rleggs

Thinking of getting a suv for the wife....with gas/diesel prices around/above
4$/gal...which one would you all suggest?...why?

ML CDI vs. Lexus 400h/RX 300.

any other suv?


Thanks

baxterdown

IMHO Hybrids are a marketing ploy. You are paying thousands of dollars worth of a premium for the car to save a few hundred dollars in gas a year. As a matter of fact, you might notice that Lexus doesn't advertise their hybrids based on gas savings but rather on horsepower.

Here's a exerpt from an article in Businessweek on the subject:

MIXED MESSAGES. And there's something else that belies Toyota's green claims. The new Lexus RX 400h hybrid and the forthcoming Lexus GS hybrid sedan will emphasize great acceleration with pretty good fuel economy. The RX, Toyota says, will boast V-8 horsepower with the fuel economy of a smaller engine. For 20 years, Detroit auto makers have used improvements in engine technology to boost power instead of increasing fuel economy. Bluewater is worried that Toyota is now doing the same thing with hybrids.

In one sense, Bluewater is off base. Americans love horsepower, and if someone can give the people what they want in a car that gets 25 to 30 miles per gallon, that's great. It means Toyota is making a popular style of vehicle -- in this case, a peppy and luxurious SUV -- more efficient.

But Bluewater is right that Toyota isn't just doing this to be environmentally friendly. The company wants to market the RX 400h and GS hybrids as powerful cars that get fairly good mileage. With today's gas prices, that's smart -- but it's not green

The ML is a bigger SUV than the RX. It sits higher and feels wider. The RX was designed with women as their primary target so the proportions are better suited to them.

Most importantly, have you asked your wife which one would she like to drive?

dieselfan

It appears that you already have a GL320cdi so you know what it is all about... Lexus is a good car but lacks the german driving traits that you either love or hate about your GL. Not that any of us like to spend $4+/gal on fuel but if you have a GL and are in the market for another new SUV I think that cost of fuel alone shouldn't be your deciding factor.
Drive them and let the ride make your decision for you.
I am a little biased on the cdi drivetrain and you are asking/posting on a Mercedes forum so.... I vote for the ML

blazinginder

If you can, wait it out for the 09 ML320 bluetec otherwise I'd say go with the 08 cdi...the RX is outdated in looks and provides similar mileage

bumper

Why wait on the BlueTec motor? What's so great about having to pay more for service? Why want a BlueTec motor that has AdBlue (urea, ****) that freezes at 31*f and must be thawed to work properly? Why loose the spare tire as to allow the new AdBlue tank to be fitted in its stead? No longer will you take your ML in for service when you want.. BlueTec will mandate when to take in for service (when the AdBlue tank is dry) or risk driving in limp mode. Will the BlueTec motor deliver more HP, fuel milage and reliablity.. or is it a more complicated exhaust system with additional catalytic converters that will now give the thieves more converters to sell on the black market when they crawl under your ML with a battery operated sawzall.

Oh yeah, we get lower nox emissions with the BlueTec.

c240PORTUGA

2009 VW Touareg 3.0TDI

bumper

Sorry but from what I read, due to its weight, the TIGUAN TDI "failed" to pass the NOX muster test.. that a UREA system will undoubtably be installed and available late '09. So, since the Touareg is heavier than the Tiguan, my bet is VW will be forced to install a UREA (AdBlue) injection system on any Touareg TDI to pass North American emission reg's too.

timdf

and when I was looking to change vehicles about 10 months ago I looked at and test drove a range of gas / diesel / hybrid SUV's, including the ML.

I was blown away by the performance, fit / finish and general quality of the Lexus RX400h.

I got one for invoice, and while it's no sports car handling wise (what SUV is?), it's quiet, fast and consistently returns 28 mpg round time and 26mpg freeway, no brake dust on the wheels (regenerative braking helps) - but best of all its 100% reliable and the service is first rate.

I'd buy one again in a heart beat - MB doesn't even come close in my opinion.

As for cost the MB was significantly more expensive.

Lexus is the new MB for quality - yeah I know Lexus is only a dressed up Toyota, but the RX400h is actually made in Japan.

MB Dave

Toyota’s luxury brand Lexus sells very well in the United States, but back in Japan the situation is utterly reversed. The locals there prefer foreign brands (namely German) to Lexus, apparently because the foreign cars provide more individuality.

While Lexus has been around for almost 19 years in the United States, the brand only hit the Japanese shores some three years ago. In a market dominated by German brands such as Audi, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz, Lexus has been struggling to sustain its projected sales figures. In fact, Lexus merely sold 34,800 cars last year.

