Moviela

Mercedes had a turn of the century problem with engines that formed excessive sludge, and resulted in engine damage. The effect was expensive warranty repairs in the United States where warranties were roughly double the rest of the world. This led to the flexible service system, where sensors computed the oil quality, and nagged the driver to get the car serviced. This did not solve the problem, just stemmed the tide of warranty repairs.

Mercedes worked with Mann+Hummel and Mobil to engineer a solution that would allow 1 year/13,000 mile change interval. The first inovation was to use fleece (also known as polyester) in the oil filter. This allowed incresed fluid flow, and capture of smaller particulates. Now the oil was modified to have about twice the additives as other synthetic oils. This resists sludge and allows the long chain synthetic lubrication molecules do do their work. What "wears out" the oil is either time from first use due to moisture and oxidation, or mileage from the exposure to the by-products of combustion.

Mobil 1 is not available everywhere, and the Mercedes Sheet 229.5 oils are sometimes hard to find, and everyone from auto patrs stores to Amsoil salesmen will tell you how their product is better. It may be, but it does not meet the specifications of Sheet 229.5.

Notice that sheet 229.5 has none of the "boutique" brands like Amsoil, Redline, Lucas, Royal Purple, Swepco, and Torco. Some of the foreign name brands have a special formula to meet 229.5 and display it in the title, like "ELF Excellium 229.5 5W-30."" In any case the bottle of oil must state that it meets 229.5 on the label, or it is not approved. There are about 40 types approved on sheet 229.5, so you should be able to find suitable product anywhere.

I use Amsoil in some of my stationary engines, and last week the rep was all excited to show me his product met spec's for sheet 229.51. That is wonderful for diesel engines. Mercedes has suggested that gasoline engines use only sheet 229.5 oils, and leave 229.51 to the diesels.

For you Mazda guys, Felix Wankel is an industrial hero to me, and the rotary engine is a wonderful device. I was aware of the apex seal problems back in the 60's, and thought that Mazda had solved the problem from a materials perspective. If there is now a lubrication issue I might opine that the wrong Mobil 1 product is being used. It might be worth an Email to engineering at Mazda and Exxon-Mobil to get current advice.

Timeless

I believe that 229.51 superceeds and replaces 229.5 and that the Mobile One currently for sale meets 229.51 specs.

Moviela

Hi Timeless,

There was early publicity to that effect, but workshop experience has caused Mercedes to change their position, and suggest 229.5 for gasoline engines, and use the 229.51 oils in diesel powered vehicles.

Timeless

Can you still get Mobile one with 229.5? I thought it was all 229.51 now.

Losiho

"BMW Oil" is nothing more than re-badged Castrol.

lkchris

Yes, there is only one 229.51 oil, i.e. 5W-40 ESP, available only at Mercedes dealers and a few mailorder sources.

lkchris

Note that to be included on the "sheet," an oil company must submit its oil for testing and pay for it. It's not as if Mercedes is testing oils. It's simply not economically feasible for these small players to incur the expense.

uberwgn

M1 0W40 is still 229.5. That's become the dealer oil again for the gas cars.

lkchris

There was never an oil "changed" to 229.51

5W-40 ESP is a new oil

It depends on the dealer whether they want to stock two or one oil what you get there.

uberwgn

The new 229.51 oil was to be used in all cars regardless of fuel source. They've sinced changed their position as there are some issues with ethanol fuels and the 229.51 oil.

The 229.51 oil had become the bulk oil for a brief period. That's no longer the case.


https://mbworld.org/forums/showpost....92&postcount=8

Moviela

These brands are not small at all. Money is not a barrier. These oils need testing for an API rating or other standards orginization in the country where marketed. The tests are not provided by the health care industry, so they only cost about $ 1,000. Mercedes does not test themselves, because it is more economical to use an independent testing lab, even for their own internal testing. No one can point to favoritism if everyone ponies up for their own testing.

Perhaps I was not clear, the boutique brands are not on the sheet because they do not meet the specifications. They have worked hard to make people think they must change oil every three thousand miles.

Untertürkheim

I agree, there is no reason to use oil that does not have MB approval. M1 is very good oil, even though I prefer Pentosin (MB approved, of course).

uberwgn

Kent, here's the point of reference:

http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showpost.php?p=1369538&postcount=15


I guess it comes down to the credibility of the person typing the info. My local parts manager echoed this story. I've known him for 15 yrs. I don't believe he'd fabricate such a tale.

lkchris

Oh, I've never stated there wasn't the intent to use just one oil at dealerships.

That oil was going to be 5W-40 ESP.

It's a bit of a complication for dealerships to now have two bulk oils (or perhaps they just fill diesels from bottles) but perhaps that's the case.

What I've disputed is the notion there was ever going to be a change of the 0W-40 formula. There wasn't.

splitter

Why would I (or anyone in that case) toy with the recommended oils when the car in use is a merc.

lkchris

THAT's the relevant question.