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As above , old thread , old thinking .
The owners handbook remains frozen in time whilst oil specs get superceded .
Better oils have higher group basestocks , a better additive package with more friction modifiers and a LongLife oil that will contain more polar heads with hydrocarbon tails , lol .
Early MB oil specs performance perameters are laughable and I would only use as a flush if some were spare to hand .
You're gonna get flamed, unfortunately, as this is always a passionate topic. You should have sweetened the pot and added draining vs. sucking method of changing the oil!!!
Great thread, but I have to add an exception to the highlighted portion.
It should read "On stock (non-modified) engines...."
Anyone that has added performance upgrades such as ECU tunes, supercharger pulley upgrades, etc..., need to change their oil more often than what the FSS triggers.
I'm running over +100hp and +100tq over the stock engine numbers, on my SL600. I change my oil with Mobil-1 0-40 every 5K miles or before every track event, whichever comes first. I also get a Blackstone Labs report every oil change as well, and it looks like my engine is still pristine inside.
This thread relates to engine oil only, correct? I did not see transmission oil information.
Is is there a similar thread that is a compendium for transmission oils? There are a number of oils and transmissions, and to my understanding they are not universally interchangeable.
Hello, few days ago I left car in service to change oil and filters (I want 5w30 mobil1). When I come back they put mobil1 5w30 but 5 liters of Ford Specification and 1.5 liters of correct mercedes 291.xx specification
Car is w203 220cdi 2006 year
will that 5 liters of ford specification cause a problem? Can I drive 10k km and change it ?
All we do is optimize for seasons and service interval.
That being said, Mobil 1 5w-30 is one of the last oil's I'd use....maybe in arctic conditions with a turbo, if I couldn't find anything else.
Part of the problem is when people rely on a shop to do their change, they are at their mercy, and when people rely on the single grade recommendation of 0w-40, as MANDATED by EPA/CAFE MPG test. The mfg must recommend the same oil used in the test.
0w-40 is great, but it can burn off a little fast. It's expensive so people try to get their money's worth and run it too long.
Best bet is month changes of an oil that lets you go the anticipated miles. imo, Maxlife 5w-30 for winter, 10w-40 for summer, or a blend of the two.
God help some of these owners, so confused!
E Coupe C207, ML W166, ML W164, Sprinter 1500/144, W111 SB220 Fintail(s), A5 chassis Beetle 5+5
Originally Posted by Audi Junkie
This OP is a collection of the worst oil advice I've ever seen.
Lots of uninformed tripe from someone not knowledgeable to pick out their own oil, yet alone give advice to others.
Q: I live in Alaska/Sahara. Should I use a different weight? A: No. 0W40 is a multiweight oil. That means when cold, it flows like a 0W. This is the "coldest" oil weight available, and means that even in Alaska, it will still flow and won't gum up. The 40 is the operating temperature weight, and basically means the oil is not too thin and not too thick when the car is warmed up. Your engine, when warmed up, runs at 80 C (176 F). Whether you live in Alaska or Sahara, the engine runs at this temperature. So the temperature, season, and location is irrelevant. You shouldn't change your oil weight unless you live somewhere that's hotter than 176 F (you'd be dead).
Q: Should I use specialty oil (Amsoil, Redline, etc.)? A: No. If the oil is not recommended by Mercedes and doesn't meet specifications, why chance it? Mobil 1 0W40 is cheaper than most specialty oils, is created and backed by the largest company in the US (Exxon Mobil has the largest market cap of any US company), is recommended by top manufacturers (MB, Porsche, etc.), and is an all around good oil.
Q: Can I use something "similar," like 5W30? A: No. First, 0W40 is the correct weight. It provides better cold and hot protection than 5W30 or 10W30. In other words, it supports a wider range of temperatures than other common oils, which is part of why it's "better."
Second, just because the numbers of the weights are close, doesn't mean the oils are similar. The temperature ranges are fairly close, but oil properties are also largely determined by the additive package, which includes detergents, friction modifiers, etc. Two oils with the same or similar weight may provide totally different protection, in terms of lifespan (miles and age), lubrication, and cleaning because they have different additive packages.
Does OP think people in the MidEast use 0w-40? I would not....more like 15w-40.
