Tranmission fluid question?
06-03-2005, 07:12 PM
#3
MBWorld Fanatic!
Lots of opinions on this. What does the owner's manual say for your model/year? Mine says don't change it at all. Modern lubes definitely last longer and protect better so I tend to believe the manufacturer. If you abuse your car then I would shorten their recommendations on maintenance intervals.
06-03-2005, 07:19 PM
#4
MBWorld Fanatic!
Originally Posted by mleskovar
Lots of opinions on this. What does the owner's manual say for your model/year? Mine says don't change it at all. Modern lubes definitely last longer and protect better so I tend to believe the manufacturer.
06-03-2005, 07:44 PM
#5
MBWorld Fanatic!
See what I mean 
Who are you going to believe? An engineer who designed it or someone who has no valid credentials other than being an owner? The only argument I ever hear from the 'change it early and often' crowd is "it can't hurt". Nothing but a wast of time, money, and resources. It's your choice. One fact you can bank on is the more unecessary maintenance done on a vehicle the more failures you will see...ask any manufacturer.
Who are you going to believe? An engineer who designed it or someone who has no valid credentials other than being an owner? The only argument I ever hear from the 'change it early and often' crowd is "it can't hurt". Nothing but a wast of time, money, and resources. It's your choice. One fact you can bank on is the more unecessary maintenance done on a vehicle the more failures you will see...ask any manufacturer.
06-03-2005, 07:57 PM
#6
MBWorld Fanatic!
Originally Posted by mleskovar
See what I mean Who are you going to believe? An engineer who designed it or someone who has no valid credentials other than being an owner? The only argument I ever hear from the 'change it early and often' crowd is "it can't hurt". Nothing but a wast of time, money, and resources. It's your choice. One fact you can bank on is the more unecessary maintenance done on a vehicle the more failures you will see...ask any manufacturer.
Who are you going to believe? An engineer who designed it or someone who has no valid credentials other than being an owner? The only argument I ever hear from the 'change it early and often' crowd is "it can't hurt". Nothing but a wast of time, money, and resources. It's your choice. One fact you can bank on is the more unecessary maintenance done on a vehicle the more failures you will see...ask any manufacturer.
06-03-2005, 08:03 PM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: By the City by the Bay, CA
Posts: 462
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2001 E320 (210.065), Brilliant Silver; 2002 Ducati ST-2, Arrest-me Red
Yes and no
It's true that modern lubes last longer.
It's also true that the parts in mechanical contrivances -- even those bathed in modern lubes -- are still moving parts, and moving parts still shear small metal particles. And the clutch plates in automatic transmissions shed material as well.
It's further true that transmission filters and screens get clogged up by such particles.
And it's still true that moisture can condense into an automatic transmission and degrade the performance and protection of any lube, modern or otherwise.
In conclusion...
The great thing about automotive ownership is that each can do as he or she decides. Some folks take meticulous care of their cars and still have failures while others drive them into the ground with hardly a whimper. Still others see failures that are simply due to defects, even on cars of high repute -- heck there's a guy on here with a new CLK that the tranny blew below 3K miles!
For me and my 2001 E320, someplace around 75K we will have a transmission flush and fill with a new filter/screen. Some might call that wasteful and others might call it a wise choice. I call it "preventative maintenance" and that mileage marker seems to be a reasonable consensus around the MBZ forums. And it makes sense to me, too. As a former mechanic, I've seen a lot and done a lot, and I wouldn't care if the transmission had a lifetime warranty with no regularly-scheduled maintenance, I would still change the fluid and filter periodically.
Take care, folks, and enjoy the ride,
Greg
It's also true that the parts in mechanical contrivances -- even those bathed in modern lubes -- are still moving parts, and moving parts still shear small metal particles. And the clutch plates in automatic transmissions shed material as well.
It's further true that transmission filters and screens get clogged up by such particles.
And it's still true that moisture can condense into an automatic transmission and degrade the performance and protection of any lube, modern or otherwise.
In conclusion...
The great thing about automotive ownership is that each can do as he or she decides. Some folks take meticulous care of their cars and still have failures while others drive them into the ground with hardly a whimper. Still others see failures that are simply due to defects, even on cars of high repute -- heck there's a guy on here with a new CLK that the tranny blew below 3K miles!
