This is unbelievable! How can they put on a race with just six cars???

They could've just put in a chicane there and put on a race, but noooooo, the FIA has to lay their stupidity in again.

 

man a lot of people are going to be pissed. they paid top dollar to buy tickets and for what 6 cars. F1 =

 

looks like ferrari might win one this year. fia is screwed up. they could of added the chicane.

 

This is a disgrace.

 

I just got back from Indy. We stayed for about 20 laps. Michelin screwed up big time-they are going to be in so much trouble in Europe. The fans, especially the Europeans, were so pissed. It was a steady stream of people leaving after only a couple of laps.

IMHO, it was Michelin's problem, not the FIA's. They just wanted an advantage and when they couldn't get it, they packed up and went home. They had two tire failures, both from the same team. Uh, maybe it wasn't just the tires??

 

I have to agree it is sad to see only 6 cars race, but changing the track to help other teams is not fair. In the early races this season when Bridgestone was struggling, no one cared or changed the tracks to help them. It would be unfair to the Bridgestone runners to change the track because Michelin tires were weak at turn 13.

 

This was the FIA's fault for not fixing a problem that was presented to them. It is the FIA that gurantees how many cars will race, not Michelin.

 

FIA, IS A JOKE! I know so many people who traveled along way to that race, this is the first yr i haven't gone from oregon I would of been even more pissed if i went out there for that! a bunch of idiots, spectators should get there money back or atleast half! there is other good racing other than the f1 cars so it wouldn't be a total bust. can somone say lawsuit!

 

Don't laugh, but could someone please explain what happened here? And, what's a chicane? I have recently started to watch F1 (have always DESPISED ALL motor sports), but F1 is pretty cool. Even bought a Kimi Mclaren/Mercedes hat!! A lot more interesting than cars just going around in circles. I can appreciate the skill and technology, but seems like there are some odd rules and somewhat political.

 

The idea of changing the track to suit some of the competitors is disgusting. I hate Ferrari, but did anyone remember earlier this year when they had to withdraw one of thier cars because of tire problems? They didn't ask for special treatment, and really Michelin shouldn't have either. The thing is, the majority of the field was on the back foot, so to say.

Charlie Whiting was correct in saying that the only problem was with Michelin. No one else did anything wrong. I hate that this happened, don't get me wrong. But the rules are the rules.

By the way, maybe Michelin really did drop the ball. After the track was resurfaced over the winter, there were big problems for the first test of the Indycars and Nascars. The first time each one had a test scheduled, it was cancelled - because of the changes to the surface. Now, they all got it sorted out - and guess who is the same company as Firestone? Bridgestone! I'm sure they got some input and that made all the difference.

At least we didn't lose any ground on Alonso, though.

 

I read that Michelin flew in new tires to Indy but the FIA would not allow the Michelin teams to change to the new tires. Why not???? They could have let them and let the Bridgestone teams change to new rubber also.

The FIA put politics above the sport and the fans ultimately paid the price. The Michelin teams could have used their strength in numbers and just changed the tires and go racing and let the FIA sort it out afterwards.

Unfriggingbelievable!! I could not believe what happened. What a pathetic show they called a race. I think they could have just erected a chicane and go racing. It's been done before. But on the flip side, Bridgestone should not have to give up their advantage because Michelin was unprepared. It was just an unfortunate situation that developed and no one wanted to budge and give on their position. So in the end, the fans basically ate it.

This will not go down well. It is the end of F1 at Indy, if not the USA. I'm sure the FIA will be shopping for other venues in the U.S., such as Long Beach or Watkins Glen. Do I feel sorry for Tony George? Not a bit, although this was not his fault. I can't forgive him for causing the CART/IRL split and ruining open wheel racing in America.

Americans, who are already fuzzy about F1 will wonder why the supposedly best racing cars and drivers in the world were unable to race at Indy when just two weeks ago, the lesser Indy cars did at much higher speeds. And with a woman driver, no less!

It's not too suprising that this happened. After all, F1 has always been about politics. This just gave a huge boost to the formation of the GPWC. What a disappointment for the fans who attended and took vacation time and spent money for hotels and flights.

