Mr. Vanos

I understand the 98s had some quality problems that were fixed in 99, 00. However, a good friend of mine purchased a 2000 and ended up returning it for full sticker due to all the problems he had. Any input here? The lease on my SUV is coming up and I'm debating between an ML500 (maybe 55) and a G500, but am concerned about quality issues on the ML. Any info would be appreciated.

tsanjose

hey vanos... i have a 2000 430 and im not afraid to admit, that i am very disappointed with the quality of the car. i have 26k miles and since day 1 i heard creaks in the interior, right front windows squeeking, door panels rattleing etc. not to mention the car overall just doesnt feel like a REAL benz. my parents have owned the big bodies before and they are the real deal. i had a choice of this or a range rover and i kinda wish i chose the 4.6. i opted for the 430 for it's performance over the rr's. im gonna give it to my wife and may get into an e class...

Richard

We have a ML, CLK & SL - the ML is by far the worst built (its a MY2000) - the dash creaks loudly at 16-18 degrees Centrigrade, door panels are loose etc - we have a MY2002 turning up on 1/1/2002 and everyone says the build quality is "fixed".

You are very lucky you didnt buy a Range Rover though - I have friends with them and they break regularly, the engines and transmissions are poor (they are very very old design), and inside panel fit is not good. They fixed the problems by having the car sent to specialist tuner OverFinch who put a 6.7Liter engine in, removed *all* the panel work, put the latest interior in it and added extra fixing, dampening etc, and best of all put huge brakes on it - now its as quick as the ML500 - see www.overfinch.co.uk

Kar don

I have a 99 320 and love it. Sure it had a few problems but one was my dealer's fault (leaky windshield install). All the problems I had were corrected by the dealer, squeaky brakes (dealer replaced all rotors and pads free at 22K), fuel sending unit, and there was some creaking noise as the car went up a sharp incline
(the door seals were rubbing against the doors wrong and they were replaced and all is well!). I looked at the ML500 at the auto show and find all the panels very tight, and upon slamming the tailgate there was minimal rattling. I really would like to upgrade but im an in the process of getting a new C240 or 325i. I would say go for the ML500 and if there are problems (which i HIGHLY doubt), the dealer will always fix it. Clair in boston,ma does!

Don

I’ve put on almost 40K miles on my ’00 ML430 and I’ve had a few problems, but all were fixed under warrantee. There is an occasional rattle that seems to be inherent with the way the rear seat back locks into the upright position. But it’s not a structural issue. The body and frame seem very solid and tight. The M-Class is a very tough vehicle.

Although I would have preferred fewer trips to the dealer for warrantee service, overall I’m quite pleased with the ML430 and will probably upgrade to the ML500 soon. I use the ML mostly for long trips, or when I need more than two seats. Most of my trips involve some driving on unimproved roads and trails. I took a trip late last summer from San Diego to Alaska in the ML430 and I can’t think of another vehicle that would have been better. The ML offers a great combination of on and off-road capability.

I’ve owned three Land Cruisers (91, 93, 98) in the past and find the ML430 more appropriately sized for my application and much more fun to drive than the ’98 V8 Land Cruiser it replaced. I actually prefer the size of the earlier model Land Cruisers to the new V8 models. If you need the third row of seats, the Land Cruiser or LX470 is probably a better option than the M-Class. I had fewer problems with the Land Cruisers than the ML, but the service experience with Mercedes is muuuch superior to that offered by Toyota. I think I would buy the LX470 over the Land Cruiser just for the upgraded service environment.

In my opinion there are only two suitable SUV alternatives -- the M-Class or the LX470/Landcruiser. If you don’t need the size of the Toyota/Lexus then I would recommend the M-Class. Of course, if you need a more serious off-roader, then the G500 becomes the vehicle of choice.

Scorpius

My dad's ML320 had something leak about a week after he had it. Its a 2000, and I think it was the differential... I know it wasn't the tranny. It was in the front. The guy from Wilmington motorcars in Delaware came here, dropped off an S 230 kompressor and took the ML to be fixed.