The problem actually started right from the initial launch in 2005. Lexus had only three models to name of; the GS sports sedan, the SC convertible, and the entry-level IS sedan. The same three were previously sold in Japan under the Toyota nameplate, and were 20% cheaper. Furthermore, reports claim that Toyota’s earlier marketing campaign for Lexus somehow failed and unexpectedly raised the sales of the German brands instead. The stronghold obsession in the German brands rarely makes space for customers to switch to Lexus, and oddly enough, some even go to the extent of importing left-hand-driven German cars to feel its originality (Japan’s norm is right-hand driving).

In recent times, Toyota has spent much on commercializing the Lexus brand, which according to them is increasingly effective. The significance of the brand is growing among the locals, with Lexus outselling its German rivals in some of the important segments.

source worldcarfans.com

Drove my friends Rx 330 it was bad, noisy, slippary seats, cheep dash quality, huge bonnet honestly lexus only has a name established in the u.s and the americans arent the sharpest knifes in the drawr they are easily dooped into buying stuff that is not all that great

timdf

I'm actually a great German car fan and always used to have German cars (mostly BMW) when I lived in the Uk, been in the US for 11 years now and still like German auto's - see my signature.

I was also in the motor indusrty in the UK (worked for FORD), so I figure I know a thing or two about auto's - which leaves me to conclude that Lexus makes a very good vehicle and whose reputation in the UK is growing rapidly at the expense of other premium brands, most notably MB.

The UK motoring press agrees with my comments above - but at the end of the day it's about personal preferences.

My preferences are build quality and performance - cost is not a factor.

I can't comment on the Rx330 you drove, but I did drive a RX300 some years ago and agree it was 'tinny' - bought the ML instead. But the Rx400h is totally different and feels even more robust than the ML W164 - quite bit smaller though, but adequate for our needs.

bumper

+1 You're correct, Lexus brand was originally "created" for the N.American marketplace by "rebadging" regular everyday Toyota cars.

timdf

I believe that LEXUS actually stands for Luxury EXport for the US.

However it's a little more involved than taking off the Toyota badge and sticking a Lexus one in its place :-)

I could argue that the ML is no more than a domestic with a 3 pointed star on it - granted it has German engine / transmission and design heritage, but what about the huge amount of domestic content and assembly ?

Bottom line - it's not about where something was made or its heritage, it's about the whole package and how well the consumer accepts it.

ML550

TIMDF,
Sorry to hear about your ML430-
Build quality has changed dramatically on the new ML's-
My 08' ML550 is flawless with no issues and will run circles around your 400H.
I looked at the MDX (08' is nice...but not that nice) Cayenne S (ML550 is faster and you think Mercedes has reliability issues-check their Porsche chat sites) and Lexus (too small-can't tow, and it IS A TOYOTA-no matter how you slice it).
I am in to performace as you are (My 911 4S is always in the shop-but I expected that) and I race motorcycles but the 400h Lexus is a efficient, reliable, well designed grocery getter.

timdf

ML550

your ML550 would doubtless run rings round my RX400h and then some :-)

and given that it's brand new I'd expect it to be flawless, but what will it be like 2 or 3 years down the road ?

We always though that each successive model year of the W163 would be 'the year' when the bugs got ironed - but alas no.

I sincerely hope the W164 is much improved, but only time will tell.

However for a quiet fuel efficient grocery getter which consistently returns high 20's MPG, does 0-60mph in under 7 seconds (about 1 second slower than ML550 according to published data), is totally reliable (Toyota or not), is excellent on long journeys and actually has significantly more rear leg room than an ML, then imho the Rx400h takes a lot of beating.

As for Porsche having issues - agreed, but like any other manufacturer, it's how they take care of the customer which matters.

For instance I had a brand new '99 Boxster and at 6000 miles it needed a new engine; I later traded it for a new '02 996 cabriolet, at 12,000 miles needed a new tranny (MB made by the way); traded that for a brand new '03 996 twin turbo, at its first service they swapped out the engine because it had a small oil leak - I didn't even know it had a leak.

Whereas with the ML I had to fight tooth and nail to get even the smallest warranty problem taken care off. MBUSA was worse than useless.

Even now with my modified 996 TT (stage 2 500HP +) out of warranty, the dealer still takes care of me.

BTW a buddy of mine had C4S and he couldn't believe the difference between his C4S and my lightly modded TT - scared himself sh*tless.

Apples to Apples :-)

Enjoy your ML and I'll continue to enjoy all my toys !

edit: PS having just read a few troubling posts here, I'm getting a feeling of deja vu :-(