For me and my 2001 E320, someplace around 75K we will have a transmission flush and fill with a new filter/screen. Some might call that wasteful and others might call it a wise choice. I call it "preventative maintenance" and that mileage marker seems to be a reasonable consensus around the MBZ forums. And it makes sense to me, too. As a former mechanic, I've seen a lot and done a lot, and I wouldn't care if the transmission had a lifetime warranty with no regularly-scheduled maintenance, I would still change the fluid and filter periodically.
Take care, folks, and enjoy the ride,
Greg
Trending Topics
06-03-2005, 09:21 PM
#9
MBWorld Fanatic!
Like I said..."It's your choice". Change it every week if it will make you feel better. But to advise someone to change transmission fluid every 30K without knowing their driving habits or conditions is fodder for flames.
06-04-2005, 07:03 PM
#10
Super Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Motor City
Posts: 696
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
3 Posts
95 E320 Cabriolet, 108K
Ditto to Greg's advice.
There is no such thing as lifetime fluid fill. This type of verbage is used by the manufacturer to convince people what a good buy their vehicle is, purporting that little money needs to be spent on maintaining the car.
If you can convince an owner that he/she doesn't have to go back to the dealer every 30K for extended service, then you may have clinched a sale.
There is no such thing as lifetime fluid fill. This type of verbage is used by the manufacturer to convince people what a good buy their vehicle is, purporting that little money needs to be spent on maintaining the car.
If you can convince an owner that he/she doesn't have to go back to the dealer every 30K for extended service, then you may have clinched a sale.
06-07-2005, 01:28 AM
#11
Originally Posted by Kestas
Ditto to Greg's advice.
There is no such thing as lifetime fluid fill. This type of verbage is used by the manufacturer to convince people what a good buy their vehicle is, purporting that little money needs to be spent on maintaining the car.
If you can convince an owner that he/she doesn't have to go back to the dealer every 30K for extended service, then you may have clinched a sale.
There is no such thing as lifetime fluid fill. This type of verbage is used by the manufacturer to convince people what a good buy their vehicle is, purporting that little money needs to be spent on maintaining the car.
If you can convince an owner that he/she doesn't have to go back to the dealer every 30K for extended service, then you may have clinched a sale.
Manual tranys never change oil,diff never change oil.
If auto trany is not abused will last at least 100k if not 200k.If the fluid is black at 45k changing it will not help the clutches...
Sometimes changing the fluid makes it worse.
06-07-2005, 01:29 AM
#12
Originally Posted by mleskovar
Like I said..."It's your choice". Change it every week if it will make you feel better. But to advise someone to change transmission fluid every 30K without knowing their driving habits or conditions is fodder for flames.
06-07-2005, 08:48 AM
#14
MBWorld Fanatic!
Originally Posted by mleskovar
Like I said..."It's your choice". Change it every week if it will make you feel better. But to advise someone to change transmission fluid every 30K without knowing their driving habits or conditions is fodder for flames.
Last edited by AMGC43; 06-07-2005 at 08:54 AM.
06-07-2005, 09:40 AM
#15
MBWorld Fanatic!
As stated previously, it all depends on driving habits. If you do mostly city driving then changing it 30-50K makes sense. A lot more wear on teh transmission. If all you do if highway, then every 100K makes sense. I just had my fluid replaced in my E300 after 43,000 from previous change, about 50% city and 50% highway and the fluid wasn't apparently too bad, but it was clean either. I had the fluid replaced as my transmission has developed a strange noise that is intermittent, but that is nor here nor there. If you care for the vehicle and wish to use it for many miles to come, analyizing your habits and checking the fluid should become a habor like changing you engine oil. The fluid will get darker from the graphite in the clutch packs as wear increases. Top ensure smoother shifting and maintainence free operation, keeping the fluid fresh and clean is the best option period. A transmission is far more complex a structure than an engine, it needs to be treated as such....
06-07-2005, 09:48 AM
#16
MBWorld Fanatic!
