How many Teeth are on the crankshaft wheel?
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Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 342
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From: So.Cal
98 E430
How many Teeth are on the crankshaft wheel?
I can't find this information anywhere, how many Teeth are on the crackshaft pick-up wheel on a M113?? I know there are 2 missing teeth to indicate cylinder 1 TDC, but I need the complete teeth count, can someone help?
The illustration is the peice of info I need. L5 is the crankshaft position sensor, it picks up signal from the beginning and ending of the teeth from the wheel.
Thanks
The illustration is the peice of info I need. L5 is the crankshaft position sensor, it picks up signal from the beginning and ending of the teeth from the wheel.
Thanks
Last edited by Turbo][; Apr 18, 2003 at 05:09 PM.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 342
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From: So.Cal
98 E430
it's not directly related to changing the timing..however this information is needed to know the position of the crankshaft as well as the camshaft.
Actually the camsshaft has a hall sensor. Both signal can be measured with an oscilloscope, the pattern will repeat. problem is I don't have access to an oscilloscope.
With this information, you can trick the ECU.
Actually the camsshaft has a hall sensor. Both signal can be measured with an oscilloscope, the pattern will repeat. problem is I don't have access to an oscilloscope.
With this information, you can trick the ECU.
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 79
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From: Lancaster , PA
'03 C230K
Totally wrong way to get more performance. You look at that thing the wrong way and you wont even get that thing started.
try the IAT it will advance timing and increace fuel delivery.
2003 230k magma c5 c7 6spd.
try the IAT it will advance timing and increace fuel delivery.
2003 230k magma c5 c7 6spd.
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Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 342
Likes: 0
From: So.Cal
98 E430
haha..trust me I know what I am doing. My RX-7 had the same thing, and we put in a Motec fuel/ign management system in there.
All cars with ECU will have some sort of pick-up device for crank position or cam position. Either from the flywheel or from the distributor or any other other means. This is how the ECU to determine when to fire.
Your IAT(Intake Air Temp) will work too, as it trick the ECU on the fuel map. However since my modification will eventually be some sort of FI application, I need to be able to control fuel and ignition.
Here is a picture displaying what the ECU needs to read from different output sensors(this diagram is based on ignition) There are other sensors for the fuel map
A16 Knock sensors
B2/5 Hot film mass air flow sensor
B6/1 Camshaft Hall sensor
B11/4 Coolant temperature sensor
B17 Intake air temperature sensor (on engine 104, 111, 112, 113 integrated in hot film mass air flow sensor)
B37 Pedal value sensor
K40 Relay module, model 170, 210 up to 2/97
K40/4 Fuse and relay module, model 202, 208, model 163 designation F1
L5 Crankshaft position sensor
M16/1 Electronic accelerator EA/CC/ISC actuator
N3/10 ME-SFI control module
N15/3 ETC control module
N16/1 Base module, model 129, 140
N47-1 ASR control module
N47-5 ESP control module
N54 RCL control module
T1/1 Ignition coils
Engine 104, 111: one twin-spark ignition coil for two cylinders
Engine 119, 120: one igniton coil for each cylinder
Engine 112, 113: one double ignition coil for each cylinder
R4 Spark plugs
X11/4 Data link connector
CAN Databus (Controller Area Network)
All cars with ECU will have some sort of pick-up device for crank position or cam position. Either from the flywheel or from the distributor or any other other means. This is how the ECU to determine when to fire.
Your IAT(Intake Air Temp) will work too, as it trick the ECU on the fuel map. However since my modification will eventually be some sort of FI application, I need to be able to control fuel and ignition.
Here is a picture displaying what the ECU needs to read from different output sensors(this diagram is based on ignition) There are other sensors for the fuel map
A16 Knock sensors
B2/5 Hot film mass air flow sensor
B6/1 Camshaft Hall sensor
B11/4 Coolant temperature sensor
B17 Intake air temperature sensor (on engine 104, 111, 112, 113 integrated in hot film mass air flow sensor)
B37 Pedal value sensor
K40 Relay module, model 170, 210 up to 2/97
K40/4 Fuse and relay module, model 202, 208, model 163 designation F1
L5 Crankshaft position sensor
M16/1 Electronic accelerator EA/CC/ISC actuator
N3/10 ME-SFI control module
N15/3 ETC control module
N16/1 Base module, model 129, 140
N47-1 ASR control module
N47-5 ESP control module
N54 RCL control module
T1/1 Ignition coils
Engine 104, 111: one twin-spark ignition coil for two cylinders
Engine 119, 120: one igniton coil for each cylinder
Engine 112, 113: one double ignition coil for each cylinder
R4 Spark plugs
X11/4 Data link connector
CAN Databus (Controller Area Network)
Last edited by Turbo][; Apr 19, 2003 at 07:49 PM.
