retards! ****'s me off! they canned the one dude.
Formula 1 Australian GP '09 Results *Spoiler*
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Are you sure about that?
And now it seems like golden boy was caught lying and they want to talk to him again...
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74137
And this one is more sensationalist
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headline...01193004.shtml
And now it seems like golden boy was caught lying and they want to talk to him again...
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74137
And this one is more sensationalist
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headline...01193004.shtml
Tee_Tz.
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"STILL MOVING" is a very vague statement. The pace car is doing speeds of ~170mph on the straight to allow for the F1 cars to keep their engines relatively cool. If Lewis was doing 20mph for example, then to me that would be a reason to assume that there is something wrong and overtake. After this incident, in case some car brakes down or has some damage behind the pace car it could potentially create a situation because the car behind him would be very hesitant to overtake.
I agree with this statement which is basically implies that Trulli didn't make it on purpose and therefore at the very least his banishment should have been one position only and not 10 places!!!
This is ecactly the reason that FIA is reviewing the is indent again, take a look at this:
http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/...r-trulli-pass/
It seems that Lewis tried to play a political game again;
"It has now emerged, however, that the World Champion explained to race stewards in Australia that he did not deliberately yield to the Toyota, despite seemingly telling SpeedTV the opposite just minutes before."
"The governing body has also received a copy of McLaren's radio communications from the race, which was not available to race stewards on Sunday night. It is now looking more likely that - if Hamilton is judged to have changed his story - Trulli will reclaim his podium finish, and could mean the Englishman finishes further down the order taking his original fourth position."
I agree with this statement which is basically implies that Trulli didn't make it on purpose and therefore at the very least his banishment should have been one position only and not 10 places!!!
This is ecactly the reason that FIA is reviewing the is indent again, take a look at this:
http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/...r-trulli-pass/
It seems that Lewis tried to play a political game again;
"It has now emerged, however, that the World Champion explained to race stewards in Australia that he did not deliberately yield to the Toyota, despite seemingly telling SpeedTV the opposite just minutes before."
"The governing body has also received a copy of McLaren's radio communications from the race, which was not available to race stewards on Sunday night. It is now looking more likely that - if Hamilton is judged to have changed his story - Trulli will reclaim his podium finish, and could mean the Englishman finishes further down the order taking his original fourth position."
We now know Hamilton did slow to let Trulli pass - wrongly assuming he wasn't allowed to overtake - and Trulli seeing a very slow McLaren ahead pulled to the side, understandably overtook and held the position assuming the car had a problem.
However! The problem was during the final lap, the race steward should of either:
(A) Instructed the Toyota to give back P3 to the McLaren as the McLaren had incorrectly relinquished position (as Trulli/Toyota must have noticed Lewis began running fine right behind the Toyota and I'm sure they were inquirying with the race stewarts anyway).
OR...
(B) Told Lewis - too bad, shouldn't have slowed down - and allowed the Toyota to finish 3rd and the McLaren 4th.
Either way, no drivers should have been given penalties and the matter would have ended on the track for the audience to see; not in a conference room.
Tee_Tz.
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What you and I are saying is essentially the same thing, except you are defending Trulli and I'm defending Hamilton, but the results yield the same conclusion.
We now know Hamilton did slow to let Trulli pass - wrongly assuming he wasn't allowed to overtake - and Trulli seeing a very slow McLaren ahead pulled to the side, understandably overtook and held the position assuming the car had a problem.
However! The problem was during the final lap, the race steward should of either:
(A) Instructed the Toyota to give back P3 to the McLaren as the McLaren had incorrectly relinquished position (as Trulli/Toyota must have noticed Lewis began running fine right behind the Toyota and I'm sure they were inquirying with the race stewarts anyway).
OR...
(B) Told Lewis - too bad, shouldn't have slowed down - and allowed the Toyota to finish 3rd and the McLaren 4th.
Either way, no drivers should have been given penalties and the matter would have ended on the track for the audience to see; not in a conference room.
Tee_Tz.
We now know Hamilton did slow to let Trulli pass - wrongly assuming he wasn't allowed to overtake - and Trulli seeing a very slow McLaren ahead pulled to the side, understandably overtook and held the position assuming the car had a problem.