 

Michelin didn't want an "advantage". They simply didn't want the same tires that work OK on all other F1 tracks to cause someone to die on the newly renovated and highly abrasive Indy track. Firestone/Bridgestone has LOTS of experience with the "new" Indy surface vs. Michelin. Had they gone with the chicane at turn 13, let Bridgestone runners have the first 3 rows at start and given zero points to all Michelin finishers, FANS would have been more satisfied. Fans just wanted to see a race today, but got dry-screwed instead, PERIOD!

 

I've been a fan of F1 since GP sensation Jimmy Clark came across the pond to win the 1965 Indy 500. I have taped every F1 race available to me since 1982. (No, I don't make copies for people).

If Michelin said they can't guarantee the SAFETY of the tires, that creates a liability situation in which the Michelin runners could not compete. To ignore the warning, meant the possibility that an accident could occur in which debris could enter the grandstands to injure fans, in the most lawsuit-happy venue on the F1 calendar (the USA). No one wants that.

It matters not one little bit whether Michelin brought the right tires to the track, or whether the Bridgestone runners would be unfairly penalized for being properly prepared if accomodation were made to the Michelin runners.

What DOES matter is that the FIA is responsible for presenting "the show." It's an entertainment business. If anyone doubts this, simply think back to the 1981-82 parking lot races in Las Vegas. Bernie Ecclestone surpassed even his own greedy self with a desire to place commercial above sporting interests, resulting in the poorest excuse for a venue ever foisted on any racing fan base. It's about the money, folks, and damaging one's own cash cow bankroll in the name of "the sporting regulations" is simply masochistic, as much as ludicrous.

When 70% of the cars can't compete, it's the FIA's job to make accomodations... so the show can go on. They have done so countless times in the past... The only race ever held in Dallas (1984) went forward in spite of high temperatures that tore up the entire track. Why? because the show must go on. Just last week, the FIA oversaw the overnight repaving of several turns in Montreal to ensure that race was not cancelled. This situation in Indy was no different. A chicane should have been installed... not an ideal situation, but at least all cars would have then competed on a level playing field. More importantly, the fans would have been served, and the money juggernaut would have proceeded without a hitch. As it is now, the FIA has chosen to shoot itself in the foot, instead. Pitiful.

I'm no fan of Tony George, but I hope he has a clause in his contract with the FIA that provides for breech if the FIA fails to put enough cars on the track. If so, George should sue the FIA for return of the hefty licensing fee he pays every year, and all expenses, including the entire amount of the gate proceeds for all 100,000 tickets sold this year, so he can refund the money to the fans. Here in Dallas, Texas Motor Speedway did exactly this when the CART race failed to perform their show some years ago.

This is a shameful, disgusting situation, in which political infighting within the FIA was allowed to over-ride the primary function of F1... entertaining the fans. Shame on you, Max Mosley/Bernie E, and all those stuck-up beaurocrats at the FIA. Indy is one of the top three F1 venues in terms of fan attendance, but as far as I'm concerned, they could never come back to the US and I wouldn't care one bit.

 

Everyone is missing the point here. The FIA gave them the option to run the new tires they brought in-Michelin & the Michelin Teams chose not to take that option. They would have been assesed a penalty (most likely having to start from the pit lane), but it wouldn't have been the joke it was. Here is the text of the letter from Charlie Whiting of the FIA to Michelin and the Michelin teams:

Dear Mr Dupasquier,
Dear Mr Shorrock,

Thank you for your letter of today's date.

As explained in our earlier letter, your teams have a choice of running more slowly in Turn 12/13, running a tyre not used in qualifying (which would attract a penalty) or repeatedly changing a tyre (subject to valid safety reasons).

It is for them to decide. We have nothing to add.

Yours sincerely,

Charlie Whiting
FIA Formula One Race Director


____

This is more about the teams wanting more of a say and being able to write the rules themselves than about the tires-the FIA gave them 3 options. Keep in mind, only one team has signed on past the 2007 season with the FIA. Speculation is that the teams will start their own series and Bernie, with his $3.7 billion fortune, will no longer run the show.

