"87" Octane Anyone ???
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From: Los Angeles, CA
'22 GLE 350 | '15 ML250 | '87 560SL | '19 GLC 300 | '12 C250 (sold) | '02 ML500 | '98 C230
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R350 2008 4Matic Gasoline
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 706
Likes: 114
From: Los Angeles, CA
'22 GLE 350 | '15 ML250 | '87 560SL | '19 GLC 300 | '12 C250 (sold) | '02 ML500 | '98 C230
So, at the end of the day, I'm sure many will agree, run what the German engineers tell you to run in the vehicles. They don't get any kickbacks off of the higher priced premium gasoline
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R350 2008 4Matic Gasoline
You're not really giving any statistics or analytical data. Yes, of course you can use lower octane gasoline in these engines, but what are you looking for? Better fuel economy? Wanting to save a few bucks at the pump? As an experiment on my old W163, I ran 87 in it for 2 months, and noticed a dip in MPG of about 2, and didn't "feel" that she was running as smooth and had 1 misfire. Knocked back up to 91, and cycled a few tanks -- MPG was restored and was back to her former self.
So, at the end of the day, I'm sure many will agree, run what the German engineers tell you to run in the vehicles. They don't get any kickbacks off of the higher priced premium gasoline
So, at the end of the day, I'm sure many will agree, run what the German engineers tell you to run in the vehicles. They don't get any kickbacks off of the higher priced premium gasoline
Yea i agree..and your points are right ..im more looking into the few but rare ones that are using the 87 octane and the car hasnt blown up on them..or have been using it for a while with no problems...but yea engine knocking is the major downfall in using it...
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From: Chicago area
2015 E400 and 2015 GLK350
The engine management systems in these cars will protect the engines. No physical harm will be allowed to happen.
You won't likely save any money, though. I haven't done the research on a MB, but some Lexus owners did a comparison using premium and regular in the V8 LS430's. They found that they spent fewer dollars per tank of fuel, but they also went fewer miles per tank. It worked out to be just about exactly the same cost per mile. Given that conclusion, why do it?
Also, and this is just my own opinion, if you bought a MB and have to worry about how much you pay for your fuel, you have bought the wrong car.
You won't likely save any money, though. I haven't done the research on a MB, but some Lexus owners did a comparison using premium and regular in the V8 LS430's. They found that they spent fewer dollars per tank of fuel, but they also went fewer miles per tank. It worked out to be just about exactly the same cost per mile. Given that conclusion, why do it?
Also, and this is just my own opinion, if you bought a MB and have to worry about how much you pay for your fuel, you have bought the wrong car.
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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 251
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R350 2008 4Matic Gasoline
The engine management systems in these cars will protect the engines. No physical harm will be allowed to happen.
You won't likely save any money, though. I haven't done the research on a MB, but some Lexus owners did a comparison using premium and regular in the V8 LS430's. They found that they spent fewer dollars per tank of fuel, but they also went fewer miles per tank. It worked out to be just about exactly the same cost per mile. Given that conclusion, why do it?
Also, and this is just my own opinion, if you bought a MB and have to worry about how much you pay for your fuel, you have bought the wrong car.
You won't likely save any money, though. I haven't done the research on a MB, but some Lexus owners did a comparison using premium and regular in the V8 LS430's. They found that they spent fewer dollars per tank of fuel, but they also went fewer miles per tank. It worked out to be just about exactly the same cost per mile. Given that conclusion, why do it?
Also, and this is just my own opinion, if you bought a MB and have to worry about how much you pay for your fuel, you have bought the wrong car.
Yea...i get what your sayin..but for some instances its been the other way arround..for example in my case the Premium gets drunk faster then a Cocacola in a hot desert" ..plus doing the Math on Premium gas for v6-v8 engines its about another Car note a Month more..might as well get a darn Tesla Lease with the money being tossed at Premium grade...thats where im at right now though...maybe depends on the engine but on mine specifically its the other way arround...premium is like sweet liquor for my R350 and 87 grade is a normal flow and trips to the gas station...not so bad...i kinda stumbled onto this theory ..dont get me wrong..on my E320 Premium only Mobil 1 and Shell touched it ..and gas Miliage was way better than anytime i ran 87 Octane for maybe 2-3 instances....im just getting imput from diffrent sources right now in the moment to better judge it by trial and error...Thanks for your imput Anyone else would like to Share ? Im all ears ...