"Specialty" oils are great products. Just because they don't submit for approval, and pay Mercedes a big fat royalty, has no bearing on how well their products work. Knowing how the approval system works is a big help, something to OP has no clue about. lol, look at an oil like Rotella 5w-40. PLEASE EXPLAIN how it wouldn't work perfectly or meet approval if it was submitted. I am waiting.
Does the OP even understand the "W" rating system??? What is the purpose of 0w oil in warm climates? How is it different than 5w-40, 10w-40 or 15w-40??? It's not any different.
Frankly, people use thin API 5w-30 and then get a lab report on wear and oil condition....it works fine. That's because Euro specs leave a big buffer for driving flat out on the Autobahn for hours at a clip. So, it's thicker than it needs to be for American driving....fact.
I read these threads and feel sorry for people looking at them for advice, and sorry for the writers without the tech background to understand what they are talking about.
Want to use 0w-40 up to 10k miles? Great. Want a 5w-40 truck oil instead to clean out an old engine, even better. Want to use dino oil in the car you drive 2000 miles a year? Fantastic.
E Coupe C207, ML W166, ML W164, Sprinter 1500/144, W111 SB220 Fintail(s), A5 chassis Beetle 5+5
Originally Posted by ohlord
never use 0w30 or any 30 wt in an AMG engine.
Keep an eye on sales at oreilys etc they just had a $4.99 a qt sale ended late Jan.
Great little write up
True, unless you are above the Arctic Circle.
There actually are thicker Euro 30 weights that meet the Euro HT/HS spec of > 3.5cP
Pennzoil Euro L is a great one in the US market. 30 weight truck oil too, like Rotella or Delo 10w-30
E Coupe C207, ML W166, ML W164, Sprinter 1500/144, W111 SB220 Fintail(s), A5 chassis Beetle 5+5
Originally Posted by saintz
I had a specific answer to this in the write up. It does not matter where you live or the temperature. You should still use the recommended oil and weight. Check the manual to find what that is for your model/year.
lol, it's obvious that your experience is very limited in this department. Please stop giving advice until you understand what you are talking about.
E Coupe C207, ML W166, ML W164, Sprinter 1500/144, W111 SB220 Fintail(s), A5 chassis Beetle 5+5
Originally Posted by mike278
This is a good post with some good info, however not all of it is accurate. The oil spec sheet that your vehicle requires is determined by which engine you have. Read your maintenance manual, determine your engine type (272,273, 278, 642, etc...) and look at the sheet number called for. A simple google search will turn up the MB sheet for your vehicle. It will list all the approved oils for that engine. The assumption that only 0w-40 will work is simply not true. There are a range of oils from various manufacturers on sheet 229.5 that range from 0w-30, 0w40, 5w30, to 5w-40. Not picking nits or trying to flame an informative post, just want to get the right info out there.
Thank you. 229.5 is simply the long life spec for people who choose to service their engine infrequently. If you WANT/NEED to go 10k between changes (exotics fall into this category) then 229.5 is for you.
"Standard Oil" OR 229.5 ...? Do we see this with our own eyes? Attachment 439717
Guys who DIY oil don't want/need 10k intervals....they are free to use a quality oil that suits their chosen change interval. 229.3 is synthetic oil that can go 10k anyway, with a huge 8q sump. It's the equivalent of VW 502, which is as common as dirt. In Europe, 10w-40 blends meet this spec because the MARKETING of the spec oil is more cost-effective than in the USA.
"For Mercedes service"... &#]https://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-657-10w40-engine-oil.aspx#Filter=[EntityIDs=@(980)@]&#
Lots of uninformed tripe from someone not knowledgeable to pick out their own oil, yet alone give advice to others.
Q: I live in Alaska/Sahara. Should I use a different weight? A: No. 0W40 is a multiweight oil. That means when cold, it flows like a 0W. This is the "coldest" oil weight available, and means that even in Alaska, it will still flow and won't gum up. The 40 is the operating temperature weight, and basically means the oil is not too thin and not too thick when the car is warmed up. Your engine, when warmed up, runs at 80 C (176 F). Whether you live in Alaska or Sahara, the engine runs at this temperature. So the temperature, season, and location is irrelevant. You shouldn't change your oil weight unless you live somewhere that's hotter than 176 F (you'd be dead).
