fkong777

I have my driver and passenger front windows developing bubbles on the glass edge (de-lamination).. Dealer quoted me $600 for labor to replace the glass. How hard is it to replace the glass?

sosh

Its easy if you know how to do it. If you have never attempted anything like this do not try it. You may end up paying for more than one piece of glass

fkong777

$200 for the glass. Stealer wants $300 per side for labor..

I've replaced windows before on other cars.. I ususally work on my own car on all job unless it requires a lift or heavy lifting shop rigs..

MBTech21

In so Cal, thats about 2.5 hrs labour- about right. Sure they will probably be able to do it faster, but thats after investing tens of thousands of dollars in tools,training, etc.
Some of you guys kill me, you come here looking for advice and help, then slam us for being thieves...your right, if you are a IT person,doctor, carpenter, banker,, I should ask you for help for free, then call you a thief because you make a living off your knowledge......

Maybe its time to find another website...

sosh

Totally agree with you. There are far too many of those types here. They attempt to do it themselves, screw up the job then go to a dealer and complain about the cost of the job including the fix for their screw ups. Or, they go to an independent who gets it done but charges for more time than the dealer would and does not see the other problems with the vehicle and the people have not had any training updates in years and do not have the correct diagnostic tools or abitities. I guess they would shop around for brain surgery also. Many forget or do not care to think about the fact that the dealership is a for profit business with a major investment in a facility, tools, people and training. I abhor those who call dealers "stealers". These people have never owned or operated a business and are just collecting a paycheck with little or no regard for their employer. I wish that MB would sell the cars for lots more and then these people would be driving Fords or Chevys. Appreciate your comments!!

csumt76

Ill do it for $500.

mleskovar

If you've done side windows on other cars before go ahead and try it....it's worth the try if they're asking $600 for labor. The worse that can happen (if you don't break something) is you get stuck before you get the old windows out and end up putting it back together for someone else to fix....like an auto window business.

mleskovar

$600 for 2.5 hrs. labor?....I don't think so, even in SoCal. Besides, training, special tools, and experience should make the job more efficient thereby saving the consumer. fkong777is flat out being ripped off and you know it. Both windows should be no more than two hours max, even if you take a pee in the middle of the job and lose/break 4 fasteners. As far as 'quality' mechanics go dealers have just as many sloppy mechanics as independents but they all (good and bad) earn less/hr. with the dealer because of the split. Dealers overestimate time to customers and underpay time to their mechanics. Dealers also overcharge for the same parts. That's why people don't trust the dealers.

MBTech21

Whow...first I meant 2.5 hrs a side, i'd have to look it up, but i think it pays about 1.7 warranty- the usual markup for customer pay (the same labour guides your beloved independants use)is times 1.5..so actually, if you rounded, it should be 2.6 each.
Your right- my 20+ years of experience and 60,000 worth of tools (not to mention the dealer's investment in my training and my college and apprenticeship time), should be used to cut a customer that owns a 90,000 car a break. And be responsible for breakage, marks, crackeed wood,etc.I see where that makes the most sense-
Last time I went to the doctor, and he only looked at me for 5 minutes, because he had seen it before, he didn't only charge me for 5 minutes !!!
You forget, we are flat-rate!! That means we get paid by the job, and by the book, to use an example that I recently related to an other user of this forum, we lose big on a lot of warranty repairs. MB now pays 3.3 hours to overhaul a transmission. I'm fast, and have 100s of them apart, but no way I could do one in under 4 hours, and that would be with minimumal damage inside. It makes no difference how long the job takes, it pays what it pays, sometimes we win, and sometimes we lose, and the same for the customer, it may not be the best system, but it usually evens out in the end.
As far as the pay stuff, you have no idea what you are talking about, the dealer charges the customer the same hours they pay the tech(actually with a lot of menu items - tires/alignments/oil changes,etc- they charge the customer less than they pay the tech; thats why the new stat is "effective labor rate", and I have yet to see a dealer yet where their effective rate is as high as their door rate). We(the dealers) do have the same quality issues that the industry does in general, but think about it, you are a smart young guy, into cars, on this board, listens to the *****in, and thinks screw that, I'm going to work on computers- believe me this problem is going to get WAY worse before it gets better. I can foresee a time coming, for all cars, that labor rates are going to be a $200 an hour or more, because there won;t be anyone left to fix your cars, that problem is already here- try to find a guy that can rebuild a Quadrajet, or set up Solex carbs on an old SL, there's a few of us, but not many....As far as pay per hr...BS...believe me, I looked, I can't make more in an indy shop- not even close, and even if they paid me the same hourly rate(which would make most indy shop owners gag), it would be hourly, so I lose, instead of getting paid 60 hrs a wk, I get 40...
As far as parts- you know there is 6 matrixes in the US, right? You pay more there, than we do here. That's MB. I've seen some prices out of wack with the aftermarket, again, thats MB. I've seen some prices go through the roof, thats the supplier-Thanks Bosch!!!! Some dealers will markup more than others- they are running a business, that's their call.


Long rant , sorry, I was right , screw this website..Good work,mleskovar, you lost a lot of people some good advice....

mleskovar

Don't get your shorts in a bunch and thank you for verifying that dealers rip off their customers. This isn't about you, it's about the dealers. Correct my math.....1.7 hours times two windows is 3.4 times 1.5 (usual markup! what a hoot!) is just over 5 hours and they're charging him for at least 6 hours (guess)? 50% markup on labor is a rip off. If they gave more of that 'markup' to the mechanics it would benifit the mechanic and the customer. "Running a business" is a poor excuse for overcharging. If an internet parts supplier can provide an identical part(manufacturer and spec) for half the price on the internet why can't MB offer the part on the internet? Because it doesn't meet their ROI and $ is king. Customer satisfaction doesn't figure in the equation. As far as independent dealers are concerned I was referring to someone being one, not working for one. Most of the good independent shops I deal with are owner operated. Last, join the list of thin skinned MB mechanics that get fed up when the forum questions their statements.......