Mr. Vanos

The ML may be bad, but I think the RR's are worse. We have a 2000 Discovery II and it's been in the shop 12 times for the same tranny problem. Right now, my SUV is a 2000 Toyota Land Cruiser and I have to admit, solid as a rock since day 1. No rattles, no squeaks and the only time it's ever gone in was for oil change. Toyota is doing something right. Maybe I should just stick with a Lexus LX470 next time, although something about sitting in a Benz, be it a car or truck. Thanks for the honest info. Hopefully, quality will get better next year.

Don

I should have mentioned in my previous post that the problems I had with my 2000 ML430 during 40K miles of service were not serious. Initially I had problems with the phone and GPS Nav system that took several dealer visits to resolve but turned out to be corrosion at the base of the antenna due to a faulty seal. The CD changer failed and was replaced. Later the CD player in the COMAND system failed requiring replacement of the COMAND system. A rear door lock recently failed and had to be replaced. I also had a fuel starvation issue at high altitude that was diagnosed as a defective mass (not sure of name) sensor. I probably have 1000 to 2000 miles of unimproved road/trail use, which may have contributed to CD player failures.

sosh

I went from a 98ML320 which was OK in spite of its quirks and the fact that it was the first year of production to a new ML500. I took del of the ML500 aug 24th and to date it has had more problems than my 98. These problems have most all been associated with the new 2002 stuff, ie: one touch up windows, alarm going off, trans shift module not allowing the ignition key to be removed, GPS locking up and others. All in all the vehicle has been much improved over my 98 as so far as fit and finish, ride, interior, transmission and all over feel when driving plus of course the new features. Dealer service has been teriffic BUT there is some stuff that they and the factory can't seem to fix. I wish it had the build quality of my other car, an 01 E320 4 matic.

mbtech208

It's a shame, but by far the most warranty work I do is on the ML. The early ones were very disappointing, although I know several people who are perfectly happy with their ML. It does look to be much improved for the 2002 model year however. At least the window switches are redesigned, so they shouldn't be failing as frequently anymore!

sosh

Unfortunatly, my windows are still a problem, all windows intermittently when closed with the one touch will go all the way up then open about 2". After this they will close normally. All window motors have been replaced including the sensors. Consul switch module has been replaced twice. Still behaves the same. The tracks were checked for obstructions and lubed with silicone. At this point no one has an answer. Factory rep is useless as he said to adjust them and on the ML there is no adjustment as on other models. Additional problems I have experienced are, Loose rear bumper, Alarm going off, Unable to remove key from ignition, trip computer going nuts, trans module replaced, GPS locking up, Plus several other minor issues. You are a MB Tech, whats your thought on the windows???

mbtech208

All Mercedes models with the express-up feature for the windows seem to have this problem. The window reopens about 2 inches after using the express-up. However, I have not yet seen this problem with the 2002 ML. What usually works for me is one of three things. First, I try to synchronize the window by holding the switch in the first detent of the "up" position until it closes, then holding the switch for an additional 2-3 seconds. If this doesn't work, I take the the door panel off, lube the tracks, and adjust the window downward slightly, so that it doesn't close as tight against the top of the door. This works for most 202 models. If it's a 208, 220, or 215, the DCM (door control module) is the culprit most of the time. If nothing else works, the motor gets replaced. But if you've had all of this done to your ML, and even the factory rep doesn't have an answer, I'm afraid I don't either. This would be about the time I'd scratch my head and ask the shop foreman for help.

sosh

Appreciate your help but as you mentioned all of this has been done not once but the car has been at the dealer's 11 times since delivery. The shop forman and the service manager and the MB tech rep have all been involved. I am aware of the window synch proceedure and this has been done many many times. Was at the dealer's this AM and they are now speaking with people at MBUSA headquarters and may in fact replace the vehicle. This is only one of many many issues I have had with this car but they so far have resolved the other issues. I have even spoken directly with the techs and taken the tech that usually works on the car to lunch to pick his brain. He seems quite competent but is awaiting "orders" to see what to do next. He's run out of ideas as has the factory. My 01 E320 4 matic does not have this problem and if fact it has had no problems since new except for a tele aid software glitch and a headlight re aiming. My only thought at this point is that somehow with one or more of the parts they have replaced another bad one got installed.

awiner

Wow ! Replacing the vehicle due to an 'unfixable' DCM .. That's great ! Sounds like a good deal to me.


