adf111

Got my 01' 75K miles E320 Star Diag and among other failures got those in the subject.

The independent shop said I should replace 12 spark plugs, $21/each and 6 coils, $127/each (why 6? Where are they?), and all with labor comes to $1900.

Does that sound reasonable? Anyone has recommendations?

Will appreciate any advice.

Thanks

SUNILP

That's a bit steep but you have 2 spark plugs per cylinder. Total of 6 cylinders. Then you have 6 coils which each have 2 outputs for the plugs. I really doubt you need to replace all 6 coils. Worse case scenerio, probably 1 or 2 packs at the most.

mleskovar

And people wonder why dealership service is bad mouthed. Same parts (all Bosch) online cost $800 (recommended plug is $9!!!). Like Sunman, it's hard to believe all 6 coil packs are bad and it is obvious they are shotgunning it. Usually the coil packs come off with a plug replacement anyway so the labor should be no more than what it takes to replace the plugs. Go to an independent and save some money.

adf111

Here's the problem it IS an independent....

Meanwhile I also found out that P0300 means Random Misfire and P2044 means Misfiring of cylinder 1.

Any idea how do I go from here?

Thanks

MarcusF

I agree w/sunman & mleskovar - it's highly doubtful that all six coils died. If all six did die, the question that should be answered BEFORE the new coils are installed is, "What killed the coils?" That should be determined beforehand because if the ECU is bad (doubtful), or the wiring harness is fried (doubtful), or any other external device killed the coils, it will kill the new coils just like it killed the old ones.



Having just given you two unlikely events, here’s what I would do. Change the plugs, clear the codes, and see if the dead coil code reappears. I say that because occasionally a fouled plug won’t fire. When that happens, the coil knows that it didn’t pass a ka-jillion volts down to a plug. Being the talkative type, the coil conveys that information to the ECU. The ECU then logs it as either a dead coil or a misfire. That doesn’t mean the coil is dead, it means the coil knows it's not passing zillions of volts to the plug. A coil can be checked. It usually takes about 30 seconds with an ohm meter. Bosch supplies resistance specs for this very reason.

Lastly, if the independent recomended SIX NEW COILS, you may wish to seek a second opinion. If all the coils are dead the car won't run.

adf111

MarcusF, thanks for your so educated reply. What you guys are saying really makes sense.

I read on other threads of some who had similar problems but either replaced or CLEANED the MAS (don't know what is that!) and then all the misfiring stoped.

Is there a way for me, the simple machanically un-educated non-pro, to reset the codes, or is it something only for a Star Diag shop?

Because then I could replace the plugs on cylinder 1 myself (or could I not?).

Thanks

StapleGun

You could purchase an OBDII (On board diagnostic II scanner) they even have 'em at Sears. This will read codes AND clear them. On my MB (1998 C43) the OBDII access point is below the steering wheel mounted on the console with a plastic door covering the plug.

mleskovar

Don't replace just one plug.....replace them all. I bought my OBDII tool from Kragen for $35. Just make sure if you get one that it can clear as well as read the codes. Sometimes just clearing a code works as the gremlin that caused it goes away. Changing plugs is harder than it sounds so be prepaired for some frustration. Be careful removing the plug wires...don't just yank on the wire untill they come out... or you'll break the wire internally and end up with more problems. Did the codes pop up because the car is running poorly or just because they happened to check them?

adf111

mleskovar, the scan was done due to idle vibration (that disappears once you accelerate), and in idle driving - like on red lights.

The probelm is - like going to the doctor - the printout came with so many failures that I regret getting this car in the 1st place.....

I've known cars, European, Jap and domestic. Yet this printout looks to me like something written in Kambodian(!?!) and nothing makes sense.

Yet he car drives great (GREAT!!!), all system seem to work in order, only this annoying vibration at idle and ther ESP/BAS/ABS lamp that comes on once a week upon just touching the brakes pedal.

