question about a 2004 E500
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Super Member
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Houston
C55
question about a 2004 E500
I posted on the W211 forums, but would like a tech's input on the matter.
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w211/243232-esp-malfunction-visit-workshop.html
"Dealer (Mercedes Greenway of Houston) told me that its caused by the starter sticking to the flywheel. Stated that since the car was not driven too much the lubrication was gone (2004 w/ 18k miles) Easycare Extended Warranty does not want to pay for it saying its a lubricated device. Any ideas anyone?
I just read through the contract that I signed and the adjuster says my claim is negated through this clause:
7. Maintenence/ Parts:
b. Unless required as part of a covered repair; adjustments, lubricants, coolants and fluids.
The car would not start, I would like to think its a mechanical failure. Is the starter/crankcase self lubricating? Last time I checked lubricating those parts are not inclusive of the standard maintenance program of Mercedes Benz Vehicles.....I'd like to think that since the car would NOT start or crank, that there was an inherent mechanical failure.
To add insult to injury, they want to deny my claim for a new homelink on the grounds that it was broken prior to purchasing the warranty. I recently purchased a C55 and was able to program the homelink without issue. I looked in the user manual for both cars and realized that the instructions were identical, then concluded the homelink in the E500 was broken after trying to program it. Since I told them this, they want to deny the claim? What did I pay $3300 for?????"
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w211/243232-esp-malfunction-visit-workshop.html
"Dealer (Mercedes Greenway of Houston) told me that its caused by the starter sticking to the flywheel. Stated that since the car was not driven too much the lubrication was gone (2004 w/ 18k miles) Easycare Extended Warranty does not want to pay for it saying its a lubricated device. Any ideas anyone?
I just read through the contract that I signed and the adjuster says my claim is negated through this clause:
7. Maintenence/ Parts:
b. Unless required as part of a covered repair; adjustments, lubricants, coolants and fluids.
The car would not start, I would like to think its a mechanical failure. Is the starter/crankcase self lubricating? Last time I checked lubricating those parts are not inclusive of the standard maintenance program of Mercedes Benz Vehicles.....I'd like to think that since the car would NOT start or crank, that there was an inherent mechanical failure.
To add insult to injury, they want to deny my claim for a new homelink on the grounds that it was broken prior to purchasing the warranty. I recently purchased a C55 and was able to program the homelink without issue. I looked in the user manual for both cars and realized that the instructions were identical, then concluded the homelink in the E500 was broken after trying to program it. Since I told them this, they want to deny the claim? What did I pay $3300 for?????"
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Joined: Jan 2007
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From: Sydney, Australia
190D 2.5 (x2), 190E 2.6, W202 C240,W202 C43 (C55), W210 E55, W212 E250CDI
The problem requiring lube to be added to the flywheel teeth is for a VERY specific problem.
If your starter engauges, cranks then disengages (by itself, without starting) then you require the flywheel lube, no other reason. The TSB issue by MB on this issue wasn't translated from german very well which many dealers dont understand the exact reason they need to apply the lube to the ring gear.
Any other fault requires normal diagnostic preceedures (faulty starter, relays, etc).
If your starter engauges, cranks then disengages (by itself, without starting) then you require the flywheel lube, no other reason. The TSB issue by MB on this issue wasn't translated from german very well which many dealers dont understand the exact reason they need to apply the lube to the ring gear.
Any other fault requires normal diagnostic preceedures (faulty starter, relays, etc).
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,254
Likes: 15
From: Louisiana
03 E500 and Corvette
The problem requiring lube to be added to the flywheel teeth is for a VERY specific problem.
If your starter engauges, cranks then disengages (by itself, without starting) then you require the flywheel lube, no other reason. The TSB issue by MB on this issue wasn't translated from german very well which many dealers dont understand the exact reason they need to apply the lube to the ring gear.
Any other fault requires normal diagnostic preceedures (faulty starter, relays, etc).
If your starter engauges, cranks then disengages (by itself, without starting) then you require the flywheel lube, no other reason. The TSB issue by MB on this issue wasn't translated from german very well which many dealers dont understand the exact reason they need to apply the lube to the ring gear.
Any other fault requires normal diagnostic preceedures (faulty starter, relays, etc).
