TwinTurboTim

Race gas is getting expensive all the time. Has anyone actually tried to size up injectors and run it.

shardul

iTrader: (1)

it is possible. more than mechanical I think the challenge will be to scale them
I think you will get about 100 miles to the tank on E85

TwinTurboTim

Even at 100 miles a tank. It would probably be better then 7 bucks a gallon for 110 Octane. Thanks for the laptop it is sure awesome! I'm sure I will have a million questions.

C3Duece

there's always torco

TwinTurboTim

at what $10 a gallon?

DarthVader2

Even if you go through the trouble of swapping out injectors and even upgrading fuel pump to increase the flow and the tune to support them.

To make those injectors and E85 really shine, how do we get these stock turbos to pack 30+ psi of boost?

TwinTurboTim

You wouldn't need 30 plus psi. The fact that the turbos are so small and heat the air so much is why it would be so beneficial. E85 is a natural intercooler I have found and will make bigger numbers when used with small turbos.

DarthVader2

If my goal is to make 1200+rwhp, it's going to be difficult with less than 30 psi. Have you seen some of these Nissan GT-R running with 1400+whp on the street? I'm pretty sure they're running close to 40 psi of boost to get those numbers from only 3.8L.

I'm not sure if I buy the fact that E85 is a natural intercooler. E85 does have an effective octane of up to 105 which is why you can run more boost, but you'll need to feed the motor 3x the volume than race gas. On the flip side of that coin, you can run even more boost with higher octane race gas such as VP-MS109 or Torco 118. Yes, I know it cost more than E85 but remember you don't need 3x the volume or prepping your fuel system for E85 so the cost difference isn't so bad considering that. I wouldn't be running them all the time, only for special event. I would have the boost turn down for regular driving.

As for making big power with small turbos, I'm not sure if I agree with that. If you can make X amount of whp with the small stock turbos, I'm pretty sure you can make much more power with bigger turbos. The only benefit of small turbo I believe would be a shorter lag time. With 6.0L V12, I don't need full boost at low RPM.

TwinTurboTim

Im looking for for answers from experience. I dont really care what you think but thanks for your opinion. You might want to test your theory on 3 times more fuel. In my experiences I have had to use 20% more fuel and at most 30% more at wot but generally 20%. As far as octane yes E85 has a RON + MON rating of 105 but again do some more studying on the differences of motor octace vs research octane and you will find people experiences of why E85 will beat some other similar octane fuels when we used with either high boost or smaller turbos. I try to post my information from what I have done but not so much what I think. The internet is filled with what people think. Thanks.

roadtalontsi

e85 will make more torque than regular race gas. Its known for taking out rods, even built ones. It'll be interesting to see what a v12 can really do with it, even without 30psi you've still got plenty of room for ignition timing.

chawkins2001

I am on e85, although the M113K platform. I run 1000cc injectors.

Extreme Dimensions

That's the beauty of E85! You can run high timing without knocking. However, a big problem with E85...is that it wont knock....you just end up melting pistons (even forged), plugs, heads.....























Round 2:

TwinTurboTim

Do you have a E85 specific tune? How did your pump work out?

TwinTurboTim

I would look for a new tuner

Extreme Dimensions

........

Self tuned.....LMFAO. You live and learn.

Tim is correct, typically you use 30% more e85 in comparison to regular fuel.

TwinTurboTim

Yeah been there done that. No shame. Its always good to learn on our own cars.

TwinTurboTim

I was trying to figure out, is that a Honda head?

Extreme Dimensions

4Cylinder, yes. 4G63T. Forged internals, 8500+RPM Redline,40psi on a twin scroll set up, full boost by 3800rpms. good for 10.9X 1/4s, half a dozen head gaskets, three heads, and two diffentials lol. R.I.P.

She was no MB, but (high) 10 second passes for under 10k? Yes please.



PS: Sorry to threadjack.

TwinTurboTim

You see I have a DSM also. Mine is a 2.4 4G64. I had to plug the holes in the deck of the block so I was confused because I didnt remember plugging anything that was oval like on your head but maybe that is one of the ones I didn't plug. It has been a couple years. Just knew it looked familiar. Yeah my MB will never launch like my Talon. I can only wish that it would. And yes talk about the cheapest platform to build. Nothing beats them for bang for the buck. Good to hear another DSMer turned MB.

radride

First off, to achieve the same HP on E85 as pump you will need 30% more injector. In the CL65 I'm not sure what size the injectors are so if for example they're 500cc, you'll need 650cc injectors just to make the same HP you are now. If you want to make more power, you'll have to increase the size of injector accordingly. That's your first issue. Next will be the size of fuel lines and what they're made out of. The CL65 is not ethanol friendly and eventually your rubber lines will be toast. Finally, you'll need at least two ethanol compatible pumps in the fuel tank. Now you're ready to make power.

R.K.

TwinTurboTim

We already discussed the 30% so we understand the concept. I know the injectors are the issue. Just wondering if anyone has done it? Im guessing you have never ran E85 in many cars because I have converted many cars and motorcycles and not had a single problem with any car built after the 90's. As far as 2 pumps. You don't think the factory over engineers cars with some margin of overkill. We did a car a while back that makes 255 crank horse by the books. This car ended up making 433 wheel horse on E85 before fuel pressure ever became an issue. The customer only did this because its 7hrs of labor to drop the suspension to do a pump so he let us run it as high as we could on the stock pump. Sorry for the rant but I was just asking if anyone has actually tried it.

Extreme Dimensions

I never changed the fuel lines in my 1990 DSM on e85, or on my 99 DSM on e85.

You will also need e85 compatible fuel filter, as not all fuel filters can handle it.

IMPORTANT: routinely inspect your injectors, as E85 can cause "gunk" build up on the injectors. a clogged injector is a dangerous injector.

hpV12

To the op, since you've done conversions before why not on the CL?

chawkins2001

I got a E85 tune from Buckhead-Imports Performance here in Atlanta. They did the complete build on my E55. I have gone through several Aeromotive 340lph pumps and just recently switch to AEM 320lph specific E85 pumps. Be very careful with what pumps you go with as not all of them can handle the corn.

TwinTurboTim

I probably will end up doing it. Just looking for guidance if anyone has done it and if there are any cold start issues or unknown issues that I may not know about.