html



Typical beginning physicist with zero real world experience. I never contradicted any of the information you posted above, as on paper a lot of impossible things should work. You can make all the equations you want, and I really don't even see how this one was relevant, but until you put it into application you will realize that equations are merely theories. If you could calculate a car's top speed, acceleration, etc all on paper why do we have road tests? Why do numbers constantly differ?



WAY off Mr. Physicist. Surely someone with the profound knowledge of you could see how humorous it would be to claim an automotive drivetrain only could have 7% drivetrain loss? Even the new CVT transmissions haven't gotten to that level yet, and they don't have gearsets! The lowest you will see on cars is in the 12-15% range, with it going all the way up to 30% on automatic transmission cars depending on the size of the torque converter.

But what am I thinking, telling you, the MAN WITH A MINOR IN PHYSICS what drivetrain losses are? Obviously I have no formal background in this stuff.

[quote][b]As for cars, don't talk to me about adrenaline rush, or lack thereof. When was the last time you sat in a formula one car? My first time I was 7. Have you ever been a passenger in a McLaren F1 doing a top speed run? What would you say if I told you I have a Gemballa 750 GTR EVO? [quote][b]

Wow, did you need a booster seat? I've had plenty of experiences as well in cars much faster than ANY production car on the planet, including the McLaren F1 or 750GTR EVO. My Supra would destroy an F1 in straight line acceleration (along with many, many other cars) and has a 220mph top speed as well... just because an F1 costs $1,000,000 doesn't mean it's the ultimate adrenalin rush.



Wow, chip tuned! I had a "chip tuned" Audi many years ago. Chip tuning means removing the ECU, mailing it to a tuner, then reinstalling it. Did you do that ALL yourself? Consider me impressed.



1500hp protoype? Sounds like BS to me, but it doesn't matter. To answer your question: Nope, I've driven faster cars that were non-prototypes though. My mommy and daddy aren't big car people, so all the cars I get to ride in aren't because I'm riding on their coat tails. I get to ride and drive in these cars because I understand them, appreciate them, and build them.



Hrm, let me quote myself again here, just to make sure you arne't blind: "Kevin @ TKP builds some very badass bikes, no doubt about it - but I never denied that to begin with, and everything I have stated to this point still remains. Even with a 600hp bike, you are going to have 1 rider out of 1000 who can put that power to good use. People with 150hp bikes can't even get into the 10s, much less ones with 600hp. It's just not practical."

That means I am not only acknowledging they are fast but they are badass too. I did not, however, state they were slow at any point in time.

First off I am 22, but thanks for making an *** of yourself again. I address you as a little child because age is a state of mind, not what is on your birth certificate. Look at our situatoin here, you are obviously acting like a 19 year old, yet you mistook me for an old man. Secondly, you have ridden your parents coat tails more than I have, that is for sure - but have NOT accomplished more than me. Your kissing up in no way makes you better than me, you pompous little ****. You are a ****ing little spoiled brat so typical of the affluent stereotype. Amazing at how high you ride but at how quickly I have yet again make you look like a complete tool who thinks because daddy is buddy buddy with car makers that you in ANY way have this profound understanding for engineering and what it takes to make things work in the real world.

I come from an affluent background myself but unlike you, chose to earn things for myself without bragging to everyone how much mommy and daddy let me ride in their buddies cars. I ride in my OWN acquantance's cars, not ones who fake friendship with my parents because they give them boatloads of money. I'm under the hoods, on the ground, getting my ****ing knuckles cut up. Not cutting $100,000 checks and then having them like me.

It's stuck up, immature, *****s like you that make me realize how stupid money makes people. Thankfully I will never be like you, and I also know you will never be my boss, however class is in session my little pupil and you've just been given lesson #2: what happens when you get in over your head with someone who will make you look stupid.

-m

03E55AMG

That's what Im talking about Marcus...

SomeGuy

Dumbass, http://www.sportsbikerider.com/useru...o%20390kmh.wmv

Stock gearing, 390 km/h ~ 250 mph

Turbo bikes are streetable due to wastegates controling how much boost you have based on gear selection, so 1st, 2nd, 3rd 4th and 5th all have the same torque.

"This means a bike pushing air at 250mph has wind pushing back at him at 250mph." Wow Einstein, congratulations. Did you figure that one out all by yourself? Did you see my drag equations? Oh wait, "You can make all the equations you want, and I really don't even see how this one was relevant". By the way, may I point out that I did not "make" these equations.

"I come from an affluent background myself" Doubtful. You do not speak in an educated matter, you drive flashy cars (as in loud and obnoxious) that do not provide luxury, power or an impression of class, nor do you attempt to keep a low profile. I would accuse you of being nouveau riche, but they tend to prefer luxury. More likly you come from a lower-middle class home, and are sick with envy of anyone who has had a better life.

I called you old man because you called me son, but now I call you idiot boy. You are now on my ignore list.