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A gaggle of MB's
About 1/2 the fuel cost savings of 87 versus 91 is "lost" due to lower fuel economy - it's the way it works out - less "boom power" a bit less "mpg"..
Overall any potential "savings" will be determined by 87 vrs 91 fuel price differential ... you can do the math and decide what you feel you "might" save...
Regardless of what you choose to burn .. I recommend a 1/2 $6 bottle Stabil Marine Fuel Stabilizer (Blue) bottle to clean up all the messy pump fuel additives we have here in
the US..
Overall any potential "savings" will be determined by 87 vrs 91 fuel price differential ... you can do the math and decide what you feel you "might" save...
Regardless of what you choose to burn .. I recommend a 1/2 $6 bottle Stabil Marine Fuel Stabilizer (Blue) bottle to clean up all the messy pump fuel additives we have here in
the US..
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Thread Starter
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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 251
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R350 2008 4Matic Gasoline
About 1/2 the fuel cost savings of 87 versus 91 is "lost" due to lower fuel economy - it's the way it works out - less "boom power" a bit less "mpg"..
Overall any potential "savings" will be determined by 87 vrs 91 fuel price differential ... you can do the math and decide what you feel you "might" save...
Regardless of what you choose to burn .. I recommend a 1/2 $6 bottle Stabil Marine Fuel Stabilizer (Blue) bottle to clean up all the messy pump fuel additives we have here in
the US..
Overall any potential "savings" will be determined by 87 vrs 91 fuel price differential ... you can do the math and decide what you feel you "might" save...
Regardless of what you choose to burn .. I recommend a 1/2 $6 bottle Stabil Marine Fuel Stabilizer (Blue) bottle to clean up all the messy pump fuel additives we have here in
the US..
Yea that was a debate i had in another forum...on my E320 yea..anything other than Premium would get ****ty Mpg ..but ..on my V6 R350 premium was like sweet Liquor to it..it would get downed so fast in my eyes i was like wtf is going on here...seriously ..switched back and forth a bit..then noticed a more stable on 87 ..but that might just be this engine..and maybe another GL class that i heard recently about..and another series sedan that i heard before took it well....well see...are there any others out here ??
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From: ALLENTOWN PA
2017 AMG GT, 2015 ML350, 2013 C300
I have done this a couple of times. A full tank and all. No fault of mine. I blame NJ for not able to pump your own gas. This is my daily and my commute is over 600 miles a week so I gas up twice a week.
The engine ran fine but you can tell there is some power missing. I didn't dare push the car more than your normal driving.
The engine ran fine but you can tell there is some power missing. I didn't dare push the car more than your normal driving.
Thread Starter
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R350 2008 4Matic Gasoline
I have done this a couple of times. A full tank and all. No fault of mine. I blame NJ for not able to pump your own gas. This is my daily and my commute is over 600 miles a week so I gas up twice a week.
The engine ran fine but you can tell there is some power missing. I didn't dare push the car more than your normal driving.
The engine ran fine but you can tell there is some power missing. I didn't dare push the car more than your normal driving.
Yea maybe it was the engine slowly weening itself or adjust itself to the 87" ive figured out is not really what we think but what Engine and year and Model of series that will allow this to be done...
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Joined: Sep 2018
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2015 ML400
I've done this over the years in a multitude of Mercedes, Porsche & BMW's. A variety of miles, different oil's and other aspects including tuning as well as aftermarket computers. I've torn apart engines. Inspected fuel logs. What I found is this:
The newer the engine the fewer the differences. Newer engines have better materials, tighter tolerances, and overall better fuel injections systems. Also fuel is better and more uniform.
I also did oil analysis. This supported my findings. The newer the engine and car the more forgiving it was to longer intervals for oil changes and different fuels.
I also owned a shop, that based on my records in 35 years we did over 130 engine rebuilds.
