DtS

Hi folks.

Problems started yesterday. After flooring my car from a red-light the gear-box appeared to be stuck in second gear. After slowing down a bit (using the brakes), the third, fourth and fifth gear engaged as intended.

Same thing occured earlier this evening. After slowing down completely there was a "clunk"-noise as the first gear engaged. No problems afterwards. Gearbox worked as intended. And now recently when I was on my way home, the gear-box initially worked as it should, but after stopping at a red light, the gear-box was locked into second gear (what I believe is the limp-mode). Half a minute later the "check engine" light came on. I pulled over and stopped the car. Started it again, but the limp-mode and check engine light remained there. So now my car is in the garage with what appears to be a faulty gear-box .

Anyone else had this problem. I tried to search the forums and found some related issues on CLK's and ML's, but none on the C's. Any suggestions on what can be wrong. Any suggestions on how much it will be to fix.

Thanks in advance for any kind of feedback!

DtS

Some updates. Went out for a short test-drive and found to my surprise that the gear-box now would use all 5 gears. The Check-engine light is still on though... And the tranny appears to be in W-mode, even though the MFD says it's in S-mode. This is a mystery. Looks like some kind of electrical gizmo to me, rather than a gear-box failure.... Still very annoying though.

Any thoughts?

Mike T.

I'm sorry to hear about your problem. It is incredible to me though, that any W 203 would not have a warranty that lasts for more than one or two years. In Canada the warranty lasts 4 years/80,000 km, plus there's a 120,000 km powertrain warranty on top of that.

You should lean VERY HEAVILY on M-B Sweden to give you a free repair. I think this may be a case where they could bend the rules a bit for you, in the interest of good customer relations.

The problem does sound electronic, which may or may not mean it's cheaper to repair than a "normal" automatic transmission failure.

My sister's Subaru Legacy just ate its manual gearbox at 60,000 km, but because she has an 80,000 km powertrain warranty, she gets a free new gearbox plus clutch.

Best of luck to you.

DtS

Thank you very much for your sympathies MikeT! I'm just about to make the phone-call to MB-Sweden. I hope for the very best....

DtS

Some updates. Got a call from my service guy yesterday, who told me my car was ready. He told me the source of the problem was in a faulty EGS-connector. I went to pick up the car but after ~500 yards, the gearbox went into limp-mode again

So, here I am without my car.... ....again....

DtS

More updates: A tech called me today and told me he ordered a new valve-body. Hope it will be there by tomorrow.

(How can a valvebody on a MB only last for 11000 miles? )

Mike T.

Well I hope you get a satisfactory repair.

I've always been biased against automatic transmissions because the driver is not in control of the wear rate. For example, the clutch packs and brake bands wear on every shift at a pre-determined rate and just about nothing you do can change that rate of wear.

On the other hand, with a manual transmission, the driving technique directly bears on the way the transmission wears. For example, my uncle and I both get a minimum of 350,000 km from our cars' original clutches. Of course, the gearboxes are also fine at that mileage because we shift gears sensibly.

But that's no excuse for your problem. I would not expect to have to make any repairs to a Mercedes-Benz automatic transmission until 160,000-200,000 km.

mdp c230k

MB transmissions are not the most durable units on earth. It is not uncommon for them to last less than 100k miles. This is especially true on diesel cars as the torque tears them up more quickly.

patrick

BS!
If you do not know anything about it, please do not reply.
No further comment.
Patrick

patrick

The MB electronic automatic transmissions are able to notice every kind of wear (noticeable by comparing different rpm's in the tranny while running, shifting, and so on...), and to adapt to it by changing shifting pressures and time.
You cannot drive until friction plates are totally worn because after maximum adaption is reached and there is still too much skid (proper English?), the transmission will go into limp mode.
These automatic transmissions (722.6) are made from 1995 on, and I have never seen one with worn clutch packs. They do not have any brake bands, only the older types of transmissions (722.3/4/5) have.
Patrick

DtS

Thanks for your replies!

Here's the (hopefully) final update.

Got my car back two days ago, and now it seems to work as intended. As I mentioned before the first time, the a EGS-switch (partno: A0305452332) was replaced. The second time the electro-hydralic control-device (partno: A140270060680) was replaced, and this seemed to solve the problem .

Final price tag: ~$1500 (according to the copy of the work-order). Luckily MB Sweden considered this a "good will"-repair, so I ended up paying nothing. Very good!

I'm happy agian!

patrick

Dts,
Thank you for informing us about your car. For me it was sure that MB would not let you pay the repair.
Patrick

mdp c230k

As a matter of fact I do know about MB transmissions. So You should not assume I don't. i.e. shut you piehole
Through personal experience of family members and a very good friend who is a certified MB tech I can say without any doubt that MB automatic transmissions are not built as well as they should be and dont last over 100k with any certainty. You are obviously an uniformed ignoramous. It is you that should review your facts. Until then keep you fingers off the keyboard. Get it?