.... Now where is my screwdriver ?? Got to go break some stuff.....

mbtech208

Of the several MBUSA buyback's we have had at my dealership since I've been there, ML's accounted for every one of them. If I ever own an ML, I'm going to get personalized license plates that say "BUYBACK"

sosh

What you do not understand is that I have owned this ML500 since Aug 24th, Thats almost 12 weeks. Of the 12 weeks I have only driven it an aggregate time of about 4 weeks. Is been in the shop. I have put more miles on dealer loaners than my ML and in fact I have yet to have the car washed as the dealer does it prior to return to me. I really do not want the thing replaced as I feel I may have to start all over again de bugging another. What else is there to do?? I will not put up with this for 3 years.

mbtech208

I'd suggest taking it to another dealer, where somebody can start from scratch on it. Who knows, maybe somebody else at another dealer has seen this before, it may be nothing new to them. Also the shop foreman at another dealer may be more knowledgable.

sosh

My dealer is excellent. Have purchased numerous cars from them over the past 5 years. Ownership of this place owns 2 other dealerships in the area. Only other nearby I would not set foot in. Most of their customer's end up at my dealer for service in the long term. That dealer seems to get all the personel that for what ever reason leave my dealer. Problem is not the dealer, its MBUSA. Quality control of car and the components mfged by outside vendors sucks. MB tech rep who is about to retire has not kept up on the tech aspect of the cars and gives erronous info. He usually guesses and is wrong. Re the windows, everything in the system has been replaced at least once. All wiring, software and mechanical systems checks OK. My only guess is that they replaced whatever bad part caused the problem with another bad part from MBUSA.

iridium130

We had a '98 ML320 but that got totalled after 3 months so insurance bought us a new ML320. We got a '99 ML320 that time and we have had some minor problems with it.

One annoying problem was the door locks...they would keep going up and down up and down and sometimes wouldn't automatically lock, etc.

There are a LOT of squeaks and rattles in this car. Our E320 and even my CL-S is quieter than the ML...

sosh

Had the squeaks and rattles in my 98 but dealer took care of them in one try. Most were associated with the rear hatch. Had the door lock problem with the 98 also but occurred so infrequently that I never did anything about it and they always ended up where I wanted them to be. My 2002 is much tighter with no Squeaks and rattles except from a loose rear bumper which was corrected. The one thing I have not had a problem with the 2002 has been the locks

tsanjose

has anyone made the connection between rattles/squeeks and the rear seats? i read somewhere that the locking mechanism on the rear fold down latches are the problem. i didnt get a chance to look at it yet tho.

any ideas mbtech?

mbtech208

The rear-seat hinges are known to rattle, yes. Sir, with all due respect, EVERYTHING in an ML rattles. Roof racks sometimes make a popping sound while turning up a hill at an angle, such as a driveway. The sunroof drain tubes in the C-pillars come loose and make a knocking sound when the vehicle rocks from side-to-side. On early ML's, the doors would rattle and shift around in their openings. Replacing all the door latches and door seals was the cure for this. I've had ML's where the rear seatbelt buckle was merely hanging in between the rear seat and the rear quarter panel, which made a nice healthy rattle. I've seen sunroof rail assemblies that were left loose from the factory, so the headliner had to be dropped and all the bolts tightened.

Richard

iridium130 - thats caused by the sensor in the door not thinking the door is locked, so the door-control-module opens and closes the locking again to try and shut it. Its fixable by adding some shins to something in the door lock. Happened to us after they replaced a central locking solenoid and dealer [here in UK] knew exactly what to do.

tsanjose

thanks mbtech. i also have that roof rack rattle when i turn into my driveway. is there a fix for that? i was going to send it to the dealer for some door panel rattles that have surfaced again. i also noticed that my front passenger window rattles when open. it almost sounds like the glass is gonna break sometimes. i am the only one who drives this thing and almost never roll the windows down. when my wife and i took a drive ishe have the window down and we noticed that one just recently.

does most dealers know about these problems and are they aware of how to fix them?

lee2375

I guess you guys wouldn't recommend the purchase of a used ML430, then, eh? I was looking at a 99 ML430 with 32K mi. this weekend to add to our "collection", but after reading this board, i'm not so sure. My fiancee likes it and I really liked it, though, upon a test drive.