1998 E430 - More A/C Problems
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From: West Virginia
2001 E320 RWD - Brilliant Silver/Ash: 100,000+
1998 E430 - More A/C Problems
Hello friends,
I was also experiencing A/C trouble; warmer air on the driver's side, cooler on the passenger's - but really not cool enough overall.
I took it to a local dealer for evaluation and the service writer gave me a quote for $1,794.50 ($1,286.33 parts and $508.16 labor). Main parts are compressor, receiver/drier, and auxilliary right fan. He said there is a missing belt that allows one fan to run off another, so I assume that is a coincidental problem around the radiator (quote says "fan replacement if needed").
In the next breath, he said that after recharging the system with gas, the technician smelled a hint of the refrigerant when he started the car. He then explained that this might mean the evaporator core might be bad, and that therefore the entire job might cost me $4,589.72 ($2,038.93 parts and $2,550.78 labor) and that it takes 19 hours @ $94 each to perform the evaporator job alone (more labor intensive than replacing the entire engine!).
I'd like to know this: Isn't there any way to diagnose my A/C problem more accurately than this? Also, if they do the first job, then determine it was the evaporator afterall, how will anyone (me primarily) know if the compressor-receiver/dryer job was even necessary?
Lastly, the car is not worth spending over $4,500 on, and I have access to an M-B tech who moonlights if anyone is going to get this job. For now, I'm waiting to see how long the re-charge lasts.
Any feedback will be greatly appreciated,
Musikmann
I was also experiencing A/C trouble; warmer air on the driver's side, cooler on the passenger's - but really not cool enough overall.
I took it to a local dealer for evaluation and the service writer gave me a quote for $1,794.50 ($1,286.33 parts and $508.16 labor). Main parts are compressor, receiver/drier, and auxilliary right fan. He said there is a missing belt that allows one fan to run off another, so I assume that is a coincidental problem around the radiator (quote says "fan replacement if needed").
In the next breath, he said that after recharging the system with gas, the technician smelled a hint of the refrigerant when he started the car. He then explained that this might mean the evaporator core might be bad, and that therefore the entire job might cost me $4,589.72 ($2,038.93 parts and $2,550.78 labor) and that it takes 19 hours @ $94 each to perform the evaporator job alone (more labor intensive than replacing the entire engine!).
I'd like to know this: Isn't there any way to diagnose my A/C problem more accurately than this? Also, if they do the first job, then determine it was the evaporator afterall, how will anyone (me primarily) know if the compressor-receiver/dryer job was even necessary?
Lastly, the car is not worth spending over $4,500 on, and I have access to an M-B tech who moonlights if anyone is going to get this job. For now, I'm waiting to see how long the re-charge lasts.
Any feedback will be greatly appreciated,
Musikmann
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,627
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From: West Virginia
2001 E320 RWD - Brilliant Silver/Ash: 100,000+
More Info
1998
E430
125k miles
Probably not needed but options:
CD changer
Power rear window sunshade
Addendum: System was fully charged 6 days ago, and so far it is cooling the car well.
A/C diagnostics now are:
1 78
2 84
3 51
4 49
5 55
6 136
7 16
8 139
E B1234
E FF
Thanks in advance.
Musikmann
E430
125k miles
Probably not needed but options:
CD changer
Power rear window sunshade
Addendum: System was fully charged 6 days ago, and so far it is cooling the car well.
A/C diagnostics now are:
1 78
2 84
3 51
4 49
5 55
6 136
7 16
8 139
E B1234
E FF
Thanks in advance.
Musikmann
Last edited by Musikmann; May 29, 2006 at 04:13 PM. Reason: mistake
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E55 2001, Hayabusa 2005, TL1000R 2001
Make a note to NEVER go to that dealer... Car is low on the refrigerant, that`s it. now the hell they know if your compressor is bad? Go to independent shop and let them do a leak test and show you where exacly it`s leaking. Most parts could be found online for a fraction of what MB dealer network selling them for.
Aux fan belt cost $10 and took 30 minutes to replace for average DIY guy.