Mike T.

Play nice

patrick

...and I am Santa Claus.
My experiences are based upon about 40 MB passenger cars we repair every day (we also do trucks, but that is not my department), regular MB training and special troubleshooting meetings. At work, my computer is connected with MB-Germany to receive all the latest information.
My bosses have 5 MB workshops (the 40 MB's every day mentioned before are only at my workshop), and about 8000 customers.
http://www.vereenooghe.mercedes.be/Nl/Pkw/
I guess this is not the same as "...personal experience of family members and a very good friend..."?
But maybe you do have good reasons to call names?
Patrick (no nick name)

mdp c230k

You're right, my only knowledge of MB is the ten cars my family has had and the fifteen transmissions gone through in less than 100k each. My friend who is factory trained tech with over 25 years experience also agrees that MB automatic transmissions do not last as long as their motors. He only works on about 60 cars a week so he cant compare to you godlikeness. Remember that driving in the US is not driving in europe, we start and stop in heavy traffic all day long then will go on long trips. This is not the same as the eurocycle and does different things to the cars. Does your computer also tell you about what is being done at non-factory shops? No? Well you will find that many people take their cars to independant repair facilities after warranty is over so they dont get soaked by the high labor rates. So sure your computer tells you about what the factory wants to tell you, not the whole story. Keep towing the factory line like a good lacky.....

patrick

How can one know all about the MB systems without any factory back-up?
No wonder independant shops change complete transmissions easily. This way of working costs a lot more than just the "high labor rates" in official MB-shops you mentioned.
Greetz to your "friend".
Patrick

DtS

Just wanted to say that I'm very greatful for all the answers (related to the thread topic).

Thanks everyone!

Patrick - it's nice to know to have a certified MB-tech around (I'm not very good at reading your language (datch??), but according to the web page you linked to - it appears to me that you're some kind of chief-mechanic, correct?).

/Daniel

mdp c230k

Where did I say 'change complete'? It is a false assumption on your part. My friend repairs most of the transmissions rather than replaces them. He also attends factory clinics to maintain his status as a certified MB tech and as such can access any info he needs. His shop here in West Los Angeles is very highly rated for its quality of work. Do only big hospitals have good doctors? Maybe in Belgium but not here. I respect your opinion it just does not match what I've seen here.
PS my "friend" says hello and invites you to visit any time.

patrick

You are correct.
In the upper half of Belgium (and also the whole Netherlands) we speak Dutch, the lower part of Belgium speaks French (but many people are bi-lingual overhere).
Patrick

mleskovar

It's a small world after all. We believe in Santa Claus too! However, I appreciate the factory technical training, work experience, and professionalism you bring to the forum.

Mercedes101

Patrick - based on your experience how long can one expect the 5 speed automatic transmissions to last under normal conditions? Should one change the fluid (if possible on a 01 C Class) even though it is not required? I agree that much of the thinking about manual vs. automatic transmissions is based on outdated information.

patrick

Since they made those transmissions from 1995 on, we have seen many of them last as long as the whole car itself.
My opinion is that every time a new model comes up it takes some time to attune the software to the needs of the model. For this reason there were some problems in the beginning (control units and valve bodies needed to be replaced) and now we have these problems again with the 211 model (control units are modified and must be replaced).
The problem with the valve body is that it only can be replaced as a whole unit. It definitly is not that complicated as the "brains" were on former types of transmissions. But if, for example, one of the electric valves on it does not work right the whole body needs to be replaced.
In the beginning we have been fully informed by Mercedes about "known" problems with mechanical parts, but we have not seen many of them in the workshop.
Now, if we have one in the workshop with problems with mechanical parts of the transmission, it is mostly because they neglected to visit a (good) workshop after having oil leakage.
(For example they "feel" the transmission does not shift as usual and sometimes they have seen something on the floor of their garage, but just keep on driving)
I am pretty sure that the mechanical part is quite good, but it is just a pity that the valvebody only can be replaced completely.
Tough it is not prescribed maybe you can change the fluid and the filter every 100000 kms (= ? miles), but in that case I would also recommend to reset all adaption values with the Star Diagnosis laptop.
With the Star Diagnosis laptop there is also a possibility to check the state of the fluid.
A mechanic who is familiar with the system can tell, depending on these values (state, adaptation,...), if the fluid needs to be replaced.
Patrick

mleskovar

"With the Star Diagnosis laptop there is also a possibility to check the state of the fluid." Wow. What is the readout? "OK" or "Replace" or what? My understanding is that the transmission is basically a closed unit not needing service unless there is a leak. Mine is one of the best I have ever driven. Reputation for durability is excellent as well.

patrick

The readout is a number that must be under a certain value.
It is not because a transmission is a closed unit that the fluid stays good forever. It is liable to high pressures, friction, certain temperatures and so on.
Patrick