However! The problem was during the final lap, the race steward should of either:
(A) Instructed the Toyota to give back P3 to the McLaren as the McLaren had incorrectly relinquished position (as Trulli/Toyota must have noticed Lewis began running fine right behind the Toyota and I'm sure they were inquirying with the race stewarts anyway).
OR...
(B) Told Lewis - too bad, shouldn't have slowed down - and allowed the Toyota to finish 3rd and the McLaren 4th.
Either way, no drivers should have been given penalties and the matter would have ended on the track for the audience to see; not in a conference room.
Tee_Tz.
The point that you miss regarding both penalties is that the Stewards penalized Trulli very harsh (ten spots instead of one) because they believed at the time that he lied to them about thinking that Hamilton had a problem essentially trying to mislead them. They just didn't have a solid proof to find out if he was lying or not so they gave him 10 spot penalty to set an example.
Similarly Hamilton's penalty is harsh because, they were able to prove beyond any doubt that he was lying. As they announced:
"Lewis Hamilton and McLaren could face further sanctions from Formula One's governing body after being found to have deliberately misled stewards at the opening race in Australia.
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/020420...sanctions.html
Also, quite frankly, I don't see any hate in this incident, if FIA didn't like or was unfair to Hamilton they wouldn't have ruled to his favor to begin with.
Last edited by kchristos; Apr 2, 2009 at 02:01 PM.
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The point that you miss regarding both penalties is that the Stewards penalized Trulli very harsh (ten spots instead of one) because they believed at the time that he didn't do it under confusion but instead to exploit the rules and gain the position back illegally. Similarly Hamilton's penalty is harsh because, as they announced:
"Lewis Hamilton and McLaren could face further sanctions from Formula One's governing body after being found to have deliberately misled stewards at the opening race in Australia.
"Lewis Hamilton and McLaren could face further sanctions from Formula One's governing body after being found to have deliberately misled stewards at the opening race in Australia.
So my whole beef was, this episode was unnecessary if they just told the drivers what to do on the track.
It's like a soccer game where the ref says there is a penalty; the team takes it and wins 1-0. Then days later the ref determines it wasn't a penalty and changes the result to 0-0.
Tee_Tz.
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What a waste of time watching F1. If the stewards did their job in real time, we wouldn't be here. Very good arguments on both sides. Well, it's back to ALMS for me.
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I think the problem here is that lewis and McLaren lied to the Stewards... and quite bluntly. If I dramatize the conversation, it must have been something like this:
Stewards: Jarno, tell us why you overtook Lewis under safety car.
JT: He slow down, he move aside, I pass. What I can do?
Stewards: Lewis, did you slow down and let jarno pass?
LH: Did not!
Stewards: Dave (McLaren's sporting director), did the team instruct Lewis to let Jarno pass?
DR (in his best impersonation of Ron Dennis): Indeed we did not issue a radio wave intercommunication with the driver and reigning world champion Lewis Hamilton #1 for the Vodafone McLaren Mercedes F1 Team stating that driver and reigning world champion Lewis Hamilton #1 for the Vodafone McLaren Mercedes F1 Team should diminish his rate of speed with the ultimate intention of allowing a competing vehicle to gain track advantage.
Stewards: Huh?
DR: No we didn't.
Stewards: Jarno you lying Ba$tard, here's your 25 seconds.
Stewards: Jarno, tell us why you overtook Lewis under safety car.
JT: He slow down, he move aside, I pass. What I can do?
Stewards: Lewis, did you slow down and let jarno pass?
LH: Did not!
Stewards: Dave (McLaren's sporting director), did the team instruct Lewis to let Jarno pass?
DR (in his best impersonation of Ron Dennis): Indeed we did not issue a radio wave intercommunication with the driver and reigning world champion Lewis Hamilton #1 for the Vodafone McLaren Mercedes F1 Team stating that driver and reigning world champion Lewis Hamilton #1 for the Vodafone McLaren Mercedes F1 Team should diminish his rate of speed with the ultimate intention of allowing a competing vehicle to gain track advantage.
Stewards: Huh?
DR: No we didn't.
Stewards: Jarno you lying Ba$tard, here's your 25 seconds.
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And for the Gloden Boy apologists who are trying to lay this on the FIA, here it is from Whitmarsh himself:
So this was not an oversight, or forgetting to mention something. They deliberately decided not to talk about the transmission. Shame on them. BTW, Ryan has been shown the door, and Lewis will give a press conference later today, no doubt after being spanked 10 times with Ron Dennis's cricket paddle.