 

The FIA did they're job. All the teams came to the race with a race package that needed to conform to the rules. The fact that Michelin could not supply a tire that could do the business has nothing to do with the FIA or Bernie. They are only the Referees.

The only teams who did nothing wrong were Ferrari & Jordon. Did they not have a problem with race tires in previous races? Didn't hear them asking for the race to be cancelled or that the circuit be re-set out to suit them

This is not about anything other than Michelin letting the entire racing fraternity down. They have tarnished the sport and probably single handedly killed F1 in USA

The really funny thing about the whole affair, the reason they changed the tire rules to one set over the race weekend was to stop Ferrari from dominating F1.

Back fired big time

 

When a racecar has crummy equipment, whether it be a faulty engine, electronics, or tires, etc, the race team and driver deal with it. And if it means parking their car or reducing speeds in certain sections of the racetrack, so be it. They deal with adversity during races all the time and make adjustments to compensate for bad equipment. It happens all the time. They shouldn't go crying to the race organizers saying, "compared to our competition, we have crummy equipment so you have to alter the race track to accommodate our crappy car...".

Michelin came totally unprepared and they and the Michelin teams refused to take responsibility for their actions and then tried to pass blame for their own mistakes by saying the race organizers won't alter the racetrack. Bridgestone teams seemed to be able to work within the rules. Changing or bending the rules is completely unfair to the teams that came prepared. As mentioned above, you didn't hear Bridgestone teams complain earlier this year trying to get the rules changed.

Somehow I don't think the top-tier Michelin teams wanted to be seen being lapped by Minardis, and also found a way to try and give the FIA a blackeye while showing solidarity for their own breakaway GP race series. So they decided not to race and to spin the blame for their inadequacies elsewhere. According to SpeedTV, if I remember right, Michelin did test for Indy but used Massa and Davidson as the test drivers. Oh yeah, Michelin sure was doing their best to prepare

I put blame squarely on Michelin and secondarily on the Michelin teams not pushing Michelin harder to test at Indy. Did not the Michelin teams watch the month of the Indy500 and see that the track conditions MIGHT have changed with the regrinding? In this day and age it seems it's okay for people and companies to not accept responsibility for their actions. Sad.

 

well said

 

What a turn of events. I was at the track... I knew about the possibility since Sat night because I brought my laptop with me... but every fan I talked to had no idea. The fans around me were surprised and didn't believe me that there might be only 6 cars in the race. During driver presentation Montoya, who is usually cheery in this race, had a blank stare and didn't acknowledge his fans who were in full force (I guess he's not good at hiding his emotions). Then the show started.... Minardi and then Jordan drove out of the pits to everyone's delight. Then Ferrari drove out and the cheers were defeaning. Then nothing. No other teams came out for about 2-3 minutes. At that point I started thinking that they would not come out after all. Then all of a sudden the remaining teams came out together (no doubt at the very last possible moment). At that point I though that they must have just sorted it out and we would see a race after all. I was relieved and pumped. All the drivers went through the usual motions in the starting grid (MS was his usual, plastic self). I was in the main straight exactly in front of the Ferrari pit. Formation lap starts and the crowd went wild... even I thought I was in for a great race at that point. The rest is history.

I would say about 90% of the people there had no idea of what was going on. Most were extremely angry and booed anyone who came out of the pits. When I get home I'll post pictures of disgruntled fans.

I think this is the end of the USGP... at least in Indy. I was listening to a mostly Nascar/IRL AM station on the drive back, and all the rednecks were up in arms! THe opinions wer etoo funny... here's a few that stood out:

-Tear down the F1 course and build a half mile oval for outlaws... show these europeans what real racing is about
-Have Tony George create an alternate F1 series so he can take over and do it like it's supposed to (Heck, he did it once already with IRL taking over CART)
-Bring in standby Nascar or IRL drivers who are "real men" and race the cars the sissy europeans won't.

The worse thing about it all is that the host said to all this "Good Point! I hope the Hulman family is taking note".

I'm sure many class action lawsuits were being written even before the race ended.