If they quoted as 'fan replacement is needed" it means only one thing... They trying to bend you over and ........
BTW... my AC works very nicely fro a few days now..
Aux fan belt cost $10 and took 30 minutes to replace for average DIY guy.
If they quoted as 'fan replacement is needed" it means only one thing... They trying to bend you over and ........
BTW... my AC works very nicely fro a few days now..
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 302
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From: Dublin, OH
05 ML350, 85 300D
I would agree on this one- a leak is a leak, the dryer should get changed when opening the system (cheap insurance)- the belt will fix the one fan, and apparently, the compressor is fine or it wouldn't be working still. The days of leaking shaft seals are over!!
I'm still baffled by these guys that can smell refrigerant- I've been working on AC my whole career (even ran a side business for a while doing things for independant shops/retrofitting hot rods, etc. and I can't smell refrigerant)- the oil maybe, but it would be dripping out the drains to be able to smell it inside the car.
19 hours is insane for a 210 evaporator, 140/129 ..ok 24 and up, but a 210 pays like 7 hours under warranty (if I remember right), we use 1.5 X warranty time, so more like 11 hours (rounding up), maybe they were adding the compressor, et al to that. The other thing I see wrong is that IF the compressor is bad, besides the dryer, MB says you must change the expansion valve (debris from the bad compressor kills it). Murray Motors are good people- I know the foreman there and he will help you out if needed, I'm sure.
I'm still baffled by these guys that can smell refrigerant- I've been working on AC my whole career (even ran a side business for a while doing things for independant shops/retrofitting hot rods, etc. and I can't smell refrigerant)- the oil maybe, but it would be dripping out the drains to be able to smell it inside the car.
19 hours is insane for a 210 evaporator, 140/129 ..ok 24 and up, but a 210 pays like 7 hours under warranty (if I remember right), we use 1.5 X warranty time, so more like 11 hours (rounding up), maybe they were adding the compressor, et al to that. The other thing I see wrong is that IF the compressor is bad, besides the dryer, MB says you must change the expansion valve (debris from the bad compressor kills it). Murray Motors are good people- I know the foreman there and he will help you out if needed, I'm sure.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 302
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From: Dublin, OH
05 ML350, 85 300D
I would agree on this one- a leak is a leak, the dryer should get changed when opening the system (cheap insurance)- the belt will fix the one fan, and apparently, the compressor is fine or it wouldn't be working still. The days of leaking shaft seals are over!!
I'm still baffled by these guys that can smell refrigerant- I've been working on AC my whole career (even ran a side business for a while doing things for independant shops/retrofitting hot rods, etc. and I can't smell refrigerant)- the oil maybe, but it would be dripping out the drains to be able to smell it inside the car.
19 hours is insane for a 210 evaporator, 140/129 ..ok 24 and up, but a 210 pays like 7 hours under warranty (if I remember right), we use 1.5 X warranty time, so more like 11 hours (rounding up), maybe they were adding the compressor, et al to that. The other thing I see wrong is that IF the compressor is bad, besides the dryer, MB says you must change the expansion valve (debris from the bad compressor kills it). Murray Motors are good people- I know the foreman there and he will help you out if needed, I'm sure.
I'm still baffled by these guys that can smell refrigerant- I've been working on AC my whole career (even ran a side business for a while doing things for independant shops/retrofitting hot rods, etc. and I can't smell refrigerant)- the oil maybe, but it would be dripping out the drains to be able to smell it inside the car.
19 hours is insane for a 210 evaporator, 140/129 ..ok 24 and up, but a 210 pays like 7 hours under warranty (if I remember right), we use 1.5 X warranty time, so more like 11 hours (rounding up), maybe they were adding the compressor, et al to that. The other thing I see wrong is that IF the compressor is bad, besides the dryer, MB says you must change the expansion valve (debris from the bad compressor kills it). Murray Motors are good people- I know the foreman there and he will help you out if needed, I'm sure.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: West Virginia
2001 E320 RWD - Brilliant Silver/Ash: 100,000+
To: Vic_E55_2001
Originally Posted by Vic_E55_2001
Make a note to NEVER go to that dealer... Car is low on the refrigerant, that`s it. now the hell they know if your compressor is bad? Go to independent shop and let them do a leak test and show you where exacly it`s leaking. Most parts could be found online for a fraction of what MB dealer network selling them for.