Originally Posted by michakaveli
As stated previously, it all depends on driving habits. If you do mostly city driving then changing it 30-50K makes sense. A lot more wear on teh transmission. If all you do if highway, then every 100K makes sense. I just had my fluid replaced in my E300 after 43,000 from previous change, about 50% city and 50% highway and the fluid wasn't apparently too bad, but it was clean either. I had the fluid replaced as my transmission has developed a strange noise that is intermittent, but that is nor here nor there. If you care for the vehicle and wish to use it for many miles to come, analyizing your habits and checking the fluid should become a habor like changing you engine oil. The fluid will get darker from the graphite in the clutch packs as wear increases. Top ensure smoother shifting and maintainence free operation, keeping the fluid fresh and clean is the best option period. A transmission is far more complex a structure than an engine, it needs to be treated as such....
06-07-2005, 09:58 AM
#17
Super Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Motor City
Posts: 696
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
3 Posts
95 E320 Cabriolet, 108K
Originally Posted by TheV12pwr
The funniest thing ever...
Manual tranys never change oil,diff never change oil.
If auto trany is not abused will last at least 100k if not 200k.If the fluid is black at 45k changing it will not help the clutches...
Sometimes changing the fluid makes it worse.
Manual tranys never change oil,diff never change oil.
If auto trany is not abused will last at least 100k if not 200k.If the fluid is black at 45k changing it will not help the clutches...
Sometimes changing the fluid makes it worse.
I strongly suspect these people don't report the whole story... where their transmission was neglected, started giving problems, then changed the fluid hoping the problem will go away... only to have the transmission finally fail afterward. Then they irresponsibly report that it was the result of fluid change, and not from lack of maintenance. It's kinda like listening to people who won't wear their safety belt because they hear of people being thrown clear from a vehicle during a rollover accident. (It happens 10% of the time... the other 90% get killed). Changing fluid on a timely basis is the key to transmission longevity.
Your other advice is shaky as well.
06-07-2005, 11:55 AM
#18
MBWorld Fanatic!
Anyone added an additional transmission radiator?
I am curious to the temperature of the fluid while it is circulating through the bottom of the radiator, getting probably heated by the coolant instead of cooled?
In another thread I have read on another website a good temperature to aim for to ensure long life of the transmission of about 150 degrees farenheit.
Anyother input on this additional external radiator. Obviously the input to this radiator would come form the output of the engine/trans radiator and the output would be straight back to the tranny.
I am curious to the temperature of the fluid while it is circulating through the bottom of the radiator, getting probably heated by the coolant instead of cooled?
In another thread I have read on another website a good temperature to aim for to ensure long life of the transmission of about 150 degrees farenheit.
Anyother input on this additional external radiator. Obviously the input to this radiator would come form the output of the engine/trans radiator and the output would be straight back to the tranny.
06-07-2005, 01:13 PM
#19
Super Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Motor City
Posts: 696
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
3 Posts
95 E320 Cabriolet, 108K
This was posted on the BOBISTHEOILGUY site:
Temp...Life
175....100K
195.....50K
220.....25K (common operating temp for most vehicles)
240.....10K
260......5K
300......1K
An external cooler does help if you're driving in very hot conditions or towing.
Temp...Life
175....100K
195.....50K
220.....25K (common operating temp for most vehicles)
240.....10K
260......5K
300......1K
An external cooler does help if you're driving in very hot conditions or towing.
06-07-2005, 10:38 PM
#21
Originally Posted by Kestas
Just because a few people report transmission failure after changing the fluid is no reason to shy away from transmission fluid maintenance.
I strongly suspect these people don't report the whole story... where their transmission was neglected, started giving problems, then changed the fluid hoping the problem will go away... only to have the transmission finally fail afterward. Then they irresponsibly report that it was the result of fluid change, and not from lack of maintenance. It's kinda like listening to people who won't wear their safety belt because they hear of people being thrown clear from a vehicle during a rollover accident. (It happens 10% of the time... the other 90% get killed). Changing fluid on a timely basis is the key to transmission longevity.
Your other advice is shaky as well.
I strongly suspect these people don't report the whole story... where their transmission was neglected, started giving problems, then changed the fluid hoping the problem will go away... only to have the transmission finally fail afterward. Then they irresponsibly report that it was the result of fluid change, and not from lack of maintenance. It's kinda like listening to people who won't wear their safety belt because they hear of people being thrown clear from a vehicle during a rollover accident. (It happens 10% of the time... the other 90% get killed). Changing fluid on a timely basis is the key to transmission longevity.
