What is the standard paint thickness? MB body tech...
02-12-2006, 10:43 AM
#1
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What is the standard paint thickness? MB body tech...
Question involves a dealer's inspection of a potential trade in and stating that the car has been repainted and therefore not as valuable. They used a paint thickness meter to measure the paint on the car and found it to be 11.5~13.5 mil. Allegedly, standard thickness is 3.5~4.4 mil. I helped my friend go over this car with a fine tooth comb including pulling back weather strps and grommets and there is no evidence of this car being repainted.
The only thing that we can think of is that the car might have been scratched or damaged in shipment and partially dis-assembled and re painted at the Jacksonville, Fl facility prior to delivery. Is there a way to check this or is this paint thickness thing a bunch of BS?
The only thing that we can think of is that the car might have been scratched or damaged in shipment and partially dis-assembled and re painted at the Jacksonville, Fl facility prior to delivery. Is there a way to check this or is this paint thickness thing a bunch of BS?
02-13-2006, 01:01 PM
#3
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I'd go to another dealer.
Did the appraisor bring out the paint meter because your car looks different than any other s-class?
I've never even seen them use a paint meter before. If you bought the car from them, maybe they know something you don't.
Did the appraisor bring out the paint meter because your car looks different than any other s-class?
I've never even seen them use a paint meter before. If you bought the car from them, maybe they know something you don't.
02-13-2006, 11:46 PM
#4
MBWorld Fanatic!
It's the dealer's job to pay as little as possible for any trade in. I have, and would, tell the salesman, "No thanks. I'll sell it myself for $(fill in the blank) thousand over what you're offering. Hopefully I'll remember to come back to this dealership when I get that load of cash in the bank. That and I hope I can remember your name. You know, so that you can get that commission you deserve."
Of course he/she may whine and complain that it's not their fault, it's the dealership policy, it's the re-sale manager, blah, blah, blah. They'll also say the car you're looking at will be gone (like MB USA is going to stop importing cars), the one you're looking at has a special color combination that's hard to come by (you know, like silver/black - LOL), and will sell quick. Not to mention the car you're trading has a color combination that's tough to sell - you know, like that same silver/black.
The world's full of Benzos. There'll be one in two weeks after your buddy sells his.
Of course he/she may whine and complain that it's not their fault, it's the dealership policy, it's the re-sale manager, blah, blah, blah. They'll also say the car you're looking at will be gone (like MB USA is going to stop importing cars), the one you're looking at has a special color combination that's hard to come by (you know, like silver/black - LOL), and will sell quick. Not to mention the car you're trading has a color combination that's tough to sell - you know, like that same silver/black.
The world's full of Benzos. There'll be one in two weeks after your buddy sells his.
02-14-2006, 10:48 AM
#5
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04 C320 Coupe MT
The dealer is telling you the truth that the paint thickness should be 3.5 mills to 4.4 mills.
However, the issue is where did the extra paint come from? Your theory that it was painted at the VPC could be correct, but here is another possibility: It is very common for cars to be repainted at the factory. I have seen them go through the paint line, sometimes the whole car, sometimes just certain panels get painted and the rest of the car is masked off.
The real question is: what panels have the extra paint thickness? Is it just some or the whole? And, once you know that you can start digging to see if there was a repair or not.
I hope this helps.
However, the issue is where did the extra paint come from? Your theory that it was painted at the VPC could be correct, but here is another possibility: It is very common for cars to be repainted at the factory. I have seen them go through the paint line, sometimes the whole car, sometimes just certain panels get painted and the rest of the car is masked off.
The real question is: what panels have the extra paint thickness? Is it just some or the whole? And, once you know that you can start digging to see if there was a repair or not.
I hope this helps.
02-14-2006, 12:49 PM
#6
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Originally Posted by mbbodytech
It is very common for cars to be repainted at the factory. I have seen them go through the paint line, sometimes the whole car, sometimes just certain panels get painted and the rest of the car is masked off.
02-15-2006, 08:20 AM
#7
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Mbbodytech
Thanks for your reply to my post. Please e-mail me back with any additional info. Here is what we have done so far: The dealer's appraiser who discovered this showed us with the paint thickness meter that all the entire car except the trunk lid was 11.5~13.5 mils. The trunk lid is a standard 4.4~5.0 mil. The question is...who painted this car, when did they do it and what did they use?
Another question is why is the trunk lid different? There are NO SIGNS that this car has been painted. No paint lines!! No bolts have been turned except for the 4 cap screws that hold the trunk lid to the hinges. Speculation on that is that the lid my have been damaged and replaced with a new piece that has only an original layer. The 11.5+/- thickness even carries into the door jambs!
I called a friend who runs a high end body shop here and he looked at the car and confirmed what we found at the dealer. My friend was fomerly with MBUSA in New Jersey and gave us some tips which we are following.
I have called the original dealer and got a copy of the VMI which indicates no paint or body work. Car Fax is clean. I called VPC in Jacksonville, gave them the VIN and they don't have any record of the car being painted. I have left message for their SPOM to call me and will follow up today. We wrote a letter to MBUSA requesting a field inspection of the vehicle. I sent copies of proof of ownership to them as requested.
Your statement indicating that you have seen or heard of cars running through the paint shop twice at the factory is what I am chasing with MBUSA. The repaint is so good that no body can tell with out the paint meter!! If the car was double or tripple coated at the factory, we need to have docs from MBUSA that validate that.
Your thoughts on this are welcomed and encouraged.
Another question is why is the trunk lid different? There are NO SIGNS that this car has been painted. No paint lines!! No bolts have been turned except for the 4 cap screws that hold the trunk lid to the hinges. Speculation on that is that the lid my have been damaged and replaced with a new piece that has only an original layer. The 11.5+/- thickness even carries into the door jambs!