Does anyone want to know what our findings were? Most engine rebuilds were due to coolant. If you let an engine sit long enough with old coolant, head gaskets failed. corrosion is a chemical process that is accelerated based on metals combined and added moisture and other chemical factors.
Most rebuilds could have reused rod and main bearings. Head gaskets and corrosion corrosion cost more money to repair. Valve stem issues plagued BMW. Gasket failures allowed contaminants to enter the oil system.
Plastic parts failed due to heat cycles... radiator end caps and plastic hose fittings that failed caused very expensive engine repairs.
Your welcome.
Buy cars less than 3 years old and sell by 5 years or purchase a service contract.
Buy a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry if you want reliability. Also keep in mind... no driving excitement.
done
The newer the engine the fewer the differences. Newer engines have better materials, tighter tolerances, and overall better fuel injections systems. Also fuel is better and more uniform.
I also did oil analysis. This supported my findings. The newer the engine and car the more forgiving it was to longer intervals for oil changes and different fuels.
I also owned a shop, that based on my records in 35 years we did over 130 engine rebuilds.
Does anyone want to know what our findings were? Most engine rebuilds were due to coolant. If you let an engine sit long enough with old coolant, head gaskets failed. corrosion is a chemical process that is accelerated based on metals combined and added moisture and other chemical factors.
Most rebuilds could have reused rod and main bearings. Head gaskets and corrosion corrosion cost more money to repair. Valve stem issues plagued BMW. Gasket failures allowed contaminants to enter the oil system.
Plastic parts failed due to heat cycles... radiator end caps and plastic hose fittings that failed caused very expensive engine repairs.
Your welcome.
Buy cars less than 3 years old and sell by 5 years or purchase a service contract.
Buy a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry if you want reliability. Also keep in mind... no driving excitement.
done
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Joined: May 2017
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From: Montreal/Cape Coral FL
2012 X6 35i Sport, 2013 ML 350 BT, 2019 4Runner TRD Pro, 2020 CRV-AWD
Guess who's changing out the coolant on all his vehicles? LOL
Last edited by peter2772000; Nov 15, 2018 at 05:01 AM.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 251
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R350 2008 4Matic Gasoline
I've done this over the years in a multitude of Mercedes, Porsche & BMW's. A variety of miles, different oil's and other aspects including tuning as well as aftermarket computers. I've torn apart engines. Inspected fuel logs. What I found is this:
The newer the engine the fewer the differences. Newer engines have better materials, tighter tolerances, and overall better fuel injections systems. Also fuel is better and more uniform.
I also did oil analysis. This supported my findings. The newer the engine and car the more forgiving it was to longer intervals for oil changes and different fuels.
I also owned a shop, that based on my records in 35 years we did over 130 engine rebuilds.
Does anyone want to know what our findings were? Most engine rebuilds were due to coolant. If you let an engine sit long enough with old coolant, head gaskets failed. corrosion is a chemical process that is accelerated based on metals combined and added moisture and other chemical factors.
Most rebuilds could have reused rod and main bearings. Head gaskets and corrosion corrosion cost more money to repair. Valve stem issues plagued BMW. Gasket failures allowed contaminants to enter the oil system.
Plastic parts failed due to heat cycles... radiator end caps and plastic hose fittings that failed caused very expensive engine repairs.
Your welcome.
Buy cars less than 3 years old and sell by 5 years or purchase a service contract.
Buy a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry if you want reliability. Also keep in mind... no driving excitement.
done
The newer the engine the fewer the differences. Newer engines have better materials, tighter tolerances, and overall better fuel injections systems. Also fuel is better and more uniform.
I also did oil analysis. This supported my findings. The newer the engine and car the more forgiving it was to longer intervals for oil changes and different fuels.
I also owned a shop, that based on my records in 35 years we did over 130 engine rebuilds.
Does anyone want to know what our findings were? Most engine rebuilds were due to coolant. If you let an engine sit long enough with old coolant, head gaskets failed. corrosion is a chemical process that is accelerated based on metals combined and added moisture and other chemical factors.
Most rebuilds could have reused rod and main bearings. Head gaskets and corrosion corrosion cost more money to repair. Valve stem issues plagued BMW. Gasket failures allowed contaminants to enter the oil system.