"It has become clear from discussions with Dave last night and through into this morning that during the stewards meeting after the Australian Grand Prix, he was not entirely full and truthful in the answers he gave the stewards," said Whitmarsh.
When asked if he felt Hamilton had also been truthful in the meeting, Whitmarsh said: "No. I think that Lewis was not entirely truthful"
Whitmarsh explained that Ryan and Hamilton's decision not to tell the stewards about the radio conversation between team and driver was taken unilaterally, without consultation with senior management.
When asked if he felt Hamilton had also been truthful in the meeting, Whitmarsh said: "No. I think that Lewis was not entirely truthful"
Whitmarsh explained that Ryan and Hamilton's decision not to tell the stewards about the radio conversation between team and driver was taken unilaterally, without consultation with senior management.
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I mean why else are they there? Are they watching the telecast like fans? Shouldn't they have had an answer for both McLaren & Toyota within seconds, let alone a whole lap?!?
McLaren has responded in the only way they really could, Toyota have gotten their place back and Lewis' reputation has been slightly affected. Best way to respond: win, win, win. I'm not a Ferrari fan, and didn't particularly like Schumi, but say all you want about him -- with 7 World Titles he can't even hear you at 30,000 feet.
Tee_Tz.
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+1.
I mean why else are they there? Are they watching the telecast like fans? Shouldn't they have had an answer for both McLaren & Toyota within seconds, let alone a whole lap?!?
McLaren has responded in the only way they really could, Toyota have gotten their place back and Lewis' reputation has been slightly affected. Best way to respond: win, win, win. I'm not a Ferrari fan, and didn't particularly like Schumi, but say all you want about him -- with 7 World Titles he can't even hear you at 30,000 feet.
Tee_Tz.
I mean why else are they there? Are they watching the telecast like fans? Shouldn't they have had an answer for both McLaren & Toyota within seconds, let alone a whole lap?!?
McLaren has responded in the only way they really could, Toyota have gotten their place back and Lewis' reputation has been slightly affected. Best way to respond: win, win, win. I'm not a Ferrari fan, and didn't particularly like Schumi, but say all you want about him -- with 7 World Titles he can't even hear you at 30,000 feet.
Tee_Tz.
http://eurosport.yahoo.com/03042009/...-told-lie.html
Lewis already admitted that he was told to lie and so he did. That to me suggests that his punishment and ultimately McLaren's punishment is just.
I would feel sorry for Lewis to be honest with you if this was his first year. As a rookie driver, it is hard to go against what your team is telling you to do, they could give him and kick in the butt and send him home good buy. But now he has already established his reputation his position is solid and should have a lot of say power within his team, knowing that the FIA has access to all communications it was a stupid to lie. Sooner or later they would have listened to the tapes and found out about it not to mention that it is morally wrong.
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Hamilton says Dave Ryan told him to lie
http://eurosport.yahoo.com/03042009/...-told-lie.html
Lewis already admitted that he was told to lie and so he did. That to me suggests that his punishment and ultimately McLaren's punishment is just.
I would feel sorry for Lewis to be honest with you if this was his first year. As a rookie driver, it is hard to go against what your team is telling you to do, they could give him and kick in the butt and send him home good buy. But now he has already established his reputation his position is solid and should have a lot of say power within his team, knowing that the FIA has access to all communications it was a stupid to lie. Sooner or later they would have listened to the tapes and found out about it not to mention that it is morally wrong.
http://eurosport.yahoo.com/03042009/...-told-lie.html
Lewis already admitted that he was told to lie and so he did. That to me suggests that his punishment and ultimately McLaren's punishment is just.
I would feel sorry for Lewis to be honest with you if this was his first year. As a rookie driver, it is hard to go against what your team is telling you to do, they could give him and kick in the butt and send him home good buy. But now he has already established his reputation his position is solid and should have a lot of say power within his team, knowing that the FIA has access to all communications it was a stupid to lie. Sooner or later they would have listened to the tapes and found out about it not to mention that it is morally wrong.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...refer=amsports
Also, the FIA released a statement claiming Lewis may not face any further punishments. The fact that they allowed him to use the press media suggests that they want to bury this and let the racing continue, which I think is the right thing to do.
Tee_Tz.