Q: Should I use specialty oil (Amsoil, Redline, etc.)? A: No. If the oil is not recommended by Mercedes and doesn't meet specifications, why chance it? Mobil 1 0W40 is cheaper than most specialty oils, is created and backed by the largest company in the US (Exxon Mobil has the largest market cap of any US company), is recommended by top manufacturers (MB, Porsche, etc.), and is an all around good oil.
Q: Can I use something "similar," like 5W30? A: No. First, 0W40 is the correct weight. It provides better cold and hot protection than 5W30 or 10W30. In other words, it supports a wider range of temperatures than other common oils, which is part of why it's "better."
Second, just because the numbers of the weights are close, doesn't mean the oils are similar. The temperature ranges are fairly close, but oil properties are also largely determined by the additive package, which includes detergents, friction modifiers, etc. Two oils with the same or similar weight may provide totally different protection, in terms of lifespan (miles and age), lubrication, and cleaning because they have different additive packages.
Does OP think people in the MidEast use 0w-40? I would not....more like 15w-40.
"Specialty" oils are great products. Just because they don't submit for approval, and pay Mercedes a big fat royalty, has no bearing on how well their products work. Knowing how the approval system works is a big help, something to OP has no clue about. lol, look at an oil like Rotella 5w-40. PLEASE EXPLAIN how it wouldn't work perfectly or meet approval if it was submitted. I am waiting.
Does the OP even understand the "W" rating system??? What is the purpose of 0w oil in warm climates? How is it different than 5w-40, 10w-40 or 15w-40??? It's not any different.
Frankly, people use thin API 5w-30 and then get a lab report on wear and oil condition....it works fine. That's because Euro specs leave a big buffer for driving flat out on the Autobahn for hours at a clip. So, it's thicker than it needs to be for American driving....fact.
I read these threads and feel sorry for people looking at them for advice, and sorry for the writers without the tech background to understand what they are talking about.
Want to use 0w-40 up to 10k miles? Great. Want a 5w-40 truck oil instead to clean out an old engine, even better. Want to use dino oil in the car you drive 2000 miles a year? Fantastic.
I've used 5-40, T6 Rotella in 3 Benz's.without issue. 01'S500 to 160k, 06'CL500 to 150k and both motors didn't smoke or use oil when sold. Currently have it in my 07' SL550 with only 50k......
E Coupe C207, ML W166, ML W164, Sprinter 1500/144, W111 SB220 Fintail(s), A5 chassis Beetle 5+5
I'm not re-reading the thread, excuse me if I am repeating myself. A single grade of oil is ok for most people and situations. I often recommend 0w-40 for non-Euro vehicles.
BUT- ask yourself.... is the same oil ideal for old ladies in Wisconsin winters driving her old M112 two miles to church the best oil for an AMG in +100f temps all day on the track???
Bear in mind, some people think Mobil 1 0w-40 isn't the greatest oil on Earth. Many performance driver use 50 weight exclusively....and do UOAs.
When your oil pressure is shot in the middle of a track day is too late to think about it.
E Coupe C207, ML W166, ML W164, Sprinter 1500/144, W111 SB220 Fintail(s), A5 chassis Beetle 5+5
Q: Can I use something "similar," like 5W30? A: No. First, 0W40 is the correct weight. It provides better cold and hot protection than 5W30 or 10W30. In other words, it supports a wider range of temperatures than other common oils, which is part of why it's "better."
Actually...5w-30 is thinner in cold than 0w-40
German Syntec 0w-30 is the same curve as 0w-40, trust me....I don't feel like generating a new graph.
The point is that there are approved 5w-30s, like PZ Euro L. I realize the OPs info might be dated, and don't hold it against them.
E Coupe C207, ML W166, ML W164, Sprinter 1500/144, W111 SB220 Fintail(s), A5 chassis Beetle 5+5
*Q: I live in Alaska/Sahara. Should I use a different weight?* A: No. 0W40 is a multiweight oil. That means when cold, it flows like a 0W. This is the "coldest" oil weight available, and means that even in Alaska, it will still flow and won't gum up.
In fact, people in arctic conditions use MUCH thinner grades of oil. This is because at -20f or lower, the oil never reaches full operating temp, so it doesn't thin down to the 10 to 15 cSt range that is optimal. It could easily be 10x thicker or more if the oil is only +120f instead of the +212f the labeled visc is measured at. So a 0w-20 might be something like 20cSt at that +120f, instead of 50 to 100cSt like a 40 weight "spec" oil would be.