I called a friend who runs a high end body shop here and he looked at the car and confirmed what we found at the dealer. My friend was fomerly with MBUSA in New Jersey and gave us some tips which we are following.
I have called the original dealer and got a copy of the VMI which indicates no paint or body work. Car Fax is clean. I called VPC in Jacksonville, gave them the VIN and they don't have any record of the car being painted. I have left message for their SPOM to call me and will follow up today. We wrote a letter to MBUSA requesting a field inspection of the vehicle. I sent copies of proof of ownership to them as requested.
Your statement indicating that you have seen or heard of cars running through the paint shop twice at the factory is what I am chasing with MBUSA. The repaint is so good that no body can tell with out the paint meter!! If the car was double or tripple coated at the factory, we need to have docs from MBUSA that validate that.
Your thoughts on this are welcomed and encouraged.
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02-15-2006, 09:45 AM
#8
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mbbodytech
As a follow up to the above, I just spoke with the MBUSA Service and Parts Supervisor for the South Eastern USA out of the Jacksonville, Fl. VPC. I described this situation to him and he offered the following:
We are meeting with the head of service at another dealer here in West Palm and he will inspect this car and give us his conclusion.
The car may have been painted twice at the factory in Germany. He is thoroughly investigating what might have been done at Jacksonville VPC but doubts seriously that the car was completely repainted there. He said he had been to Germany 6 times and has seen instances where cars have not passed a certain part of an inspection and if they are too far along to re-work that the cars are scrapped! He said it might be impossible to document that the factory painted a car twice but added that if there are no traditional indicators that the car has been repainted then it was probably done by the factory in Germany.
I will follow up as we know more.
We are meeting with the head of service at another dealer here in West Palm and he will inspect this car and give us his conclusion.
The car may have been painted twice at the factory in Germany. He is thoroughly investigating what might have been done at Jacksonville VPC but doubts seriously that the car was completely repainted there. He said he had been to Germany 6 times and has seen instances where cars have not passed a certain part of an inspection and if they are too far along to re-work that the cars are scrapped! He said it might be impossible to document that the factory painted a car twice but added that if there are no traditional indicators that the car has been repainted then it was probably done by the factory in Germany.
I will follow up as we know more.
02-15-2006, 11:50 AM
#9
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Just curious, but what was the dollar loss of value the dealer was suggesting and the trade-in value he was offering?
02-15-2006, 04:05 PM
#10
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Thread Starter
Update
Met with Palm Beach dealer this afternoon. Their appraisal was $10K higher that the Pompano Beach dealer!!! 
WTF over!!! Anyway...their appraiser said that even though the car metered high, the finish was excellent and there is no visible evidence that it had been painted outside the factory. Further, the appraiser said that if this car was painted outside the factory, he wanted to meet the guy who did it so he would know who he was because he is THE BEST.
Bottom line, they feel that it is a factory job and would not diminish the value of the car.
The use of a paint thickness meter can be a valuable tool. It will "zero out" when passed over bond or filler. To use it as a scare tactic to try to steal someones car is wrong and with out ethics.
The regional service and parts manager admits that sometimes cars are coated heavier at the factory. This is part of the production process and is not archived as a specific event. It is impossible to document. Those of us out here in consumer land must be educated as to the use and abuse of tools used by dealers to make their deals. At the end of the day it comes down to integrity.
WTF over!!! Anyway...their appraiser said that even though the car metered high, the finish was excellent and there is no visible evidence that it had been painted outside the factory. Further, the appraiser said that if this car was painted outside the factory, he wanted to meet the guy who did it so he would know who he was because he is THE BEST.Bottom line, they feel that it is a factory job and would not diminish the value of the car.
The use of a paint thickness meter can be a valuable tool. It will "zero out" when passed over bond or filler. To use it as a scare tactic to try to steal someones car is wrong and with out ethics.
The regional service and parts manager admits that sometimes cars are coated heavier at the factory. This is part of the production process and is not archived as a specific event. It is impossible to document. Those of us out here in consumer land must be educated as to the use and abuse of tools used by dealers to make their deals. At the end of the day it comes down to integrity.
Last edited by sprink49; 02-15-2006 at 04:10 PM.
02-15-2006, 04:16 PM
#11
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That's good news! If they have a car you like on their lot, it probably wouldn't hurt to go to the other So. Fla. dealers to work out your best deal.
Even though they are all now owned by the same people it is still worth it to shop around.
Even though they are all now owned by the same people it is still worth it to shop around.
02-15-2006, 08:24 PM
#12
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New to the board here, 79 450sl
.... and indeed we got an estimate for a complete paint job..... 8 to 12K.... and the standard thickness is about 5 mils..... ours is already 7 mils.... and the paint shop said... it has been painted before and they did a poor job... this is when he pulled the paint meter! we had him used on another vehicle that we know.... and it was 4 to 5 mils....
cheers
Michel
.... and indeed we got an estimate for a complete paint job..... 8 to 12K.... and the standard thickness is about 5 mils..... ours is already 7 mils.... and the paint shop said... it has been painted before and they did a poor job... this is when he pulled the paint meter! we had him used on another vehicle that we know.... and it was 4 to 5 mils....
cheers
Michel
02-16-2006, 09:40 AM
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**SOLD***2003 E500
Another check for you.
If you will PM me your Vin# I can will have a check done in a different system then car-fax for you. No cost to you at all. I am very curious why the thickness is so high. In all my years of inspecting cars, 3.5- 5.0 is average, and as long as the car is consistent in that range with no visible evidence otherwise, the car is considered correct and original. To be twice plus that is very suspect, regardless of what the representative is telling you.
Randy B
Randy B