NEVER have I heard of required to lube the flywheel and starter drive as a maintenance requirment. (This doesn't mean it didn't happen) I agree that if you want to slop grease or squirt oil on the flywheel maybe some of it will stay when the rpm tops 5000 but given most will sling off inside the bellhousing and into the starter drive opening but at least 1 molecule thickness will remain. This seems like extremely poor engineering for MB if this is the case.
Some of the reasons for needing lube might be:
1) The rockwell hardness on the steel when the ring gear was shrunk on to the flywheel doesn't have the correct steel content and was defective at manufacture and gobbing lube on the flywheel is the way they hide it.
2) The fit of the starter drive into the flywheel were made out of spec.
3) The flywheel teeth machined incorrectly or not having a taper on the input edge for proper engagement.
4) Incorrect alignment of the starter axis to the engine centerline due to improper manufacture of the machine surfaces. This would result in a non-parallel movement of the starter drive gear and result in binding.
The flywheel gear teeth are made harder than the starter drive so the teeth aren't damaged and minimize wear from starting.
If this is necessary to gob,, spray lube on the flywheel for MB to have the starter work,, next time I think I would buy Lexus.
Last edited by vettdvr; May 10, 2008 at 09:07 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,152
Likes: 29
From: Sydney, Australia
190D 2.5 (x2), 190E 2.6, W202 C240,W202 C43 (C55), W210 E55, W212 E250CDI
Actually the only reason it needed lube was because during the starting, when the starter engages to the flywheel ring gear, there is a voltage spike/interferance which causes the crank angle sensor to see the engine turning at over 1000rpm (usually the tacho spikes to 2k rpm) which the engine control units sees as reson to disengage the starter. Since the engine wasn't actually cranking for long enough it doesn't start.
This is the only reason MB require lube to be added to the flywheel, and it is a special lubricant so as to resist coming off at high rpm.
If any dealer tells you that it's for anything other than this fault then they don't understand the tech bulliten.
This was a more common fault back when the M112 and M113 engines were new. I've only has to do this on 1 car in the last 2 yrs, a E430 (1998 model).
This is the only reason MB require lube to be added to the flywheel, and it is a special lubricant so as to resist coming off at high rpm.
If any dealer tells you that it's for anything other than this fault then they don't understand the tech bulliten.
This was a more common fault back when the M112 and M113 engines were new. I've only has to do this on 1 car in the last 2 yrs, a E430 (1998 model).
Last edited by Ausmbtech; May 10, 2008 at 08:36 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,254
Likes: 15
From: Louisiana
03 E500 and Corvette
Actually the only reason it needed lube was because during the starting, when the starter engages to the flywheel ring gear, there is a voltage spike/interferance which causes the crank angle sensor to see the engine turning at over 1000rpm (usually the tacho spikes to 2k rpm) which the engine control units sees as reson to disengage the starter. Since the engine wasn't actually cranking for long enough it doesn't start.
This is the only reason MB require lube to be added to the flywheel, and it is a special lubricant so as to resist coming off at high rpm.
If any dealer tells you that it's for anything other than this fault then they don't understand the tech bulliten.
This was a more common fault back when the M112 and M113 engines were new. I've only has to do this on 1 car in the last 2 yrs, a E430 (1998 model).
This is the only reason MB require lube to be added to the flywheel, and it is a special lubricant so as to resist coming off at high rpm.
If any dealer tells you that it's for anything other than this fault then they don't understand the tech bulliten.
This was a more common fault back when the M112 and M113 engines were new. I've only has to do this on 1 car in the last 2 yrs, a E430 (1998 model).
Therefore there is no real reason the aftermarket warranty should not warranty this problem.
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Joined: Nov 2007
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99 CLK430
No lubrication should ever be required, the majority of the low mileage for their age cars that I run into are the r230 SL's, 03's and 04's with 3-5k on them are not uncommon. I have yet to see one that has a sticking starter. Try to get the dealership to tell the extended warrenty company that the starter fried out on them instead.
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Super Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 508
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From: california high desert
2003 S500, 03 C240, 03 E320, 03 tahoe
i agree with epmills
you have to get the dealer to negotiate with the warranty rep.who ever phoned in the authorization totally f'ed up .there are definitly disqualifying terminology that determines a claim denial.id say someone is thinking this was caused by neglect.somewhere there is a secratary with poor phone skills that created your nightmare.i have to believe that this will work out,its only a starter!you should call the provider yourself and explain that the claim is not being interpreted correctly.
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