WowoW

I had a 2000 ML 430 12 months ago, which was a demo from the local dealer. I only used it for 2 months because it lacks the torque which i needed in a busy city. My wife is now pregnant ( which came as a surprise ) and i have to think about getting a SUV again. I already bought a new CLK so i can only afford either an X5 3.0 or ML320. Which one should i choose ?

MusFather

Go for teh X5, especially if you want some kick! It has the low end torque and is extremely fun to drive! Congrats on the new car and coming baby! But defenitly go for the X5, just my opinion


-Musfather

WowoW

Thanks for your tip.

I actually had a RX300 before i bought the ML 430. Then i switched right back to the RX 300 because of the problem i mentioned. I love the RX 300. But since my wife thinks a german car is more safe than a japanese car. I don't have much choice. personally i like BMW more. I had a 2000 328ci before the clk. Its much more of a driver's car than the clk. I bot the clk because i know i wouldn't be driving a coupe after the baby is born, and also because i can get an early delivery. Mine is the first one delivered outside of Germany !

Unlike u guys in Europe and the US, keeping more than 1 car in Hong Kong is very expensive. So i have to keep switching :-)

jswedberg

I'm surprised by "lacks the torque"!

Our ML320, while not a hot rod, goes fine for us. And I admit I tend to favor horsepower

A 430 should rock!

The only time I've noticed a lack of power is above 9000 ft in Colorado. Then I wished I had V8 !

WowoW

its the initial torque i am refering to. ie if u are stuck on traffic and u try to pull fast on the slow lane, u push the pedal down and nothing much happens. then the power comes approx 2 seconds later , at which time u already decided not to switch lane. Compare to a SUV like the RX300, the power comes in no time. That's what i am referring to.

bottedi

That problem (as you describe it) can be adjusted. It is the way the automatic transmission attempts to make the down-shift more smooth. I had the same problem with my 320. Your dealer can make it more responsive. The down-side is that it will also make the shifting more jerky!

Hope this helps.
DRB

timf

Save yourself the risk of suffering from the ML's dubious build quality and get the X5 which overall seems to have far fewer problems.

Crypto

well, if you are expecting a baby, I will definitely go for the ML. The rear suspension of the X5 is quite hard and the rear passengers are getting quite a bumpy ride, and you don't want to see your baby bouncing in your rear view mirror, right? ML is a much smoother ride, and if you want some low end torque, get a ML500

WowoW

Thx guys. I'll arrange a test drive on the X5 this weekend. Personally I like the X5 look more than the face-lifted ML

MusFather

Excellent tell me how it goes man, you are going to love the X5 i promise you that, but don;t get the sport package the ride gets really stiff


-Musfather

Crypto

I can tell you that you will LOVE the X5, cause it drives like a regular 5 series. And it's more aggressive and younger looking than the ML. But in the end you have to think about your kid. I think the ML has a smoother ride, and the back doors are wider and easier to get in with the baby chair. Remember to check if there are baby seat clips (much safer) pre-install in the Bimmer, cause I know the MB (at least the new c-class) has them.

one more thing, congradulation!!

Darkmann

Assuming that the baby is not the "early delivery", why do you think you'll not drive the coupe after the baby is born??? Man I have 3 kids and before them, had a 2 seter 300ZX Turbo. I thought about selling, but never did and don't regret it. Sometimes when I just wan to cruise, my eldest who's 10 never mises a chance. Now, her 5yr old brother loves to have the T-tops down and go for a cruise. They also love the E430, but only when I'm transporting them to school. Oh yes, you'll always find time to cruise in your coupe.

ML Dude

Hey Wowow,

Your my first post, but I had to say something since I'm not a fan of copying bad habits. What I mean is that when BMW sticks a new, raised body on an existing 5 series chassis, they're doing what GM has been doing to trucks and calling SUV's!

Your wife is right about the safety of MB, the ML will be safer because it's designed to be. In fact BMW was claiming that they were #1 in crash test results until it was noted that they only performed better in one type of crash test, the 45degree frontal impact test. As far as side, rear or head-on crash protection, I'd put my trust in MB before other manufacturers.

As far as acceleration, I believe you may be sensing the results of the driver adaptive tranmission adjusting to your driving style. If you are gentle on the pedal most of the time and then want to gun it, well the lag is a feature of that tranny. I wouldn't play with the DAS settings, just make safe lane changes.