Paying though $2K for a misfire seems to me outragous.

I'll wait a bit longer for more comments on the post and if nithing else, then I'll try the Kargen/Sears readers and start with 2 plugs (Cylinder 1) replacement.

Any idea what si the MAS and where is it located?

Thanks,
A.D.

ScottCLS55

2k is ridiculous.

300 code means misfire random on all cylinders. spark plugs and coils probably will not fix it. Usually one will go bad and it will read code 304 for cylinder #4 misfire. Something else is causing a misfire. I cant find any 2044 or 2043 codes in my service manual.. Even if they are there they probably are not engine codes(also not related to your missing problem, more like a/c codes or abs codes etc.

Maybe they where 204 and 203 codes? if so that would mean that 2 fuel injectors are bad or clogged.

This guy is trying to rip you off, and when he is done it will still misfire. Take it to another mechanic.. Any obd II scanner or code reader will clear the codes from your system. The guy that scanned the car should have cleared them to see if they come back. Did he clear it and did the check engine light come back on immediatly?? If so what codes came back on? These will be good questions to ask him?

adf111

Williws an others,

Here are the full scan results (thanks to Brother multi-function printer that has an automatic OCR....):

I’m having idle vibration on my 01’ 75K miles E320 and decided to computer scan the car at an independent place in Gardena, CA. The results look to me devastating. Maybe the members can decipher the codes and provide an advice on how to treat it. Below I specify only the failed (“-f-“) tests, exactly as they appear on the printout:

Code---------Text-------------------------------------------Status
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
ME2-SFI – Motor Electronics 2.8
P2043 Misfiring (See currently valid STIP) (P0300) STORED
P2044 Misfiring of cylinder 1 (See currently valid STIP) (P0301) STORED

*For this the mechanic suggests replacing all 12 spark plugs, $21/each and 6 coils(?), $127/each, totaling $1,900……

ESP – Electronic stability program
C1200 S9/1 (Stop lamp switch) Plausibility STORED
C1024 Fault in CAN communication with control unit N15/3 (ETC control module) STORED
C1504-009 The system is switched off. Steering angle sensor is not initialized STORED

EIS – Electronic ignition switch ELCODE
B1858 Is actual value S40 (CC switch) plausible? STORED
B1056 Fault in CAN communication with control unit DCM-RL STORED

PSE – Pneumatic system equipment
B1712 The alarm has been activated through component S17/3 STORED
B1709 Component H3/1 is not coded or FAULTY STORED

SAM - Signal acquisition and actuation module
B1217-000 Fault in communication with component B38 (Rain sensor) STORED
B1217-003 Component B38 (Rain sensor) has excess temperature STORED

* It seems my rain sensor works perfectly, at least during the very few rainy days this fall

ICM – Instrument cluster with maintenance interval display
B1108 Fault in CAN communication with control unit N73 (EIS control module) STORED
B1111 Fault in CAN communication with control unit A35/8 (Tele Aid control module) STORED

AUDIO
N1141 Set-actual configuration of D2B ring differs Current and stored
N1112 No data transfer between D2B master and D2B predecessor component possible STORED
N1140 CAN bus-fault

E-call [USA] – Telematic system
N1004 GPS positioning is not assured STORED
N1100 No signal is received from the right-side speed sensors STORED
N1101 No signal is received from the left-side speed sensors STORED

AAC – Automatic air conditioning
B1234 B32 (Sun sensor) STORED
B1416 A31m1 (Coolant circulation pump) STORED

ScottCLS55

that is the number I wanted to see the (p301) code. It could be low compression(probably not) or spark plugs(maybe) or Coilpack on cylinder 1(most likely) and wires(very possible)

Number one will be easy to work on. Do it yourself. Buy 2 wires for cylinder one and 2 spark plugs and a coil pack also. This will eliminate the chance of a misfire caused by spark. Next would be fuel, then low compression(burnt valve is possible, if it stops missing at higher rpm) If you have a burnt valve then its going to get very expensive.. So try the ignition on cylinder 1 first..

