SAguirre

I have been looking at this forum and I have not found anything about this issue:

I have driven about 8 different 2000 and older MLs in the past. They were all either ML 320s or ML 430s. Although I can't say that I have totally remembered the way they drive, I can tell you that I would have remembered if they did have a bad characteristic. Those MLs were quite good (especially if you consider how heavy they are).

So here is my issue. My dealer has mostly ML350s as loaner cars and I have driven 3 ML350s. All of them have had less than 4,000 miles and one only had 800 miles on it. I almost panicked when I first hit the brake in the parking lot (which I usually do just to test anyway). The pedal sank at least a whole inch and then the brakes barely started to engage, it sank a bit more by the time I stopped. I could not believe that it was this bad so I went inside the dealership and asked my service writer if the car was OK. My service writer knows me and knows that I know cars, so he drove it chuckled and said it was totally normal for the MLs they have. I have since driven the other two and they were the same way. I tested how far the pedal would sink in hard braking and it really almost hits the floor if you are driving 40 MPH and stop hard. I never noticed this on the older ones, I would have remembered.

I have now decided to put the MLs on the avoid list when it come to loaner cars. I have driven C240s 4 Matics and E320 4 Matic wagons as loaners. I am totally appreciative of any MB loaner I can get, but I HATE the brake pedal feel of the 2005s ML 350s! Am I alone here?

I know that my E class has the electro-hydraulic brakes (SBC, brake by wire) and they are very different, but my 1986 Audi 4000 CS Quattro's brakes feel much like my E class brakes. I find the ML’s brakes (the 3 2005s I have recently driven) totally unbecoming of a MB! American cars have better brake pedal feel! Please note I would still choose the ML's brakes over an American cars brakes (in spite of the feel) since they are better performers and safer. However, they feel like bad brakes.

Any comments?

Steve

sosh

My ML500 brakes normally and I like the pedal feel, gives you easiier control, If you are that down on the brakes aren't you glad you don't own one!!

SAguirre

I don't dislike the car at all. But I do not think that you will find any true luxury, performance or touring car (except some American cars) that have that much brake pedal travel. The car stops well, but the brakes are not linear if you consider how much dead space there is at the start. This is like my 1st car: a 1973 VW Super Beatle. If the drum shoes were warn (and they were not self adjusting) then the pedal started to stop much lower. Once they were adjusted, the pedal was starting to stop right at the top. I can't believe that I compared a Mercedes with a VW Bug!

I would be willing to bet you that the new ML's brakes will be nothing like what I am talking about. As a matter a fact, I would bet you that there is no other MB model with the same brake feel. I guess you can get used to anything, but it does not mean that it is right.

BTW, when I was at the dealer's this summer, I saw an ML 400 CDI!!!!!! It was an MB executive 's from Alabama who was on vacation pulling a trailer out west with his family. I asked if it was going to be out in this Market, but no one knew anything. I think that it was made for export.

Steve

pointman

great here we go again...

sosh

Actually I prefer the ML brake feel to that of my E Class!! Have had numerous cars in the past some competition and exotics that have brake feel similar to the ML. Perhaps your young age does not permit a wide variety of cars to experience or, you have limited your driving experiences to a certain type of car that does not offer the same brake feel of the ML

SAguirre

Well, I can see this might be your impression of me. I have had the privilege of driving very many high-end cars in my life. However, I have never driven any Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, BMW or any other Mercedes that has this mushy-feeling brake pedal. I have driven many cars in my short 31 years of life. I have raced in Germany's Nurburgring (and won) in my Porsche 930. Also, since I live in Colorado, I have driven many different brands of SUVs up to the mountains and back (not just around the block). I am not an inexperienced driver. The only brake pedal that really felt like this (in my experience) was either my 1973 bug or when my Audi has gotten air in its brake lines (don't ask me how this happened since I change the fluid religiously every 2 years).

Since you must be older (judging from your age comment towards me) and must have a plethora of memories of different brake pedal feels, please choose any of the above brands that I have mentioned and tell me which one feels like an ML. Even if you want to compare it to an X5, I doubt you can truly find this characteristic. Time will tell if Mercedes thinks this is correct. If the new ML's brakes feel like this, then I guess I will be proven wrong. Just bare in mind that we are talking about a Mercedes Benz here and it should be compared to other prestigious brands.

HOWEVER, this thread is not meant o be an insult for those who bought an ML. If I needed an SUV, I would have seriously considered it. As far as we know, this might be a problem unique to the ML 350 and not the other ML models.

I would kindly ask everyone to please make an effort to not make this a personal issue. This is not meant to be a thread to prove myself or for me to post a résumé. This is strictly my PERSONAL OPINION and I respect all of your PERSONAL OPINIONS.

I will not defend my point of view any further so as to spare everyone here who does not want to see this thread hit 3 pages in the next 2 hours. However, if anyone is unhappy with their brakes on their ML 350 and has any comments, I would be very curious to hear what you have to say.

Steve A

E320Star

oh nooo. sounds like a for sale sign soon. Good luck

sosh

Actually an older Ferarri I had (330GTC) comes to mind with brake feel similar to the ML as does my 65 Corvette that I have owned since new and a Shelby Cobra (289) that I once had. I was not trying to discredit you so please do not be so defensive. However I feel that the ML brakes with the pedal travel are much easier to use than a vehicle with almost no pedal travel and quite sensitive pedal.

ima55r2

The brakes on my ml weren't as firm as my amg cars and had more travel distance before engaging. It is disconcerting for the first couple stops. Even after changing out the brake fluid...they still felt the same.