Aux fan belt cost $10 and took 30 minutes to replace for average DIY guy.
If they quoted as 'fan replacement is needed" it means only one thing... They trying to bend you over and ........
BTW... my AC works very nicely fro a few days now..
Aux fan belt cost $10 and took 30 minutes to replace for average DIY guy.
If they quoted as 'fan replacement is needed" it means only one thing... They trying to bend you over and ........
BTW... my AC works very nicely fro a few days now..
That's the dealer I've been going to - and it always seemed like they treated me fairly in the past, BUT this is the 1st potentially expensive thing I've encountered in my 10 months of ownership; the other stuff was easy and cheap.
For what it's worth, the quote says "fan replacement IF needed (not is). The belt job, by itself, would cost $30.45 (belt + labor). There is no itemized price for the IFFY fan, but the labor for 1.8hr is $169.20. I guess they didn't quote the fan price since they have to test it once the belt is in place. The only thing else I think I know, is that it was not running at all since it's powered off of a primary fan and the two are connected by that belt.
I'm going to an independent shop as soon as I can get the car over there, and do exactly as you advised - have the guy run a leak test so we'll know EXACTLY what is at fault. It really sounds like this dealer is only guessing.
Congrats on your DIY A/C job!! - mine is too luckily, for the time being anyway, after the R134a recharge a week ago.
Musikmann
P.S. Mucho thanks for your feedback!
Last edited by Musikmann; May 30, 2006 at 08:01 PM. Reason: adding to message
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: West Virginia
2001 E320 RWD - Brilliant Silver/Ash: 100,000+
To: MBTech21
Originally Posted by MBTech21
I would agree on this one- a leak is a leak, the dryer should get changed when opening the system (cheap insurance)- the belt will fix the one fan, and apparently, the compressor is fine or it wouldn't be working still. The days of leaking shaft seals are over!!
I'm still baffled by these guys that can smell refrigerant- I've been working on AC my whole career (even ran a side business for a while doing things for independant shops/retrofitting hot rods, etc. and I can't smell refrigerant)- the oil maybe, but it would be dripping out the drains to be able to smell it inside the car.
19 hours is insane for a 210 evaporator, 140/129 ..ok 24 and up, but a 210 pays like 7 hours under warranty (if I remember right), we use 1.5 X warranty time, so more like 11 hours (rounding up), maybe they were adding the compressor, et al to that. The other thing I see wrong is that IF the compressor is bad, besides the dryer, MB says you must change the expansion valve (debris from the bad compressor kills it). Murray Motors are good people- I know the foreman there and he will help you out if needed, I'm sure.
I'm still baffled by these guys that can smell refrigerant- I've been working on AC my whole career (even ran a side business for a while doing things for independant shops/retrofitting hot rods, etc. and I can't smell refrigerant)- the oil maybe, but it would be dripping out the drains to be able to smell it inside the car.
19 hours is insane for a 210 evaporator, 140/129 ..ok 24 and up, but a 210 pays like 7 hours under warranty (if I remember right), we use 1.5 X warranty time, so more like 11 hours (rounding up), maybe they were adding the compressor, et al to that. The other thing I see wrong is that IF the compressor is bad, besides the dryer, MB says you must change the expansion valve (debris from the bad compressor kills it). Murray Motors are good people- I know the foreman there and he will help you out if needed, I'm sure.
I've also been told that the drier MUST to be replaced anytime the A/C system is opened. You said "should" - please clarify. I'm willing to do this much (parts and labor about $250).
As far as the belt, they didn't even quote a price for the fan (maybe an oversight) but they want 1.8 hours to R & R "if needed". Belt part plus labor is only $30.45. I'm willing to let them do this too.