I don't know about the other problems, I have no experience with them, maybe pm one of the mbtechs on the board.

Good luck
Scott

mleskovar

First invest in a scanner. You can use it on any car built after 1995 and it will come in handy. Just make sure it can clear codes....not all of them do. You read the codes, clear them, then see if they return after you start the car the next time. The ESP fault code could be from not initializing after after a battery replacement. Remember, any hiccup can throw a code but that doesn't necessarily mean a part is bad enough to replace. Follow williws advice and do it one piece at a time and use the scanner to check if that fixed it. I would still replace all the plugs....they should wear equally...and just by pulling them out and inspecting them you can tell if a cylinder has a problem (like if it's oiled fouled). Let us know how it goes.

516mbtek

we can all see who got burned by the dealer here....i thought he was talking about an indy????

mleskovar

Yup, I missed that, my bad.

adf111

Thank you all for the detailed analysis and instructions. Decided not to do it myself (didn't have the guts...) and went to Enrique from MR. MB in Tarzana, CA, who was highly recommended on this forum. He had all faults reset and then replaced the coil & spark plugs on cylinder 1 (Parts, Labor & tax $213).

Unfortunately, the idle vibration continues but when scanning now we got "No Faults Found", or other words, no misfire.

Enrique recommended to drive for a day or 2 and return so that maybe it'll register. Enrique also said that if the spark plugs misfire (faulty/burnt plugs) it won't register on the computer; true or false?

I'll keep updating, but meanwhile any suggestions?

Thx,
A.D.

ScottCLS55

If the electric spark stops or is not conducting correctly then it WILL show a code. When it misses and does not show a code its not good, that means something mechanical is probably wrong.. Again could be low compression(due to broken or worn compression ring)or a burnt valve(which also shows low compression.

First thing, get them to check compression, that will lead you to the right direction.
It only takes about 5 minutes, take one spark plug out, screw in tester, and kill ignition and fuel by removing cps plug and crank the car. Basic way to do it but MB may have more safety measures to do this not sure myself.

If compression is good, at least 180 psi, the next solution I would look at would be a cam sensor i.e. timing problem.(but then again that should throw a code) If thats ok then maybe fuel injector(which should also throw a code if plugged or faulty).

I hate to say it but I think you have a mechanical problem, it sounds like low compression due to bent or burnt valve. If it smooths out at 1500 rpm it most likely is the valve. What happens is only a small leak is in the valve so when the engine moves slowly @1000 rpm, the compression stroke takes longer and the pressure has time to leak out. When you rev the engine to 1500rpm or above,the compression does not have time to leak out because it is such a small leak, so the cylinder fires at 80% or so. I have seen it in 100's of cars but never a mercedes. So who knows. Remember to make a cylinder fire you only need spark(at the right time or timing) compression, and fuel. So its easy to narrow it down with the compression test.

Good luck,
Scott

mleskovar

Don't rule out motor mounts. They are very fancy/expensive and can cause vibrations and noises at different rpms when they go. If the code comes back on cy 1 all that's left in the primary ignition circuit is the HT wires. The compression test is not expensive and if nothing else it will give you peace of mind (or anguish!)....do all the cylinders.

516mbtek

You have to understand this...to the cars electronic (M.E.) control unit, a misfire is a measurement of flywheel speed/position. A bad plug, coil, wire, low compression, bad valve, or vacuum leak at lets say cyl #4...will all cause a po304....then the M.E. will disable the fuel injection to that particular cylinder to protect cat damage....and it will set a po code no matter what is the cause. If your engine just feels like its running rough but is NOT misfiring..then I suggest that you replace both motor mounts and trans mount.

