Comparing F1 to CART times at Montreal?
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Comparing F1 to CART times at Montreal?
Circuit Gille Villeneuve, Montreal...
F1, June... Juan Pablo Montoya qualified on pole: 1:12:386.
CART, Aug (yesterday)... Christiano DeMatta takes pole: 1:18:959.
DeMatta says the difference is all down to the tires... with equal rubber, both series would be "less than 2 seconds apart."
IMO, I think F1 is at a disadvantage with grooved tires and an 8" narrower chassis. Yet, F1 is still up by 6 1/2 seconds.
What do you think?
F1, June... Juan Pablo Montoya qualified on pole: 1:12:386.
CART, Aug (yesterday)... Christiano DeMatta takes pole: 1:18:959.
DeMatta says the difference is all down to the tires... with equal rubber, both series would be "less than 2 seconds apart."
IMO, I think F1 is at a disadvantage with grooved tires and an 8" narrower chassis. Yet, F1 is still up by 6 1/2 seconds.
What do you think?
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Dunno much about carts,
But I guess it's the power that the F1 cars have that keeps it up?
I remember seeing the F1 Mclaren video v/s some other DTM etc cars,
Was amazing how the F1 car blew the rest,
But I guess it's the power that the F1 cars have that keeps it up?
I remember seeing the F1 Mclaren video v/s some other DTM etc cars,
Was amazing how the F1 car blew the rest,
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I watched the race today... exactly same course as used in F1.
Just my idea, but I think the main performance difference is in the brakes. F1 used carbon fiber discs, while CART used standard steel discs (supposed cost control).
Anyway, watching the cars brake for the hairpin turn, it was obvious to me that the CART racers require much more braking distance than F1... they seem visibly slower negotiating the entire hairpin area. Poor braking would account for alot of the difference in lap times.
I'm sure there's much more to it than that, but maybe this is one element...
Just my idea, but I think the main performance difference is in the brakes. F1 used carbon fiber discs, while CART used standard steel discs (supposed cost control).
Anyway, watching the cars brake for the hairpin turn, it was obvious to me that the CART racers require much more braking distance than F1... they seem visibly slower negotiating the entire hairpin area. Poor braking would account for alot of the difference in lap times.
I'm sure there's much more to it than that, but maybe this is one element...
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ex-C32
Bob, I think the narrower chasis would help more on a twisty course more than a wider, more stable chasis.
Hence my 3600 lbs. and auto-trans. 4-door beating up on wider, lighter, and torquey V8 C5s and Vipers in autocrosses.
Supposedly the F1 is lighter and has more power.
Norm
Hence my 3600 lbs. and auto-trans. 4-door beating up on wider, lighter, and torquey V8 C5s and Vipers in autocrosses.
Supposedly the F1 is lighter and has more power.
Norm
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My thoughts on CART vs F1
Aerodynamic advantage: CART (diffuser tunnels allow cleaner aero than a flat bottom)
Brakes: F1 (carbon/carbon stops WAY better than steel)
Chassis: toss-up (the F1 is much lighter - 1100 vs. 1600 pounds, but CART's wider stance allows for better handling)
HP: F1 (need that extra HP to drag the less effient aero package through the air)
Suspension: CART (F1 needs to run a ridicuously stiff suspension to keep the aerodynamics functioning at peak efficency; the slightly softer suspension provides for better mechanical grip)
Tyres: marginally F1 (a tire war is a huge advantage vs. running a single make; but using full slicks gives much better mechanical grip than the grooved tires)
At Montreal, I'd say that the current F1 lap-time advantage is mainly due to the carbon brakes, with the tires providing the rest of F1's advantage. The better aero package on the CART car cancels out the 100HP advantage of the F1 motors (especially on a track like Montreal - F1 motors with their NA [no turbo-lag] grunt would be a bigger advantage at a slower speed track). I think the suspension/chassis differences more or less even out as well at Montreal as well (again at a slow speed track, F1 would be much better off with it's much lighter chassis). I think that at track like Monza CART would be closest to F1 in lap times. This isn't nearly the braking track that Montreal is and there are several high speed sweepers where the more aerodynamic CART cars could make up time they lost accelerating out of the chicanes (where the lighter, more powerful F1 cars would have the advantage).
Other thoughts/opinions?
BT
Aerodynamic advantage: CART (diffuser tunnels allow cleaner aero than a flat bottom)
Brakes: F1 (carbon/carbon stops WAY better than steel)
Chassis: toss-up (the F1 is much lighter - 1100 vs. 1600 pounds, but CART's wider stance allows for better handling)
HP: F1 (need that extra HP to drag the less effient aero package through the air)
Suspension: CART (F1 needs to run a ridicuously stiff suspension to keep the aerodynamics functioning at peak efficency; the slightly softer suspension provides for better mechanical grip)
Tyres: marginally F1 (a tire war is a huge advantage vs. running a single make; but using full slicks gives much better mechanical grip than the grooved tires)
At Montreal, I'd say that the current F1 lap-time advantage is mainly due to the carbon brakes, with the tires providing the rest of F1's advantage. The better aero package on the CART car cancels out the 100HP advantage of the F1 motors (especially on a track like Montreal - F1 motors with their NA [no turbo-lag] grunt would be a bigger advantage at a slower speed track). I think the suspension/chassis differences more or less even out as well at Montreal as well (again at a slow speed track, F1 would be much better off with it's much lighter chassis). I think that at track like Monza CART would be closest to F1 in lap times. This isn't nearly the braking track that Montreal is and there are several high speed sweepers where the more aerodynamic CART cars could make up time they lost accelerating out of the chicanes (where the lighter, more powerful F1 cars would have the advantage).
Other thoughts/opinions?
BT