Plastic parts failed due to heat cycles... radiator end caps and plastic hose fittings that failed caused very expensive engine repairs.
Your welcome.
Buy cars less than 3 years old and sell by 5 years or purchase a service contract.
Buy a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry if you want reliability. Also keep in mind... no driving excitement.
done
Wow ..Thanks for your findings my friend..how often should we change our coolant then ? Every 2 years for sure ?
Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 179
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From: Southeast Florida
06 SLK55 AMG, 12 R350
Bear in mind I'm in Floriduh, no steep hills.
87 octane costs about 8% - 10% less down here. As far as the mileage hit goes, I haven't seen it when running regular, but then I'm not taking notes on a spreadsheet either... Could there be a hit? Possibly. A 8% - 10% hit, I doubt it.
I have felt a subtle performance hit on some of my other cars, but not so much on my '12 m276 R350. Bottom line is when I feel like spending an extra $10 per tank (which is about half the time), I run the premium. My SLK55 only gets the premium.
87 octane costs about 8% - 10% less down here. As far as the mileage hit goes, I haven't seen it when running regular, but then I'm not taking notes on a spreadsheet either... Could there be a hit? Possibly. A 8% - 10% hit, I doubt it.
I have felt a subtle performance hit on some of my other cars, but not so much on my '12 m276 R350. Bottom line is when I feel like spending an extra $10 per tank (which is about half the time), I run the premium. My SLK55 only gets the premium.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 251
Likes: 13
R350 2008 4Matic Gasoline
Bear in mind I'm in Floriduh, no steep hills.
87 octane costs about 8% - 10% less down here. As far as the mileage hit goes, I haven't seen it when running regular, but then I'm not taking notes on a spreadsheet either... Could there be a hit? Possibly. A 8% - 10% hit, I doubt it.
I have felt a subtle performance hit on some of my other cars, but not so much on my '12 m276 R350. Bottom line is when I feel like spending an extra $10 per tank (which is about half the time), I run the premium. My SLK55 only gets the premium.
87 octane costs about 8% - 10% less down here. As far as the mileage hit goes, I haven't seen it when running regular, but then I'm not taking notes on a spreadsheet either... Could there be a hit? Possibly. A 8% - 10% hit, I doubt it.
I have felt a subtle performance hit on some of my other cars, but not so much on my '12 m276 R350. Bottom line is when I feel like spending an extra $10 per tank (which is about half the time), I run the premium. My SLK55 only gets the premium.
Yup...i feel this as more of a Engine/Car specific choice..some cars take only Premium...some can maybe run the regular ...you have to just see if your Car is one of the few that might tolerate it...i knew my E320 would not tolerate so i wouldnt use it..i guess cars so far that i am seeing this used on right now have been the RClass and some GL Class and some M ..
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MB’s of all kinds.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,837
Likes: 598
From: NY & FL
MB’s of all kinds.
I've done this over the years in a multitude of Mercedes, Porsche & BMW's. A variety of miles, different oil's and other aspects including tuning as well as aftermarket computers. I've torn apart engines. Inspected fuel logs. What I found is this:
The newer the engine the fewer the differences. Newer engines have better materials, tighter tolerances, and overall better fuel injections systems. Also fuel is better and more uniform.
I also did oil analysis. This supported my findings. The newer the engine and car the more forgiving it was to longer intervals for oil changes and different fuels.
I also owned a shop, that based on my records in 35 years we did over 130 engine rebuilds.
Does anyone want to know what our findings were? Most engine rebuilds were due to coolant. If you let an engine sit long enough with old coolant, head gaskets failed. corrosion is a chemical process that is accelerated based on metals combined and added moisture and other chemical factors.
Most rebuilds could have reused rod and main bearings. Head gaskets and corrosion corrosion cost more money to repair. Valve stem issues plagued BMW. Gasket failures allowed contaminants to enter the oil system.
Plastic parts failed due to heat cycles... radiator end caps and plastic hose fittings that failed caused very expensive engine repairs.
Your welcome.
Buy cars less than 3 years old and sell by 5 years or purchase a service contract.
