Brake upgrade to 2000+ ML430?
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Brake upgrade to 2000+ ML430?
Hi,
I have a 98 ML320, everything is great (no problem whatsoever in the past 6k since I bought it). Except for one thing. Horrible brakes! I strongly believe that these brakes are not enough to bring this truck to a quick stop. I am looking into upgrade to the bigger 4 pistons version found on the 00+ ML430, ML500, and M 55. Does anyone on this board has upgraded? What parts are needed? Do you need to change the master brake cylinder as well?
Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks.
-Matt
I have a 98 ML320, everything is great (no problem whatsoever in the past 6k since I bought it). Except for one thing. Horrible brakes! I strongly believe that these brakes are not enough to bring this truck to a quick stop. I am looking into upgrade to the bigger 4 pistons version found on the 00+ ML430, ML500, and M 55. Does anyone on this board has upgraded? What parts are needed? Do you need to change the master brake cylinder as well?
Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks.
-Matt
Super Member
Joined: Jul 2004
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The existing brakes are more than adequate provided they are working properly. Have the system checked. You will probably find that replacing the master cylinder will bring back a nice pedal. Make sure the rotors are not thin, this causes huge brake pedal feel problems on ML's. Don't be a cheapskate, replace them if they are worn at all. Also it is quite possible the ABS pump has been replaced at some point, and its very difficult to get all the air out. May need the brakes bled again.
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Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Bay area - California
2000 ML320 2006 SLK 350
What's the lifespan of the OEM rotors on the ML???
I have almost 76K miles on my 00 ML320, still going with the rotors that came with the truck, when I purchased it 4 years back.
I have gone through 2 sets of pads for both the front wheels and the rear, but everytime the dealer tells me the rotors are fine, and don't need replacement.
I am mostl probably going to go with the 3rd set of pads pretty soon, since visual inspection shows that the pads have thinned...am just waiting for the brake sensor warning light to come up.
Would it be a good idea to replace the rotors with that many miles, or as usual, if the dealer advices me that they are fine, should I keep them.
Isn't 80K miles an unusually long lifespan for the rotors?
I have gone through 2 sets of pads for both the front wheels and the rear, but everytime the dealer tells me the rotors are fine, and don't need replacement.
I am mostl probably going to go with the 3rd set of pads pretty soon, since visual inspection shows that the pads have thinned...am just waiting for the brake sensor warning light to come up.
Would it be a good idea to replace the rotors with that many miles, or as usual, if the dealer advices me that they are fine, should I keep them.
Isn't 80K miles an unusually long lifespan for the rotors?
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Sorry, I just work on them and own one. I guess I really don't know after all. They wont groove the rotors heavily and make noise at all. My bad. I was just exaggerating because I like to give out false information. I also haven't had to replace a few sets on ML500s with only 10K miles on them because of how hard they are on the brakes. I am a liar. I fully hereby discredit myself....... 
When you spend all your time working on mercedes, you will see the difference.
When you spend all your time working on mercedes, you will see the difference.
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From: Oakland, CA
2014 E350 Estate Wagon 4Matic
Originally Posted by saturnstyl
Sorry, I just work on them and own one. I guess I really don't know after all. They wont groove the rotors heavily and make noise at all. My bad. I was just exaggerating because I like to give out false information. I also haven't had to replace a few sets on ML500s with only 10K miles on them because of how hard they are on the brakes. I am a liar. I fully hereby discredit myself.......
When you spend all your time working on mercedes, you will see the difference.
When you spend all your time working on mercedes, you will see the difference.
However, I'm just curious, do you work for Mercedes as a certified technician? How is it you have time to respond to these posts during the day? I/m just curious.
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'82 turbo yugo
Originally Posted by saturnstyl
Sorry, I just work on them and own one.
If what you claim is correct, please explain why so many people with 430s/500s/55s get two pad changes out of a set of rotors.
Best wishes.
p.s. Yes, I've changed a bunch of pads and rotors on my MLs. I just am fortunate enough not to have to do it for a living.
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Joined: Jul 2004
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Originally Posted by Some Pete Guy
To claim that the rotors need to be changed with every pads change is silly and is spreading bad information.