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Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 392
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From: Belgium
Originally posted by 230KBenz
all the cam sensor does is determine which TDC is up for #1 cylender, mainly for getting the engine started.
2003 230k magma c5 c7 6spd.
all the cam sensor does is determine which TDC is up for #1 cylender, mainly for getting the engine started.
2003 230k magma c5 c7 6spd.
This is the main reason.
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
From: Lancaster , PA
'03 C230K
Once the engine is running the ECU uses the crank sensor plus other calculations to make ajustments for each cylender. The cam sensor keeps the system from sending fuel to a cylender thats on TDC compression while the engine is still cranking.
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
From: Lancaster , PA
'03 C230K
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Turbo][
[B]haha..trust me I know what I am doing. My RX-7 had the same thing, and we put in a Motec fuel/ign management system in there.
Your IAT(Intake Air Temp) will work too, as it trick the ECU on the fuel map. However since my modification will eventually be some sort of FI application, I need to be able to control fuel and ignition.
Im not sure if a RX-7 is to similar to a new benz. I do know that on my new kompressor, the ignition timing is retarded for intake charge temps over 35c , so i kinda got a 2 for 1 deal by keeping the IAT sensor from reading over 35. I found that at idle the charge temp was 45c and and after i drove it around it only got hotter. I could look to see how that works for your motor, unless you already found out.
[B]haha..trust me I know what I am doing. My RX-7 had the same thing, and we put in a Motec fuel/ign management system in there.
Your IAT(Intake Air Temp) will work too, as it trick the ECU on the fuel map. However since my modification will eventually be some sort of FI application, I need to be able to control fuel and ignition.
Im not sure if a RX-7 is to similar to a new benz. I do know that on my new kompressor, the ignition timing is retarded for intake charge temps over 35c , so i kinda got a 2 for 1 deal by keeping the IAT sensor from reading over 35. I found that at idle the charge temp was 45c and and after i drove it around it only got hotter. I could look to see how that works for your motor, unless you already found out.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 342
Likes: 0
From: So.Cal
98 E430
Thanks, but I don't need those information. Just need to know how many teeth are on that flywheel. The # of teeth is divided in to 360(the full rotation of the flywheel) to determine the amount of times it fired the ignition.
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 571
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well remove the starter and count them! remove the plugs, place a wrench on the crank pulley bolt and turn the engine over. use a black magic marker so you know where you started.
also the sensors can be read with a mutimeter. they will give you an ac current. as for the whole timing thing with these sensors, is all they do is give a reference mark, i.e. engine speed, cam position etc. the timing, and duty cycle of the injectors is changed by taking many different readings from many inputs and making a calculation based on those constantly changing inputs. if you are wondering when the engine fires, you will need to find the timing trigger. if the car is a 4 cylinder it will have 4 triggers, a 6 will have 6 and so on. most likely this is either machined into the cam, or is machined into the cam timing gear on the crankshaft side. i guess you could machine it into the flywheel if you had to, ive just never seen this myself. also if the trigger was attached to the flywheel then you would need to make sure the flywheel was always relocated to the correct position should you need to move it. in my opinion this would leave to much room for possible reinstallation error. i dont think mb would do this but i could be wrong. this is my first mb and ive never had one apart b4 so it is a possiblity.
also the sensors can be read with a mutimeter. they will give you an ac current. as for the whole timing thing with these sensors, is all they do is give a reference mark, i.e. engine speed, cam position etc. the timing, and duty cycle of the injectors is changed by taking many different readings from many inputs and making a calculation based on those constantly changing inputs. if you are wondering when the engine fires, you will need to find the timing trigger. if the car is a 4 cylinder it will have 4 triggers, a 6 will have 6 and so on. most likely this is either machined into the cam, or is machined into the cam timing gear on the crankshaft side. i guess you could machine it into the flywheel if you had to, ive just never seen this myself. also if the trigger was attached to the flywheel then you would need to make sure the flywheel was always relocated to the correct position should you need to move it. in my opinion this would leave to much room for possible reinstallation error. i dont think mb would do this but i could be wrong. this is my first mb and ive never had one apart b4 so it is a possiblity.
Last edited by levelr123g; Apr 21, 2003 at 02:53 AM.
Newbie
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teeth
turbo
I believe there is 34 teeth on the flywheel for the crank sensor
this is one tooth for every 10 degrees -2 teeth for top dead centre.
you have gained my interest as to what you will do with these specifications ? let me know...
I believe there is 34 teeth on the flywheel for the crank sensor
this is one tooth for every 10 degrees -2 teeth for top dead centre.
you have gained my interest as to what you will do with these specifications ? let me know...
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 342
Likes: 0
From: So.Cal
98 E430
Originally posted by speedybenz
So based your information a C43, engine code 113.944 has the intake air temp sensor built into the MAS?
Jeff
So based your information a C43, engine code 113.944 has the intake air temp sensor built into the MAS?
Jeff