Buy a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry if you want reliability. Also keep in mind... no driving excitement.
done
The newer the engine the fewer the differences. Newer engines have better materials, tighter tolerances, and overall better fuel injections systems. Also fuel is better and more uniform.
I also did oil analysis. This supported my findings. The newer the engine and car the more forgiving it was to longer intervals for oil changes and different fuels.
I also owned a shop, that based on my records in 35 years we did over 130 engine rebuilds.
Does anyone want to know what our findings were? Most engine rebuilds were due to coolant. If you let an engine sit long enough with old coolant, head gaskets failed. corrosion is a chemical process that is accelerated based on metals combined and added moisture and other chemical factors.
Most rebuilds could have reused rod and main bearings. Head gaskets and corrosion corrosion cost more money to repair. Valve stem issues plagued BMW. Gasket failures allowed contaminants to enter the oil system.
Plastic parts failed due to heat cycles... radiator end caps and plastic hose fittings that failed caused very expensive engine repairs.
Your welcome.
Buy cars less than 3 years old and sell by 5 years or purchase a service contract.
Buy a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry if you want reliability. Also keep in mind... no driving excitement.
done
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 747
Likes: 178
From: NorCal
2015 ML350+2025 E350
The engine management systems in these cars will protect the engines. No physical harm will be allowed to happen.
You won't likely save any money, though. I haven't done the research on a MB, but some Lexus owners did a comparison using premium and regular in the V8 LS430's. They found that they spent fewer dollars per tank of fuel, but they also went fewer miles per tank. It worked out to be just about exactly the same cost per mile. Given that conclusion, why do it?
Also, and this is just my own opinion, if you bought a MB and have to worry about how much you pay for your fuel, you have bought the wrong car.
You won't likely save any money, though. I haven't done the research on a MB, but some Lexus owners did a comparison using premium and regular in the V8 LS430's. They found that they spent fewer dollars per tank of fuel, but they also went fewer miles per tank. It worked out to be just about exactly the same cost per mile. Given that conclusion, why do it?
Also, and this is just my own opinion, if you bought a MB and have to worry about how much you pay for your fuel, you have bought the wrong car.
Higher octane fuel has greater resistance to 'knocking' (fuel detonating before being ignited by spark), especially in higher compression engines. Plus, higher compression, naturally aspirated engines tend to be able to get a better performance (customer demand), AND, better fuel economy (government demand) combination with Premium. Even though the engine is equipped with a clever anti-knock sensor, many manufacturers recommend Premium grade fuels for this reason.. That said, you can use Regular grade, but may experience a loss of some performance and/or fuel economy, negating any overall cost savings.
Last edited by Cao Black; Nov 23, 2018 at 01:23 AM.
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From: TX
2023 GLE3502W, 2024 GLC3002W, 1967 Pontiac GTO 4 sp (sold...sniff)
While not germane to the driveability question, what pi$$es me off is the price differential between 87 and 93 at many stations. I fill up at Costco whenever I can. 93 is $2.40 and 87 is $2.10. The local EXXON is $2.30 for 87 and $3.10 for 93. I get the $.20 diff for 87 as it defines "convenience store". But I don't get the $.80 diff for 93. Because we drive a car that needs 91/93 we shouldn't have to subsidize the 87 buyers. If i need 15 gals, I can drive to Costco (30 miles r/t) and waste 2 gals at $2.40 ttl $4.80 and come out ahead $7.20. That's not all bad as the Costco station is next to my MB dealer. I stop in for a free car wash, a soda, and a chat with my very friendly service adviser. The wash would cost me $6.00 locally and let's call the Hagen Das /soda $2.00. The $15.20 sorta compensates for my time.
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Posts: 1,234
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From: Montreal/Cape Coral FL
2012 X6 35i Sport, 2013 ML 350 BT, 2019 4Runner TRD Pro, 2020 CRV-AWD
We fill up our X6 with 91 Rec gas @ +/- 30 cents higher than 93 super, this ethanol crap causes more problems than it supposedly fixes. Then again, the Beemer is our Florida car and maybe gets 1-2k miles a year, so the extra for Rec gas is negligible.