MBTech21

Actually, I figured it was 5 hours- its almost a $100 an hr here in the Midwest, so I figured it has to be 150 there(or more). My suggestion would be to go to MB about the parts prices- not the dealers- you apparently didn't want to read the part about the matrixes(MB does that), the overpriced older parts (not so much MB, more their suppliers-like Bosch), in almost 100% of the time, if the dealer sold it for what it was available for off the internet, it would be far under their cost!! Look up a warmup regulator for a 85 380SL sometime, on the internet, at the dealer...hmmm..only available from BOSCH, so remarkably overpriced- only a 300% increase in the last 10 years.
Absolutely, I could open my own shop, and charge less than the dealer, and make more money, and have to deal with it..research shows that most of these shops don;t survive, or really don;t make more money, or that the headaches far surpass the advantages, but everyone thinks they are great guys...As a hypothetical question, why do you suppose that an indy shop that is overloaded with work can't pay me 2/3 of what I make now, with the same benefits? Hmmm..maybe they aren't charging enough to make sufficent ROI? Do you have any idea what the profit margin is in dealership? Or should be? How about in an owner/operated shop? Or should be? You would be astonished at the numbers, I think...
As for the whole labor ripoff thing- I looked it up in a Mitchell and a Chilton time guide for the window replacement- 2.7 and 2.6 hrs, so, 5.4 and 5.2, even at an indy shop. Would a glass company do it cheaper?? Sure..especially if you buy their glass...
Lastly..I'm anything but thin-skinned, but when I can come on here, identify myself, where I work, what I do, and have to be told I am a thief, that my employer is a rip-off artist by someone who hides behind a screen-name- that pushs my buttons. Let us slam you every few days and see how you take it. If you watched this forum, and I believe you do, you would know that I am hard core MB, have been for a long time, and have the cred to prove it. It would be pretty easy for anyone to track me down with the info I have posted on here over the time I have been posting here. I think the forums are great, when people get accurate info, and get a little po'd when someone with an obvious vendetta comes on here and paints all of us with the same brush, and gives people wrong information, or leads them the wrong way. This forum is supposed to promote help!! With problems, or understanding.
I've noticed in the last week, that you have been unable to help all these people looking for tech advice, and it looks like very few others have either....

BTW..I love when people question my statements, I can be wrong, and will see other sides of arguements, make this it's own thread, and come to the board with a level playing field (ie: what you do, where you work, etc..etc..)...and lets have at it..I actually enjoy that type of thing.

To everyone else in the forum, wish I could help you right now with your problems, but it seems mleskovar is the guy to hook you up with an indy tech to answer all your questions...funny, I don't see them on here too much (apoligies up front to any that are- I know you are killing yourself making a living, and only a MB freak like me would even be on here doing this)..maybe mleskovar can hook you up for the answers this forum needs..

mleskovar

You still don't get it....charging a customer more than recommended (as you verified) 'because you can' is considered taking advantage of the customer....stealing from them....hence the play on words...."stealers" (I don't use the term but understand the slang). A mechanic's major concern is to beat the time to make money...correct? Customers are willing to pay a fare rate and most believe MB dealers overcharge. A 5 hour job charged out at 6 hours is a 20% hike!!! As far as the parts go the 'matrix' means nothing to me as a consumer, only what I pay is important. Please don't be so arrogant to think that people are actually following this thread...or you. I'm sure "everyone else on this forum" could care less if you or I discontinued our presence. Let's continue this via PM to save the forum bandwith....OK?

csumt76

Here is my $.02

That job warranty, for all four windows used to pay precisely 8.2 hrs. That includes removing all door panels, all the trim around the glass, the liner inside the door panel, replacing the pieces of glass, adjusting if needed, cleaning when done, etc. A dealer I used to work for had a hard time explaining how some techs were performing this repair to the auditers. Some were only running a couple hours on the job. To prove that it was possible to complete the job that fast, the service manager video taped a technician replacing all four side windows. He was limited to hand tools and a clock was placed on the windshield to display time elapsed. That is nothing new..... at one time MB was paying 20 hours for an evaporator on a W140. Legend has it that a guy had been doing all of the evaps at this one store. In total, I think he replaced nearly 90 of them. Catch was, he was only running 4 hours time on them. So MB was in disbelief.. naturally. Two guys sat and watched him replace the evaporator in under 4 hours, including a couple cigarette breaks.

On the other hand.. for example. A cupholder pays .1 to replace. Thats 6 minutes. It takes way longer than six minutes to get the car in the shop and have parts bring you a cupholder. On top of that you have to do the paperwork. I put a fuel tank in a 211 a couple weeks ago. I spent about 2 hours finding the leak, as it would only leak when completely full of gas. I spent about 8 hours actually doing the repair and retesting it. Warranty paid under 5 hours... I was not in a good mood. That was part of a 39 hour week where in fact I actually spent about 50 hours at the dealership.

Customer pay prices at my dealer are generally %30 over warranty time. Thats not set in stone, but its a pretty firm guideline. Some repairs equal warranty time. Also, extended warranty companies pay the same rate. They go by a time guide that is almost always over warranty time. Manufacturers develop their own time guides. Sometimes I have no clue where they come up with the stuff though... geez.

No need to get hostile in here.

sergs99m3

let me know if u want to do it, e-mail me at 1quikm3@adelphia.net

sergs99m3

let me know if u want to do it, e-mail me at 1quikm3@adelphia.net