Remember that the starting visc in super cold is as high as 10,000 to 20,000 cSt, 2000 times thicker than operating temp!!! I like to see 5000cSt as the max visc on start-up for turbos and 10,000cSt for non-turbos. Work backwards from your cold start temps, and keep it within the range I mentioned. So yeah....15w-40 is GREAT for non-turbos above +20f or so. It's MUCH less volatile than 0w-40. It's robust, protects better and won't burn off. Run some in a hot AMG, do a UOA and get back to me. The test sequences for HD oil is very stringent, like the TFOUT test. (thin film oxidation uptake test) lol, 0w-40 is for mpg, and cold starts in certain climates, that's really it.
I'm using Quaker State 10w-40 in my CLK 500, it doesn't really get started over winter. I only put 5000 miles a year on it, so I can change every year for $20 or spend $200 on a dealer change and dump it out at 5000 miles. I have 4 MB currently....should I spend $1000 on oil changes every year? lol.
Last edited by Audi Junkie; 06-09-2021 at 06:48 PM.
E Coupe C207, ML W166, ML W164, Sprinter 1500/144, W111 SB220 Fintail(s), A5 chassis Beetle 5+5
Something like this:
I'm not tweeking the calc with other grades unless someone really wants me to. This is just for general info. https://www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/Graph.html
Input the published +40c and +100c from the PDS, product data sheet, for your chosen oil.
Recomend to "NOT USE Mobil" 1 in any car. It's not as good as they say and the results from an oils-test comparison where very poor. Failed in tests that the single old Mobil Delvac passed.
Companies do not post the stretch tests from their oils, and the reason is that they don't like comparison, they prefer to sell buy marketing not by quality.
Different model cars in their manuals specified different weight oil. Some calls for 5-30 some calls for 0-40. Normally, turbo engine must use 0-40 or 5-40. Mobile 1 "0-40 formulated for Europian cars" is Mercedes certified oil.
Recomend to "NOT USE Mobil" 1 in any car. It's not as good as they say and the results from an oils-test comparison where very poor. Failed in tests that the single old Mobil Delvac passed.
Companies do not post the stretch tests from their oils, and the reason is that they don't like comparison, they prefer to sell buy marketing not by quality.
Someone should hurry this message to a whole lot of manufacturer's engineers then as major companies like GM and Mercedes Benz, VAG, etc all have tested and endorse Mobil 1 products as their preferred oil in the engines they have designed.
Another datapoint of value - can someone cite the number of failed engines that that were caused by the use of Mobil oil products, and which those manufacturers have replaced on warranty...because their collective engineers didn't know what they were doing?
E Coupe C207, ML W166, ML W164, Sprinter 1500/144, W111 SB220 Fintail(s), A5 chassis Beetle 5+5
Originally Posted by Acta_Non_Verba
Someone should hurry this message to a whole lot of manufacturer's engineers then as major companies like GM and Mercedes Benz, VAG, etc all have tested and endorse Mobil 1 products as their preferred oil in the engines they have designed.
Another datapoint of value - can someone cite the number of failed engines that that were caused by the use of Mobil oil products, and which those manufacturers have replaced on warranty...because their collective engineers didn't know what they were doing?
No, you just don't understand the subject. Mobil has a PAID endorsement with these auto mfg. That's really all you need to know.
Someone should hurry this message to a whole lot of manufacturer's engineers then as major companies like GM and Mercedes Benz, VAG, etc all have tested and endorse Mobil 1 products as their preferred oil in the engines they have designed.
Another datapoint of value - can someone cite the number of failed engines that that were caused by the use of Mobil oil products, and which those manufacturers have replaced on warranty...because their collective engineers didn't know what they were doing?
Do you know a lot of manufactures or other companies that give in common view their faults, or their production fails?
Personally DON'T.
If you want to check a product quality, you should TEST it as the oil companies do. Ask them the ASTM tests as Falex pin an Vee block to compare the results.
Also ask them to give you the ingredients of an oil, as cleaning adds, protection adds and a lot more.They WILL NOT.
Every Oil Production Company DOES NOT MAKE THE ADDITIVES THEMSELVES, they buy them from other companies that make these for everyone that will ask for these.
The Mobil 1 -even now it's better than older- FAILED on an unofficially FalexPin & VeeBlock test from a company that compared about 20 different "High Class" oils.
01-04-2019, 04:29 AM