 

OK, so who has to pick up the pieces of this shambles after the fact? Is it the drivers? no. Michelin or Bridgestone? Hardly. Tony George and IMS? Certainly not. The teams? No. So, who is left to attempt to recover the situation? Who is the one with the most to lose?

It's Formula One Management, and the FIA, plain and simple. If the teams don't show, they have no race. and the fans around the world think twice about attending the next race. It's obvious there are politics involved in this situation. The FOM/FIA wants only one tire manufacturer. But so what? The FOM wants to teach the teams who is boss... Bernie has had this attitude for 20 years. But who outside of this argument cares? No one. Do the fans care about the politics? Absolutely not. They only care that when they spend their money and travel hundreds/thousands of miles to see the race, that they see a full show.

At the end of the day, the FOM and it's FIA governing body is responsible for delivering the full package, if it has any interest in preserving itself. You can talk about rules and fairness all day long. But in the end, none of it matters. The FOM has let it's fight with the teams get in the way of providing the show, a complete loss of priorities, imo. The proof of this will be the worldwide backlash against the sport, for which only the FOM/FIA and its benefactors will suffer.

 

Hi everyone,
What happened at Indianapolis was an absolute disgrace. An embarrassment to Formula One and an embarrassment to those of us that love this type of motor racing.

Unfortunately the cause of this farce is not easy to explain (or understand)

For a number of years now the FIA (Bernie Ecclestone) has been getting more and more dictatorial and is loosing touch with the real roots of this great Formula. Ferrari have become intertwined with Ecclestone and all the other teams are being bullied into doing what they are told.

In the year 2008 there will be only one tyre manufacturer for this Formula, at present there are two. Bridgestone and Michelin.

Bridgestone supply Ferrari.......... The tyre is built for Ferrari racing cars, tested on Ferrari cars and built to Ferrari specifications. Two other teams that are working on extremely tight budgets and are not competitive actually take Bridgestone tyres. Minardi and Jordan

Michelin supply all the other teams and make tyres that are suitable for all the teams, with no favourites.

This week-end the fastest Formula One cars were showing problems with their Michelin tyres. Bridgestone tactfully stood back and alleged that their tyres were okay.

Michelin could not guarantee their product because they were having problems with the high speed banking and the new road surface. (Unfortunately no testing is done in America, but I feel sure that data could have been obtained from other sources)

The outcome was what has been discussed, but what you have all failed to either notice or comment upon was the fact that the six vehicles that cruised around the track were not driving at the speeds they reached during practice, nor were they actually racing. When the fastest car came in for its first pit stop the mechanics took sixteen seconds instead of the usual six or seven to get the car back out onto the track. The reason for this was because the mechanics were examining the suspect tyre on the back left side of the vehicle!! Bridgestone had said their tyres would have no problems and they were confident the tyre would last a full race. Yet the tyre was examined in the minutest of detail.

Michelin had stated that if the speed was reduced for that one bend then the tyres would not have any problems, Bridgestone very craftily said nothing, but during the so called race cars were lapping a whole two seconds a lap slower than they should have been???? If Michelin shod vehicles had lapped at a similar pace then they would certainly NOT have had a problem.

The FIA are now blaming Michelin for this disgraceful farce and saying it 'might' influence the decision on who will supply tyres after the new rules come into effect. What a surprise!!

My personal opinion is that Formula One betrayed its loyal fans that were conned into buying tickets to witness the childish political infighting between the FIA Michelin, and the nine teams that have threatened to break away and form there own racing formula. (All teams apart from Ferrari have had enough of Ecclestone and his FIA)

We have not heard the last of this and no doubt the FIA will be blaming Michelin and the teams that quite rightly refused to race with tyres that were deemed unsafe. The FIA are actually shooting themselves in the foot and perhaps speeding up the decision to form a break away formula.

Before you bury this exciting Formula, just remember that two years ago they were racing around the Indianapolis banking at 200mph in the rain!!!! If these drivers refused to race because they believe the tyres are unsafe, we should listen and not blame them.

Just my two cents worth on this farce that has left me really angry.

John

 

Stated another way... Yes, John I think maybe you and I are on the same page. The FIA has lost sight of the forest for the trees.