cklanke

Newbie's 2 cents worth here, but why has no one talked about the MAS yet? If you've got a "crudded up" (for lack of better descriptive) mass airflow sensor woulnd't you expect a rough idle? My last car (Audi) had a carbon build up that got to the point where it wouldn't idle at all. In my instance it was an "idle control valve" (part of the airflow detection system?) that was gummed up. Removal and spray cleaning with a 1.99 can of carb cleaner cured my idle ills. Any pros out there that can do a better job of describing airflow and it's ills in the E320?

benz-tech

OMG, $1,900?! you don't have a burnt valve, or bad injector, you really don't even need to replace the spark plugs until 100k. buy 2 plug wires for the affected cylinder #1 if i remember right. and you're done. i see it every day, i dont even think about it anymore when i see missfire codes. PLUG WIRES! and they're cheep, relatively.

mleskovar

$30.16 each on line and you're right that's cheap and easy check. That's over $360 for a complete set though! Is there anything special about the HT wires? Resistance? Carbon core? I'm getting ready to change my plugs and it seems the HT wires get brittle with the heat (like everything else plastic or rubber under the hood) and I'm expecting at least one to go unless I'm lucky or real careful. I plan on disconnecting the boots from the plugs then removing the coil packs with the HT wires still connected. Any suggestions or knowledge about the HT wire properties?

benz-tech

they measure 2k ohms whether they are good or bad, so they do have a resistor in them. try just the affected cylinder first. dont risk me being wrong whithout having looked at the car. 60 bucks and you're done. buy the rest later if it fixes it. as far as removal, be happy that it's cyl #1. use a 17mm wrench to slide down over the alum sleeve and wiggle and lightly pry out while being careful not to break the plug, then twist the rubber end off the coil. pay attn to "A" and "B" on the coils. "A" is always to the front of the car, "B" is always the rear plug for each cyl.

csumt76

Thats what I would do.. you can change the plugs if you felt like it but 9 out of 10 the wires clean up the ignition on the given cylinder.

For the ESP/BAS get a stop lamp switch. You can change that under the dash on the driver side with a phillips screwdriver.

The only other code I see actually indicating a problem is the audio system. Is everything working? Perhaps something was just removed from the car or it is not coded correctly. If it is still working, there shouldnt be anything to worry about though.

adf111

It has been about a month since my last posting. So here's what I've done so far:

Replaced plugs & coil on Cyl 1 - Probelm persists; no error codes
A week later replaced all the rest 10 plugs - Problem still persists and no errors

The mechanic pures in a bottle of Chevron's injectors cleaner (goes into the gas tank) and asks me to drive the car till tank is empty, fill it again to a 1/2 and add another bottle, which I did. The idle/slow drive vibration is still there w/o errors.

Yesterday I pressed the pedal slightly, accelerating to pass another car on the road (those w/ the 320 engine know what I'm talking abut) and CABOOM, Check Engine light turned ON and the car started to sound like a tractor. Got off the fwy, turned the engine off, started it again, and it was working smoothly, w/ the idle/slow speed vibration only. The Check Engine light was still on.

Went to the mechanic, and this time it showed Random Misfire + Misfire on cyl's 1, 4 and 5. He cleared the errors and I'm scheduled to leave the car there for a couple of days, he just needs to reserve a loaner car for me.

Driving home at night it happend again; driving ~65mph, I accelerated to ~75 and anothe CABOOM, Check Engine light turned on and a bizarre sound came from the engine. Got of the fwy with little speed I had, and when parked in idle, the whole car was vibrating VERY strongly, as if one or more cylinders weren't working at all.

Amazingly, turned the iginition OFF and then ON again and everything was working normaly (well, except that annying initial light vibration @ idle/slow speed.

Oh, and it seems troubles are falling all together, as just when I start driving the breaks warning come on..... so now I'll also need to replace the breaks?

It seems to me the mechanic is clueless.
I'd hate to pay the stealership visit.
Pleeeeeeease....Any idea? Help? Advise?

Thanks.