SAguirre

Thank you for your input. At least I was not imagining this characteristic. You are correct about getting used to it. But the first few times you hit the brakes it sure feels like nothing happens!

It feels like if it was air in the lines, but it is too consistent for it to be air. I think that it is the way they designed it.

Has anyone driven both the ML 350 and ML500 to see if the pedal feels the same in both? So far the people who are saying their brakes are OK are ML 500 drivers.

Steve

saturnstyl

ML brakes suck. Especially on the 320 and 350. Try a thorough bleed, cracking the lines at the master, then at the abs pump before moving to the calipers. A new master cylinder may help things along, as a last resort, new pads and rotors often give a significantly better pedal.

timdf

I have long 'whined' about the brake feel on the ML, but have learnt to live with the feeling that if I pressed hard enough it would go all the way down !

Been like this from new and no amount of 'bleeding' / different pads etc have had any effect.

I read elsewhere this is a design feature on the ML to make feathering the brakes easier when going off road.

However all that extra travel when on road does not inspire confidence in an emergency. Maybe that's why they added brake assist ?

IMHO even brake assist is a little scary the first time it kicks in and takes the brake pedal away from under your foot !

Overall I prefer 'sharp' brakes and have been spoiled by my 911 TT, none the less it is possible to lock the wheels up on an ML so the brakes can't be all that bad !

SAguirre

No problem about being put on the defensive, but I think that the main problem is that you are talking about your ML 500. I am talking about the ML 350. I have not driven an ML 500 yet, but I would imagine that the brakes are not the same at all. If you ever do drive an ML 350 or if you can recall (if you already drove one) it might be different than the ML500. Mercedes does tend to upgrade brakes when they upgrade HP on their engines.

All the cars you are mentioning (though fine cars for their era) are all of old technology. For their day they had very advanced brakes, but none had or ABS or BAS. My last two Mercedes had both of these and the brakes did not sink as much as the 350's do. I don't know what E class you have, but the W211 I have is a totally different can of worm when it comes to brakes. Nevertheless, at no point did I ever get the feeling that my new E class was not stopping because the brake pedal sinks, yet nothing happens.

This is all a matter of taste in the end. Therefore rendering this as totally subjective. I am happy that you like the brakes, especially since you own the car. However, I see now that there are other people who have this car who are not happy with the pedal feel.

My only concern is this: Sometimes when brakes are not serviced and get air in them, the pedal sinks or travels farther down. What will happen to an ML 350? If the pedal already is past 1/2 way down in normal /correct operating conditions, what will happen to it if it does get air in the system? I guess it will hit the floor! The unused pedal travel that is at the bottom of the brakes is for cases of emergency problems. It is to be able to build up more pressure and compress the air in the lines so that then you can stop. This could be totally wrong, but the ML 350 seems to have NO more safety buffer since it is already possible to push the pedal to the floor.

Steve A.

benzboy

I think it's a matter of contrast. Since I drive an E500 during the week and the ML350 on the weekend (wife's truck) I can notice the softer feel. Takes no time to adjust to it, you just know it's different. The ML brakes stop the truck just fine - but different. BTW when the wife drives the E she HATES the brakes! She says they are too grabby! Go figure...

saturnstyl

V-6 ML's and V-8 ML's have different brakes. V-6's have a single piston floating caliper, V-8's have a four piston fixed caliper in front. The rears are single piston floaters for six bangers and two piston fixed for eights. There is an exception, which If I remember correctly, early 430's had the smaller brakes. I work on so many sometimes I get confused as to what has which.

cte430

Picked up my wife's new ML 500 today and rolling to a stop in the dealerhip lot almost rolled into the car in front of me. There is a lot more travel than in my car. Not a problem, just different. took about 5 minutes to get used to it.

SAguirre

Congrats on your new purchase!!! But you bought the 500, I am sure that the brakes do feel better in that car. However, imagine how it felt for a person used to an Audi or an E's brakes when he first presses the brakes on an ML 350.

OHH Shi@! was what I thought. I have not felt this much play in many years! Even my Grandpa's Fiat 1100 from 1956 he had in Europe was not that loose!

I much prefer touchy/grabby brakes than loose ones. At least with the touchy ones you know it will stop when you hit the pedal, but the first time you press the ML 350's it is a rude awakening! I also got used to it after stopping about 15 times. The longer travel does let you modulate the brakes better, but I don't have any trouble with the SBC E brakes either.

Steve

Evtechnician

I have driven the 2006 ML500 with 65K miles and the 2008 GL550 both have excessive brake travel and mushy feel however the previous owners have gotten use to them.
I am a master technician and have many experiences with hydraulic brakes these feel the worst of any including the 2008 Chevy Suburban. My question is what is normal brake travel for these pedals before the vehicle starts to slow down. 1" 2" 2 1/2" how does the MB tech determine acceptable pedal travel? Thank You

Maj. Dundee

You should be on this forum, but I can tell you that all ML's have the same terrible pedal feel.