JMHO, Ed

timf

It's about not stalling when pulling out into traffic - so avoiding the crash in the first place :-)
It's about not breaking down and being stranded in dubious areas !
It's about having brake pad warning lights which come on BEFORE the brakes are shot.
It's about having PAS which works and doesn't suddenly fail while in a turn.
Sorry, but while the ML is excellent in crash testing it leaves a lot to be desired in other areas of build quality which impact the overall safety of the vehicle.
I'm not saying the X5 is any better or worse - just that from my (and my wifes) personal experiences the ML is not as safe as MB would have us believe.

ML Dude

Hey TimF,

I can't disagree that the ML is probably not the best built MB. I have a CLK of the same year and it doesn't rattle at all even though having a softer chassis. However, when I decided I wanted an SUV for the snow and summer activities, I was hard pressed to find a better design than the ML. I would still be since they are improving the model and correcting the shortcomings that I find in my vehicle.

Let's hope we're wrong and the truck ends up outliving all those converted trucks from GM, Germany and Japan.

Rgds, Ed

timf

Hi Ed,
I agree the ML is probably the best SUV in its price range for off road and adverse weather conditions - but it is let down by the design implementation and the quality of some of the parts used.
I suspect part of the problem with the ML's somewhat patchy build quality is the overall complexity of the design, ie there's just more stuff to go wrong :-)

Thus quality control & QA has to be that much higher if MB is to compete with 'simplier solutions' which are very nearly as good.

Tim

amb9800

I would say that the X5 and RX are SUVs only for the purpose of being able to say it is an SUV. The X5 is not as comfortable daily family car as an ML would be, it's more of a driver-oriented sports truck. The rear seat is very much smaller than the ML and the X5 as a whole is way less usable than the ML is.

Yes, many ML's are plagued by quality problems - little rattles and things, but look at the X5, and if you look at the newspaper, you can see the articles about it spontaneously combusting when its not even on.

I don't mean to discredit the X5, but for a family car - if you have a child, the ML is a much better car for that use.

cgeorge430

Since you're having a new child, you'll probably going to carry a lot more stuff around as well...the ML has much more cargo space than the X5.

Also, I don't think the X5 will be better in terms of reliability than the ML. X5 has far less rattles and squeaks. Both are German cars that are designed very similiarly. Granted, they're not Japanese. I used to drive a BMW 3 series and I found it "like home" when I got the ML. My 3series wasn't great in terms of reliabiltiy too!

Hard to explain but the design patterns of MB and BMW are "similar" as you would find similiarities on Japanese ones too. Mind you that the ML is a frame on body design compared to the X5.


Good Luck and congrats on your new child!

4benzes

WowwoW:
Please explain how expensive it is to own multiple cars where you live. The way that you are switching up 50k cars, it doesn't seem like price would be an issue. Do they charge you more during registartion?


Just curious,

cgeorge430

Where I live? Van, BC. How expensive? Just for the cost of the car and stuff.

Registration fees? None.

Insurance? $1800 per year for the ML. $1400 per year for the BMW. That's providing that you have a "safe driving" record for 10+ years, you get 43%off. If not then it's pretty expensive.

Price in Cdn$

Price an issue? Yes it's an issue. I don't mind the wear and tear items and little things (ie battery, water pump, etc) but when stuff isn't supposed to break (I guess), then money is allways an issue.

Let me recall the repairs on my 3-series...

Water pump failed - 3 times!
Battery
Radiator leaked at the connection - replaced.
Rad hose blew - twice
Another hose for the heater blew
Ignition coils - 3 of them
Drive shaft mount
a/c evaporator core replaced (leak) $$$$

frame cracked under the carriage $$$$ - body shop had to buy a portion of the frame and welded it back together
(this one pushed it, and that's why I got the ML)

windows chattering
fuel pump - twice
fuel gauge sender - once
oil pan leak
hvac control motor
various light swiches and bulbs.
various electrical problems

I can pull up the BIG list I still have and can go on and on...these are the ones that I remember off my head! I'm proably a BMW mechanic myself!

I had the 95 325i (5speed)
So if you guys are telling me that the X5 will be better in terms of reliablity compared to the ML, you'll be in for a surprise! But I'm sure they are more reliable now but they're all pretty much the same design.

Car never abused - just driven hard sometimes.
However, when it did ran - IT RAN REALLY GOOD!