Your other advice is shaky as well.
If trany is about to fail the change of trany fluid will not help.
If there is no problem with the trany/not abused,sliping/ there is no reason to change the fluid,in other words 'no maintance needed'...changing the fluid every week will not extend the 'life' of it!
Get it?
And further more to another coment/reply... the graphite from the clutches is filtered by the filter,that's what the filter is for.Designed to handle all the way ...till no clutch left
Last edited by TheV12pwr; 06-07-2005 at 10:55 PM.
06-15-2005, 05:33 PM
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Belgium
Posts: 392
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Same questions again and again and again...
There has never been any posting on this topic from someone who REALLY knows how those transmissions work. Maybe they are not that stupid to spend all their time on a forum?
I have only read postings from people who pretend to know all about them (other threads, same topic), but talking about parts who are not even in it!
(E.g. brake bands and so on...)
I also read about slipping...but from the moment on that those transmissions tend to slip, they go into limp mode. In limp mode shifting hydraulic pressure is maximum to protect clutch packs. The only slipping than can occur is "controlled" slipping, without excessive wear.
Or are there people here who have got totally worn clutch packs without any other parts broken? I seriously doubt it!
I do not know in the US, but in Europe maintenance prescriptions have changed. Only certain models, not all, should have oil and filter change only the first 60 000 kms, then never again (in case of certain repairs not included, only if everything goes well).
I think I know more about these transmissions than average and I think this system (only first 60000 kms) is good and I also can understand why.
So...just follow maintenance prescriptions (if they have already changed in the US too, dealers should have new service sheets).
But stories about independant mechanics "going back on factory training in Stuttgart..."????
And he may have 30 years of experience, those transmissions are not that old and many things have changed since then.
But...I have two problems:
1. I am not English-speaking, so when it becomes highly technical, I cannot express myself in English.
2. I am getting sick of this forum and will stay away for a while (again).
There has never been any posting on this topic from someone who REALLY knows how those transmissions work. Maybe they are not that stupid to spend all their time on a forum?
I have only read postings from people who pretend to know all about them (other threads, same topic), but talking about parts who are not even in it!
(E.g. brake bands and so on...)
I also read about slipping...but from the moment on that those transmissions tend to slip, they go into limp mode. In limp mode shifting hydraulic pressure is maximum to protect clutch packs. The only slipping than can occur is "controlled" slipping, without excessive wear.
Or are there people here who have got totally worn clutch packs without any other parts broken? I seriously doubt it!
I do not know in the US, but in Europe maintenance prescriptions have changed. Only certain models, not all, should have oil and filter change only the first 60 000 kms, then never again (in case of certain repairs not included, only if everything goes well).
I think I know more about these transmissions than average and I think this system (only first 60000 kms) is good and I also can understand why.
So...just follow maintenance prescriptions (if they have already changed in the US too, dealers should have new service sheets).
But stories about independant mechanics "going back on factory training in Stuttgart..."????
And he may have 30 years of experience, those transmissions are not that old and many things have changed since then.
But...I have two problems:
1. I am not English-speaking, so when it becomes highly technical, I cannot express myself in English.
2. I am getting sick of this forum and will stay away for a while (again).
06-15-2005, 09:19 PM
#24
MBWorld Fanatic!
Originally Posted by patrick
1. I am not English-speaking, so when it becomes highly technical, I cannot express myself in English.
2. I am getting sick of this forum and will stay away for a while (again).
2. I am getting sick of this forum and will stay away for a while (again).
06-17-2005, 06:43 PM
#25
The fluid in a 722.6 tranny does not need to be changed at any regular intervals. I would change maybe every 100k miles. The tech that said he saw fluid that was black as coffee and is pissed that MB says do not change is right in some sense. Drain your engine oil at 3k, is it dark? Probably, doesn't mean it needs changing though. The 722.6 tranny has been very reliable on vehicles over 100k miles without fluid changes. IMHO as a MB tech, it is a complete waste of money to change your trans fluid as a maintainence item before 100k.
