OT: Don't think the ML could do this
06-03-2012, 05:34 PM
#2
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2012 ML350BT / 1988 BMW M3 / 2008 Volvo XC70
Wow, impressive capabilities on that vehicle! More impressive is the fact that someone came with the idea for that contraption.
06-03-2012, 06:21 PM
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2013 ML BLUETEC JULY 31
I dont think so either because the "G" is special.
But then again it hauls the Kardasian BS n Drama around 24/7 hahahahahaha
But then again it hauls the Kardasian BS n Drama around 24/7 hahahahahaha
06-03-2012, 06:25 PM
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2012 ML350BT / 1988 BMW M3 / 2008 Volvo XC70
I've seen a few G's in town, and I'm sure the owners are more apt to be like the Kardasians than folks that would actually take it offroad.
06-03-2012, 11:25 PM
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X350d GLE500e 2017, ML350 BlueTec 2012(sold), A200 2013, ML350CDI 2009(sold), Aston Martin DB7 2003
Thats an relatively easy task for any 4x4!
Even without low range, the slip of the torque converter will give the low speed grunt to climb those grades. (Low range would be required for longer climbs as with real hills due to transmission heating reasons).
Approach and departure angles may limit the ML without the airsuspension raised height settings, maybe even with. Did you note they had to infill the bottom exit for the G wagon? The ML might need a bit more assistance of this form, but not that much.
Pure traction on this surface would be no problem for the ML ETS with or without the difflock. No it will not climb that angle on a muddy or gravelly bush track, but that frame has a surface like a cheese grater, which would mean better than 100% traction.
The biggest challenge would be the fear factor. I have done similar with all different vehicles and the biggest difference is always the driver.
Even without low range, the slip of the torque converter will give the low speed grunt to climb those grades. (Low range would be required for longer climbs as with real hills due to transmission heating reasons).
Approach and departure angles may limit the ML without the airsuspension raised height settings, maybe even with. Did you note they had to infill the bottom exit for the G wagon? The ML might need a bit more assistance of this form, but not that much.
Pure traction on this surface would be no problem for the ML ETS with or without the difflock. No it will not climb that angle on a muddy or gravelly bush track, but that frame has a surface like a cheese grater, which would mean better than 100% traction.
The biggest challenge would be the fear factor. I have done similar with all different vehicles and the biggest difference is always the driver.
06-04-2012, 01:41 AM
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2013 ML BLUETEC JULY 31
I would strongly recommend to our dear Aussi friend to rewatch with pauses that video again.
85%grade any 4x4? dream on
cheese grater have you ever driven on a cheese grater or tried to hold it with skin on the rough side? no surface area means a freakin slide up or down that near defies physics. As for the infill its only on one side to show traction differential and non twisty frame that whole piece of track is different.. sorry no put down intended but heck "any 4x4"????? ok any with H1 on it maybe.......and easy????? 80+ grade WOW
85%grade any 4x4? dream on
cheese grater have you ever driven on a cheese grater or tried to hold it with skin on the rough side? no surface area means a freakin slide up or down that near defies physics. As for the infill its only on one side to show traction differential and non twisty frame that whole piece of track is different.. sorry no put down intended but heck "any 4x4"????? ok any with H1 on it maybe.......and easy????? 80+ grade WOW
Last edited by dougiebear; 06-04-2012 at 01:44 AM.
06-04-2012, 03:10 AM
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Dougiebear, please trust that I do have knowledge on the subject, from a physics viewpoint, and hard experience.
Look closely at the metal treads. The slots in the tread have been punched upwards. The metal edges would bite into the rubber tyre like the rack on the Swiss mountain railway.
The traction of G wagen tyres is exactly the same as the traction of those same or similar tyres on any vehicle.
Of course the vehicle must have the grunt to drive the angle. Do your sums and you will find the ML or almost any decent 4x4 will do in excess of 100% gradient subject to traction. Refer to the specs on page 79 of the W164 sales brochure- all ML models are rated at 100% gradient. (I cannot find reference on the W166 but they would be the same.)
I will concede I was incorrect to say "any 4x4".
I now exclude any short wheelbase models with a roof rack and load on the roof.
Honda CRV which should never be called a 4x4 as the rear axle only works when the front wheels spin.
Various other small whiz bangs that are really road going cars with no grunt at low speed.
Further I do not wish to discredit the G wagen. It is an incredible vehicle that certainly has great ability. My comments here only suggest that this video does not show the vehicle to its full potential. For instance if the ramps had a 50% side slope at the same time....
Look closely at the metal treads. The slots in the tread have been punched upwards. The metal edges would bite into the rubber tyre like the rack on the Swiss mountain railway.
The traction of G wagen tyres is exactly the same as the traction of those same or similar tyres on any vehicle.
Of course the vehicle must have the grunt to drive the angle. Do your sums and you will find the ML or almost any decent 4x4 will do in excess of 100% gradient subject to traction. Refer to the specs on page 79 of the W164 sales brochure- all ML models are rated at 100% gradient. (I cannot find reference on the W166 but they would be the same.)
I will concede I was incorrect to say "any 4x4".