Have you ever seen a turbo glowing red? Detonation is caused by excessive heat, causing the fuel-air mixture in the cylinders to explode prior to combustion (as in the 4 stroke motor stage, injection, compression,combustion, exhaust), you can reduce detonation by cooling (ie intercooler) or higher octane fuels. Some tuner you are. You have proven your absolute ignorance. May the cars you tune blow up, and may their owners sue you for negligence, bodily harm, and emotional trauma.

Marcus Frost

Resorting to namecalling... tisk tisk junior.

If you knew bikes you would know that the speedo's inaccurancy grows exponentially above 180mph. Do some research.



Incorrect. Exhaust energy depends on load, and load varies by gear. Gears have different ratios, meaning that no, a bike does not make the same power in every gear. This is simple engineering my friend.



That made no sense. You used the wrong physics theories to disprove my theory on top speed and I used the correct ones, in spite of you being the supposed physics expert. Basically, you got shot down.



LOL, here are some pics of my cars.





Both mine, with my name on the title. The Supra totes around town about as loud as a stock 911 turbo, and the E55... well... it's quite the loud and obnoxious car... I'll admit it. I am hoping the W211 E55 or C5 RS6 I'm considering to replace it aren't as bad!!!



Oooh! He called me NOUVEAU RICHE... pardonnez-moi monsieur stupide for not coming off arrogantly enough! I knew spending time with my aunt and uncle in Paris would pay off someday, because I've been able to insult someone in french!

My homes are far from middle class, those I envy are few and far in between, and my life is great, but thanks for asking

I call you son because you act like a little boy, because you are nothing but that... a little ignorant boy. Putting me on your ignore list is the typical little kid thing to do, run away into your little corner to hide from the boogy man!



First off, there is a big difference between detonation/knock and preignition. Of course, you don't have a clue as to how they differ, and I think I've taught you enough today so I just think I'll point out your lack of knowledge on the matter and leave it at that.

Further dismantling your post, I want to say that you should have taken engineering in college junior. You don't see turbos glow red. You see their exhaust housings glow red. That is because they are heated by the exhaust gasses that power them. Those gasses do not go back into the motors, they go out the exhaust pipe. The compressor side, ie "the side compressing the incoming air" (for you beginners) and sending it to the intake manifold does not glow red, ever.

Detonation is NOT caused solely by excessive heat. If you heated up combustion chamber to 50000 degrees it would melt, not detonate. It's uncontrolled combustion from heat and cylinder pressure. Are you taking notes?

Wow, the expert you are and you can only list two ways to merely reduce detonation? Damn, I should take notes. What about ignition timing, spark plug gapping, lowering boost levels, increasing compressor wheel efficiency, piston coatings, camshaft durations, valve lift, exhaust flow, or the other 100 things you can do to prevent it as well?

I don't tune cars for a living, I do it for fun. I've never blown up a car, not even running 31psi through them like my Supra. What cars have you built, aside from of course "CHIP TUNING!!!" your CL600? I'd love to hear about them, but for some reason I don't think any exist...

Keeping making a fool of yourself... I'm enjoying this.

-m

Bikerider

I just couldīnt resist involving myself in this thread. A few reflections that iīve made when i "sloppyread" the thread.

#1. Ghostrider doesīnt ride a GSXR1000R Turbo. Its just a slightly modded 1000R with other exhaust och gearing.

#2. http://www.sportsbikerider.com/user...bo%20390kmh.wmv
The bike on that link is not a turbo Hayabusa. I do believe itīs tuned, but not with turbo. As far as iīm concerned. The maximum output iīve seen for an N/A Busa is 250 rwhp and those doesīnt move like that one do at all. That film has been discussed a few times on different forums where i live (in Sweden) and we have agreed that itīs fake. I mean, look at it. Does it really move that fast? I dont think so.

I have to agree with Marcus and 03E55AMG. A bike is absolutley unbeatable in lower speeds, but in higher speeds there are lots of cars that even match R1s. Itīs just a question of which speed. A Supra like the mentioned is a little bit overkill to beat a bike. Iīm totally convinced that a Supra like those beats a 600cc from 60mph and up if they get traction. Iīve seen a rolling start from around 70Km/h (45mph) between a slightly modded R1 and a Supra that made 10.41 on the qm. The bike pulled away the first 200 meters. The Supra had sevear traction problems at that speed. between 200-300 meters itīs even, but after 300 meters, the Supra comes like itīs been shot from a cannon. I know a few people here that have bikekilling for hobby, but their cars is crazy fast....just like some Supras.

I have tested and filmed some car vs bike myself and the conclusion is that niether a 600 or a 1000cc is unbeatable in high speeds. I do believe that the 600 get smoked above 100mph by a car like the SL/E55 kompressor. If the biker has a passenger, the performance will be heavily reduced.

Btw. High 9s with a stock 600. No way!

Bikerider

Supras are cool and fast, but no spacerockets.

Here is a video with a ~400hp turbobusa. So you smoke that one?
http://www.uponone.com/videos.php?id=134 (LEFTklick)

Maybe i should kill another myth: It needs a very potent car to outhandle a bike on a track if the rider knows what heīs doing.