If what you claim is correct, please explain why so many people with 430s/500s/55s get two pad changes out of a set of rotors.
Best wishes.
p.s. Yes, I've changed a bunch of pads and rotors on my MLs. I just am fortunate enough not to have to do it for a living.
If what you claim is correct, please explain why so many people with 430s/500s/55s get two pad changes out of a set of rotors.
Best wishes.
p.s. Yes, I've changed a bunch of pads and rotors on my MLs. I just am fortunate enough not to have to do it for a living.
What I state is from real world experience on hundreds if not thousands of ML's. My dealer once held the title of largest retailer in the south for the M-class models. As was stated by another poster, there are exceptions to every rule, however as of yet I have not witnessed a single ML500 come through for a brake job and not require brake rotor replacement.
As for my posting habits, I generally get home around 6 pm EST, and check here every so often until I am done surfing for the night. I feel weeding out the vast amount of false information out on the internet will benefit me in the end, and perhaps help out some fellow Benz owners. I enjoy the car line immensely for the most part.... Not something that can be said of most MB techs I have encountered across the USA.
Have a wonderful evening.
Last edited by saturnstyl; Nov 10, 2004 at 08:50 PM.
Senior Member
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From: Oakland, CA
2014 E350 Estate Wagon 4Matic
Lot's of users here appreciate Saturnstyl's expertise. Seems a bit harsh to disagree so feverishly. Consider yourself lucky if you don't replace your rotors often. Hope i don't have to...
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'82 turbo yugo
Originally Posted by saturnstyl
I am fortunate to do something I love for a living. Obviously you are no multibillionaire because you still change your own brake pads and skimp on rotors.....
It's not "skimping" if you don't replace perfectly functional parts that are in spec, according to MB. But your comment is funny.
(big ole resume snip)
Originally Posted by saturnstyl
As was stated by another poster, there are exceptions to every rule, however as of yet I have not witnessed a single ML500 come through for a brake job and not require brake rotor replacement.
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Joined: May 2003
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From: In A Van Down By The River
2014 RX 350 F Sport, 2007 Scion tC, 2000 ML 430 Money Pit Finally Gone! Oh Happy Day!
FWIW, I'm on my second set of rear pads, still with the original rotors. My dealerships shop says the rotors are still within the required specs. I'm just a poor ole retired guy on a fixed income. 
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 196
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From: Maryland
2000 ML430
Originally Posted by Some Pete Guy
It has nothing to do with the cost or my ability to afford inexpensive replacement rotors and everything to do with convenience. Why hassle with taking the truck to the dealer/independent and leaving it when I can knock it out on my own in an hour over a few beers?
It's not "skimping" if you don't replace perfectly functional parts that are in spec, according to MB. But your comment is funny.
(big ole resume snip)
There are a large percentage of 430/500/55 owners that don't have to change rotors with every pad change. Perhaps your SAs are the types that are pushing rotor changes with every pad change despite the fact that there is plenty of life left in the rotor (seen that myself, read about it numerous times).
It's not "skimping" if you don't replace perfectly functional parts that are in spec, according to MB. But your comment is funny.
(big ole resume snip)
There are a large percentage of 430/500/55 owners that don't have to change rotors with every pad change. Perhaps your SAs are the types that are pushing rotor changes with every pad change despite the fact that there is plenty of life left in the rotor (seen that myself, read about it numerous times).
Last edited by 00ML430 Bulldog; Nov 12, 2004 at 10:34 AM.
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From: San Diego
ML430, Mini Cooper S and Porsche 911 Twin Turbo
Could it be that....
some dealers change the rotors with each set of pads because the rotors might wear down to the minimum spec before the next service ?
I've noticed this with dealer recommended pads changes - ie even though there's maybe 50% pad left, given the rate V8 ML's go thru' them they may not last till next A or B service.
For the record normally I also do all my own brake work for the same reasons as Pete.
But I must admit for the last brake job on the rear wheels I took all the parts I had (pads & rotors from German Star) down to the local brake shop and had them do the install. Still way cheaper and much more convenient than making a special trip to the dealer.