I was told by another guy who looked at the diagnostic codes (lexrex wrote some software for this) that the compressor was working based on the pressure, but that he had to replace his own compressor due to a shaft leak, and he also has a W210 - E320 (don't know mileage and year).
The evaporator job ALONE was a $710 rebuilt evap core and 19 hours for R & R. The compressor, drier, hoses, o-rings, gas and all that labor was over and above that. Grand total was almost $4600!
Thank you very much for your informed comments,
Musikmann
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From: Louisiana
03 E500 and Corvette
I can't believe 5 G's for the a/c.
Now as for the dryer. I might replace one if I was doing a major component repair. When I open a system I immediately plug the lines. Ok,, I know a wisp of air does get in. But the lines are closed. When replacing I evacuate for a min of 1 hr. Then recharge. It has always worked for me. I do however change the dryer and orifice tube on those that have the tube when the evap, or compressor is changed. I would also pressure flush the system with a a/c flush compond that is not Cheap.
$5G's I would
and then question what other stories were they telling in the past. 
Jim
Now as for the dryer. I might replace one if I was doing a major component repair. When I open a system I immediately plug the lines. Ok,, I know a wisp of air does get in. But the lines are closed. When replacing I evacuate for a min of 1 hr. Then recharge. It has always worked for me. I do however change the dryer and orifice tube on those that have the tube when the evap, or compressor is changed. I would also pressure flush the system with a a/c flush compond that is not Cheap.
$5G's I would
and then question what other stories were they telling in the past. Jim
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Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: West Virginia
2001 E320 RWD - Brilliant Silver/Ash: 100,000+
To: vettdvr aka Jim
Originally Posted by vettdvr
I can't believe 5 G's for the a/c.
Now as for the dryer. I might replace one if I was doing a major component repair. When I open a system I immediately plug the lines. Ok,, I know a wisp of air does get in. But the lines are closed. When replacing I evacuate for a min of 1 hr. Then recharge. It has always worked for me. I do however change the dryer and orifice tube on those that have the tube when the evap, or compressor is changed. I would also pressure flush the system with a a/c flush compond that is not Cheap.
$5G's I would and then question what other stories were they telling in the past. Jim
Now as for the dryer. I might replace one if I was doing a major component repair. When I open a system I immediately plug the lines. Ok,, I know a wisp of air does get in. But the lines are closed. When replacing I evacuate for a min of 1 hr. Then recharge. It has always worked for me. I do however change the dryer and orifice tube on those that have the tube when the evap, or compressor is changed. I would also pressure flush the system with a a/c flush compond that is not Cheap.
$5G's I would
and then question what other stories were they telling in the past. JimThe lion's share of that 5 G's was the evaporator core ($710) and 19 hours labor @ 19hr ($1,786)
Although still expensive, the drier ($154), the compressor ($876), O-rings, hoses, gas and dye ($157) and about 5 hours labor ($480) - Total $1,800 is what they want for all that is probably needed.
Update: I was back in there today for a detail, and talked to the actual tech who did the diagnosis. He said the compressor WAS leaking, and that he only mentioned the evaporator because he was not 100% sure it was NOT leaking, and just because he could not see any dye escaping. I think I follow that - darn thing is buried behind the dashboard.
I feel much more comfortable now, partly because the service writer and the tech could look me in the eye when they were talking about this. When I started this thread, I had fewer facts.
Bottom line: Repairs (labor + parts) are expensive at dealerships. I think they do dependable work, and you do get 12 months replacement warranties on the M-B new, or rebuilt, parts.
Will I pay $1,800 to fix the A/C in a vehicle that is probably worth $10,000 with, or without this job? I seriously doubt it. Will I pay $1,000 to an Indy shop for the same work and same car? Possibly, but I'm leaning away from that too. Might I trade this car while the A/C is still blowing cool air? You can bet on that - test drove something today
Thanks for your input,
Dave
Last edited by Musikmann; Jun 1, 2006 at 07:48 PM. Reason: bad grammar
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E55 2001, Hayabusa 2005, TL1000R 2001
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: West Virginia
2001 E320 RWD - Brilliant Silver/Ash: 100,000+
To: Vic_E55_2001
Originally Posted by Vic_E55_2001
Wow, thanks a lot. That seller has a 100% good feedback too!