I now exclude any short wheelbase models with a roof rack and load on the roof.
Honda CRV which should never be called a 4x4 as the rear axle only works when the front wheels spin.
Various other small whiz bangs that are really road going cars with no grunt at low speed.
Further I do not wish to discredit the G wagen. It is an incredible vehicle that certainly has great ability. My comments here only suggest that this video does not show the vehicle to its full potential. For instance if the ramps had a 50% side slope at the same time....
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06-04-2012, 07:22 AM
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wow awesome truck..........gay as hell music
06-04-2012, 01:40 PM
#9
Why wouldn't the ML be able to do this? The power is there to go up the incline and the brakes and the tech. is there to go down it. What is so advanced about this?
I think its not what the vehicle is that is most important is the tires. However, if you look closely at the metal ramps it looks like they have some kind of grip on them - you see the holes that show that the ramps increase the grip.
A Ford escape could do this, it has downhill decent, and has a V6 that could take it up also.
A short overhang of the front of the vehicle, gripping tires, and downhill decent control.
ML with off-road package could do this easy. However, in a real off road situation all these SUVs would fail. Because a hill that steep would have some kind of dirt or pebbles that would increase the inablity to control the way the tires grip. Thats why they are doing it on man made material.
Do this on snow, mud, dirt, and see if that SUV doesn't slide down like a college sprayed with PAM.
I think its not what the vehicle is that is most important is the tires. However, if you look closely at the metal ramps it looks like they have some kind of grip on them - you see the holes that show that the ramps increase the grip.
A Ford escape could do this, it has downhill decent, and has a V6 that could take it up also.
A short overhang of the front of the vehicle, gripping tires, and downhill decent control.
ML with off-road package could do this easy. However, in a real off road situation all these SUVs would fail. Because a hill that steep would have some kind of dirt or pebbles that would increase the inablity to control the way the tires grip. Thats why they are doing it on man made material.
Do this on snow, mud, dirt, and see if that SUV doesn't slide down like a college sprayed with PAM.
06-05-2012, 12:17 PM
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Interesting point Greg,
Just checked the brochures and the G wagen has approach departure angles of 36 & 27 degrees respectively
The ML has 26 & 25
or 30 & 28 with Airmatic
or 31 & 29 with OnOffRoad pack
(These figures do not allow for optional AMG kits)
So the G350 will have far greater approach than the ML even with the OnOffRoad pack.
But its departure angle is not as good!
On this demo frame the lowest angle (front or rear) is the crucial one. I have checked the video and the camera pans away so we cannot see the detail of clearance.
But if the specs MB print are correct, the ML with AirMatic will do the climb.
Regardless, if I come to the states and try the Rubicon Trail, I would certainly prefer the G350 provided it had sill rails and a drag bar at the rear bumper. I would never attempt that track in the ML.
Just checked the brochures and the G wagen has approach departure angles of 36 & 27 degrees respectively
The ML has 26 & 25
or 30 & 28 with Airmatic
or 31 & 29 with OnOffRoad pack
(These figures do not allow for optional AMG kits)
So the G350 will have far greater approach than the ML even with the OnOffRoad pack.
But its departure angle is not as good!
On this demo frame the lowest angle (front or rear) is the crucial one. I have checked the video and the camera pans away so we cannot see the detail of clearance.
But if the specs MB print are correct, the ML with AirMatic will do the climb.
Regardless, if I come to the states and try the Rubicon Trail, I would certainly prefer the G350 provided it had sill rails and a drag bar at the rear bumper. I would never attempt that track in the ML.
06-05-2012, 02:32 PM
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2013 ML350BTC
Ian, thanks for posting the angles for the ML in different configurations. The numbers for a 2012 Jeep wrangler are as follows: 44.3 approach, 40.4 departure, and 25.3 breakover. The Wrangler continues to be designed to excel at extreme off-road (and not much else). Its got a 70+ year history of off-road design. The Wrangler Rubicon is probably the only vehicle sold optioned to do the Rubicon trail out of the showroom. You see so many of them being towed in the USA because a vehicle designed to do so well off-road just isn't comfortable and economical on the road. Just goes to show that all engineering is a balance of compromises to meet a set of (often conflicting) objectives.
Notice that MB went to considerable expense (the lever thingy at the top) to avoid having to deal with breakover angle of the G. It would be a much longer structure (gradual breakover at top) without the lever to allow the transition to downhill within G's breakover angle.
Notice that MB went to considerable expense (the lever thingy at the top) to avoid having to deal with breakover angle of the G. It would be a much longer structure (gradual breakover at top) without the lever to allow the transition to downhill within G's breakover angle.
Last edited by AZHiker; 06-05-2012 at 05:22 PM.
06-05-2012, 08:30 PM
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I totally agree with you. I suppose I was just trying to make a point. I would never try to drive my G350 over the Rubicon. Someone elses maybe???
And regarding the Wrangler, maybe you do get options there that we don't see. I thought airlockers were still aftermarket. Difflocks are essential in that nasty country.
And regarding the Wrangler, maybe you do get options there that we don't see. I thought airlockers were still aftermarket. Difflocks are essential in that nasty country.