BTW I wasn't able to persuade my local dealer to change the tranny oil - he positively advised against it. Likewise he didn't want to change the harmonic balancer (on my $$$) saying it was perfectly fine - even though from research it's part # is known to fail.
So at least my dealership is not a stealership - afaik.
I've noticed this with dealer recommended pads changes - ie even though there's maybe 50% pad left, given the rate V8 ML's go thru' them they may not last till next A or B service.
For the record normally I also do all my own brake work for the same reasons as Pete.
But I must admit for the last brake job on the rear wheels I took all the parts I had (pads & rotors from German Star) down to the local brake shop and had them do the install. Still way cheaper and much more convenient than making a special trip to the dealer.
BTW I wasn't able to persuade my local dealer to change the tranny oil - he positively advised against it. Likewise he didn't want to change the harmonic balancer (on my $$$) saying it was perfectly fine - even though from research it's part # is known to fail.
So at least my dealership is not a stealership - afaik.
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Joined: Jul 2004
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Brake squeal has a lot to do with recommended rotor replacement. Some models are quite prone to it, and pretty much all of them are prone to it when rear rotors are not changed with pads.
The idea of many dealers is that when you come in for service, you should not have to return for any reason until your next service. How many people do you hear on these boards whining about making another trip to the dealer? So we have to err on the side of caution when it comes to what may happen during the next 13,000 miles. Thats a long time people.... Some customers come in only every 2 years now because the maintenance intervals are so long. Thats 4 times longer than many other cars go between service.
If your harmonic balancer is not cracked, wobbly, or has some rubber poking out too far, it is fine. Many go 100,000 miles without problems. Then again many do not.... The failure rate has gone way down recently.
I used to replace 2 or 3 a day, now I hardly see them anymore.
The idea of many dealers is that when you come in for service, you should not have to return for any reason until your next service. How many people do you hear on these boards whining about making another trip to the dealer? So we have to err on the side of caution when it comes to what may happen during the next 13,000 miles. Thats a long time people.... Some customers come in only every 2 years now because the maintenance intervals are so long. Thats 4 times longer than many other cars go between service.
If your harmonic balancer is not cracked, wobbly, or has some rubber poking out too far, it is fine. Many go 100,000 miles without problems. Then again many do not.... The failure rate has gone way down recently.
I used to replace 2 or 3 a day, now I hardly see them anymore.
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Bay area - California
2000 ML320 2006 SLK 350
And what after 100K miles????
Don't tell me, the harmonic balancer could blow any time after 100K without warning..
Is it advisible to replace it around 100K, just as preventive maintenance?
Is it advisible to replace it around 100K, just as preventive maintenance?
Super Member
Joined: Jul 2004
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Typically you will see a sign that something is wrong before it lets go. Rubber poking out, severe cracking of the rubber, or wobbling. Just inspect it regularly. Yes, sometimes they are recommended as preventive maintenance, if something just doesn't look right about it. I feel most damage is done by people who just keep driving when the engine starts making funny noises. If you catch it quickly, no harm done, just replace the balancer. Keep driving, and you can count on buying an oil pan also.
If it makes you feel better, have it replaced. The peace of mind that may bring you is often priceless. I know I can't stand driving a car I believe could let me down at any time. I would replace or repair what was bothering me and keep on truckin! Hell, while your at it throw on a lower power steering hose for added security!
There is a laundry list of things early model ML owners should be diligent about... I typed it once and it was several pages long. There are a lot of common failures to keep an eye out for, but nothing regular services by a qualified tech shouldn't catch!
If it makes you feel better, have it replaced. The peace of mind that may bring you is often priceless. I know I can't stand driving a car I believe could let me down at any time. I would replace or repair what was bothering me and keep on truckin! Hell, while your at it throw on a lower power steering hose for added security!
There is a laundry list of things early model ML owners should be diligent about... I typed it once and it was several pages long. There are a lot of common failures to keep an eye out for, but nothing regular services by a qualified tech shouldn't catch!