A friend just reminded me about a guy right here in town who has worked on M-Bs for years, and another guy who works on all imports. He also said that I might do a little better to use some shop that speacializes in A/C - he recommended one place in particular. I'm still waiting to see how long the re-charge lasts; like you said earlier, if it's a slow leak, $100/year for a recharge is a reasonable alternative to doing the full fix. I'm also looking for a newer M-B to trade for, and have been, this problem gets me a little more in the mood.
Just for the heck of it, I'm going to write that seller to see who rebuilds these compressors. They only want $549 for "Buy it now" and the bids are now at $535. Either way, that's a LOT better than $876 at that dealer.
Regards,
Musikmann
Thread Starter
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From: West Virginia
2001 E320 RWD - Brilliant Silver/Ash: 100,000+
I made a mistake, sorry
I stated earlier that to replace that little belt between the 2 radiator fans was only $30.45 - WRONG. That's what the belt costs, the tech told me that they have to remove the fan housing to get to it, and said that takes over 1 hour.
So, that would be more than $150 PLUS the price of the fan if needed (I didn't ask what they want for that - why bother, they aren't getting any of these jobs anyway)
M
So, that would be more than $150 PLUS the price of the fan if needed (I didn't ask what they want for that - why bother, they aren't getting any of these jobs anyway)
M
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E55 2001, Hayabusa 2005, TL1000R 2001
Originally Posted by vettdvr
Ok,, I surrender, what belts. On the fan on the engine?
Or in the instrument panel.?
Jim
Or in the instrument panel.?
JimOne fan has electric motor in it. If belt broken another fan doesn`t move.
belt itself cost ~$10-12 bucks. Run away from the dealer who said $30 bucks.
try this place: alloemautoparts.com
click here
Conti brand is way better then OEM anyway.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: West Virginia
2001 E320 RWD - Brilliant Silver/Ash: 100,000+
To: Vic_E55_2001
Originally Posted by Vic_E55_2001
It`s pretty clean design, two fans in front dreeven with one tiny belt.
One fan has electric motor in it. If belt broken another fan doesn`t move.
belt itself cost ~$10-12 bucks. Run away from the dealer who said $30 bucks.
try this place: alloemautoparts.com
click here
Conti brand is way better then OEM anyway.
One fan has electric motor in it. If belt broken another fan doesn`t move.
belt itself cost ~$10-12 bucks. Run away from the dealer who said $30 bucks.
try this place: alloemautoparts.com
click here
Conti brand is way better then OEM anyway.
Musikmann
Thread Starter
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From: West Virginia
2001 E320 RWD - Brilliant Silver/Ash: 100,000+
Update
Originally Posted by Vic_E55_2001
Hey, you welcome...
I traded my A/C problem for a CPO LOADED 2001 E320 last Saturday. I bought 1 year additional warranty, so I now have 24/100,000 on a 52,000 vehicle.
I'm going to miss that 275 HP 8-cylinder engine, but I think I'll drive this for a year or so, and then start looking for an E500 (03 or 04) that's CPO also. I'll also be watching for a newer E55 - I'd LOVE to have an AMG power plant!
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: West Virginia
2001 E320 RWD - Brilliant Silver/Ash: 100,000+
Vic_E55_2001
Originally Posted by Vic_E55_2001
Congratulations on new car. You gonna love fuel economy .My AC still blowing cold as it should... I guess i`d keep a car for a while...
.My AC still blowing cold as it should... I guess i`d keep a car for a while...Thanks for the congrats! The salesman told me too about the fuel economy. I'm going to keep a close eye on it, at least during my next road trip.
Keeping your car now? Heck, I thought you wanted to sell it to me - or was that before I traded?
To tell you the truth, I'd much rather have the 8-cylinder HP and torque of an E55 or an E500 than a few more miles per gallon.