I also noticed the Bridgestones were suspect during the race. Apparently Michelin is a bit more cautious about its tires, and maybe Bridgestone not, which explains Bridgestone/Firestone's attitude of being non-disclosive. They have marketed defective SUV tires in the US for years, and have generally played coy at every turn. I haven't bought a Firestone tire in decades.

...And I make my decisions on the entertainment I watch (partly) on the same basis.

 

This was a no-win situation. A lot of very smart business people participated in the decisions, which must have seemed at the time the best ones to make. Were the FIA to cave on this one, they set a precedent: if enough teams object, the rules will be changed without notice. The rules have to be maintained in a sport as competitive as F1.

Everyone with a stake in the decision has lost: Michelin, the Michelin-shod teams, their drivers, the race organizers, and the FIA, even the innocent fans. The sport has been damaged and we would all have wanted something else. I agree, Bob, the FIA is left to pick up the big pieces. How they handle the fallout will be important.

 

Apparently, the only person missing from this so-called smart FIA business team was a strategic advocate. Such a person would have screamed loudly about the big picture, and the public relations ramifications of "sticking to the rules" instead of being flexible.

This debacle surely will not help one bit as the FIA seeks to preserve their governance of F1 going forward. This is a perfect example of winning the battle but losing the war...

 

my opinion....

I think everyone (meaning FIA, individual teams, and MICHELIN) should of all conceded a least a little bit.

- FIA should of allowed the chicane, but then just called it an un-official race, and no points would count towards the championship. Result: Fans got to see a race.

- Individual teams should of come off their high horse, and dealt with the FIA off the track. Their actions were childish, akin to "it's my basketball, I'm going home!" Teams should of ordered their drivers to take it easy on Lap 13. Result: Fans got to see a race.


- MICHELIN, while right in pointing out a potential safety issue that could cost the lives of both drivers and fans, should of also recommended a top safe speed on those tires and assure the teams that this would not happen again, or to urge them to accept the FIA's recommendation to allow change of tires at the team's behest. Result: Fans got to see a race.

Bottom Line:

FIA lost
individual teams lost
MICHELIN lost
fans lost

sad, sad day !

 

Try to remove the bias towards being an MB fan and look towards what's best for the sport. The integrity of the sport must be maintained, meaning no change in rules or track layouts just because a bunch of teams come with inferior equipment. I use the term "inferior" instead of "unsafe" because the Michelin tires were indeed safe. They were safe up to a certain speed. As long as one did not exceed that speed, things would be okay. Breaking or bending one rule weakens them all in the future. It would be a terrible precedent to set. F1 integrity would be ruined. Imagine going to race never knowing what the rules are going to be for that race. Heck, they could even change the rules during the race!

Imagine the scenario if Michelin had tires that could go 250mph and Bridgestones could only go 200mph. Because all race cars could be designed to go 250, does that mean that the race tracks have to be configured in such a way to not allow speeds above 200? I can just imagine the response from the Michelin teams/fans if their cars had their top speed advantage eliminated just because some other teams' tires were deemed unsafe at 201 mph by Bridgestone a day before the race. The problem was Michelin came with inferior/faulty tires uncapable of being competitive with the Bridgestones. One doesn't change the rules at the last minute because someone has uncompetitive equipment. Michelin had ample time to properly prepare for the Indy track. They chose two lower-tier drivers to do the testing, while the top-tier drivers went to Silverstone.

I suppose if McLaren/MB comes up with an engine with 1200hp, it's okay to change the track to make the lesser hp teams more competitve because to make the lower powered engines run at 1200hp might make their engines explode and therefore be deemed unsafe by the manufacturer.

The tire is a component of a complex racecar, treated no differently than any other component. If McLaren's suspension had been deemed unsafe at 175mph, does that give them the right to demand that the racetrack be designed to maximize top speed at 175? No. The fact that the majority of teams used the same inferior equipment makes no difference. The Michelin race car teams simply "hitched their cart to a lame horse".

Changing the rules penalizes any teams that work hard to be in compliance.

Any competitor who shows up for an event unprepared knows they will most likely lose.