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From: Las Vegas, NV USA / London, UK
GL320CDI / C63 Edition 507 Coupe (EDP) / E63 S (on order) / G500 / Smart Brabus
Originally Posted by Some Pete Guy
To claim that the rotors need to be changed with every pads change is silly and is spreading bad information.
If what you claim is correct, please explain why so many people with 430s/500s/55s get two pad changes out of a set of rotors.
Best wishes.
p.s. Yes, I've changed a bunch of pads and rotors on my MLs. I just am fortunate enough not to have to do it for a living.
If what you claim is correct, please explain why so many people with 430s/500s/55s get two pad changes out of a set of rotors.
Best wishes.
p.s. Yes, I've changed a bunch of pads and rotors on my MLs. I just am fortunate enough not to have to do it for a living.
I've also seen several V8 M-class that get two pad sets per rotor, including my 2000 ML430.
-s-
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I believe the comment I made was regarding an ML500 and not any other V8 ML....... The 500's are much worse at having heavy scoring of the rotor surface than the others.
I am sure it pleases you to no end that you were able to get 2 sets of pads to one set of rotors. But keep in mind, none of the people who have taken the other side of the argument are driving an ML500.
I am sure it pleases you to no end that you were able to get 2 sets of pads to one set of rotors. But keep in mind, none of the people who have taken the other side of the argument are driving an ML500.
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Joined: Sep 2004
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From: atlanta
1999 ML430
saturnstyl, If you could repost that items list from early ML's, I'd appreciate it.
I think I've got a pretty good handle on items to watch for, but I'd appreciate your opinion.
Also, I know there were two guides published by MB in 1998 and 1999 regarding service on the ML's. The 98 book is approx $38.00/300 pages and the 99 book is $20.00/65pages with updates from the previous book. Are you familiar with these guides and are they a good resource for maintenance?
BTW, my 99ML430 has 205,000 miles now and still has the original engine, transmission, shocks, ac compressor, ps pump, exhaust system, harmonic balancer, alternator, etc. The only things I've had to change are normal wear and tear items such as ....rubber belts/hoses/tires....brake pads, and of course all fluids on a regular basis. A power steering fluid reservoir, a battery and a fan clutch are the only items I can recall replacing over the years.
Every time I pop the hood, which is at least twice a week, I examine the harmonic balancer for any problems, such as wobble while idling and I also examine the rubber gasket for cracks and extension from the balancer. So far so good !!
Also
I think I've got a pretty good handle on items to watch for, but I'd appreciate your opinion.
Also, I know there were two guides published by MB in 1998 and 1999 regarding service on the ML's. The 98 book is approx $38.00/300 pages and the 99 book is $20.00/65pages with updates from the previous book. Are you familiar with these guides and are they a good resource for maintenance?
BTW, my 99ML430 has 205,000 miles now and still has the original engine, transmission, shocks, ac compressor, ps pump, exhaust system, harmonic balancer, alternator, etc. The only things I've had to change are normal wear and tear items such as ....rubber belts/hoses/tires....brake pads, and of course all fluids on a regular basis. A power steering fluid reservoir, a battery and a fan clutch are the only items I can recall replacing over the years.
Every time I pop the hood, which is at least twice a week, I examine the harmonic balancer for any problems, such as wobble while idling and I also examine the rubber gasket for cracks and extension from the balancer. So far so good !!
Also
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From: Las Vegas, NV USA / London, UK
GL320CDI / C63 Edition 507 Coupe (EDP) / E63 S (on order) / G500 / Smart Brabus
Originally Posted by saturnstyl
I believe the comment I made was regarding an ML500 and not any other V8 ML....... The 500's are much worse at having heavy scoring of the rotor surface than the others.
I am sure it pleases you to no end that you were able to get 2 sets of pads to one set of rotors. But keep in mind, none of the people who have taken the other side of the argument are driving an ML500.
I am sure it pleases you to no end that you were able to get 2 sets of pads to one set of rotors. But keep in mind, none of the people who have taken the other side of the argument are driving an ML500.
How can you be sure what pleases me? If you're so good at it, maybe you should be in some other industry! Your statements might not require precision in that industry...
-s-
