In serious need of advice - Timing Damage
11-28-2012, 05:32 PM
#1
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2005 c230
In serious need of advice - Timing Damage
2005 Mercedes c230 Kompressor Sport
I was recently in an accident, where a woman backed her SUV into me while I was completely stopped. Though she was backing up, the mass of the SUV was enough to cause extensive damage to my front end (grill, bumper etc trashed). It was also enough momentum to push some of the components under the hood backwards - after I was hit, steam/smoke started pouring out from under my hood and upon immediate inspection I saw that the radiator had been punctured. It was for that reason that I had the car towed to a garage rather than driven.
To my dismay, the garage contacted me and notified me that the engine wasn't starting and that there was no compression. They suspected a timing issue, but weren't sure. It was at this time that the insurance company called me, said that their inspector determined that there was no way the impact could have caused this level of damage to the engine, and they chalked it up to "lack of maintenance" on my part and wouldn't cover it!!!
Keep in mind, the car was well-maintained for, only has ~60k miles, and was in good working condition before the accident. Regular oil changes, all that good stuff... It seems absolutely ridiculous to me that the insurance co would try to weasel out of this and screw me with the bill - any reasonable person would come to the conclusion that the accident was the cause of the damage, but they are claiming it's not related.
The garage looked for any evidence of impact that might explain the engine damage, but didn't see anything obvious. I even went as far as to have the car transported to a local MB dealership after speaking to them, as they would have the expertise and are better-equipped to work on MB engines. They did find damage to the valves and piston, confirming the likely timing issue, but so far they don't see anything obvious yet as to the direct cause. I was floored by a preliminary quote of $10-15k for a new engine + labor, and I just don't know if I could handle that...
So, I'm hoping all the collective knowledge here might be able to shed some light. To dispute the insurance co, we'd need something we can point to that shows the accident is what caused the engine damage. Does anyone have any experience w/a similar situation, where a front-end impact can somehow result in a problem with the timing to cause this sort of damage?
Sorry if this is rambling, but I'm in desperate need of some advice - I'll go back and try to edit to make it shorter
Thanks in advance!
I was recently in an accident, where a woman backed her SUV into me while I was completely stopped. Though she was backing up, the mass of the SUV was enough to cause extensive damage to my front end (grill, bumper etc trashed). It was also enough momentum to push some of the components under the hood backwards - after I was hit, steam/smoke started pouring out from under my hood and upon immediate inspection I saw that the radiator had been punctured. It was for that reason that I had the car towed to a garage rather than driven.
To my dismay, the garage contacted me and notified me that the engine wasn't starting and that there was no compression. They suspected a timing issue, but weren't sure. It was at this time that the insurance company called me, said that their inspector determined that there was no way the impact could have caused this level of damage to the engine, and they chalked it up to "lack of maintenance" on my part and wouldn't cover it!!!
Keep in mind, the car was well-maintained for, only has ~60k miles, and was in good working condition before the accident. Regular oil changes, all that good stuff... It seems absolutely ridiculous to me that the insurance co would try to weasel out of this and screw me with the bill - any reasonable person would come to the conclusion that the accident was the cause of the damage, but they are claiming it's not related.
The garage looked for any evidence of impact that might explain the engine damage, but didn't see anything obvious. I even went as far as to have the car transported to a local MB dealership after speaking to them, as they would have the expertise and are better-equipped to work on MB engines. They did find damage to the valves and piston, confirming the likely timing issue, but so far they don't see anything obvious yet as to the direct cause. I was floored by a preliminary quote of $10-15k for a new engine + labor, and I just don't know if I could handle that...
So, I'm hoping all the collective knowledge here might be able to shed some light. To dispute the insurance co, we'd need something we can point to that shows the accident is what caused the engine damage. Does anyone have any experience w/a similar situation, where a front-end impact can somehow result in a problem with the timing to cause this sort of damage?
Sorry if this is rambling, but I'm in desperate need of some advice - I'll go back and try to edit to make it shorter
Thanks in advance!
Last edited by species; 11-28-2012 at 05:52 PM. Reason: Brevity
11-28-2012, 06:12 PM
#2
sorry situation. can you show records of service, or affidavit from mechanic about condition of the car prior to accident? i'd fight it out with the insurance co. you could have a fight on your hands unless the dealer, or someone else can find proof the accident caused this.
good luck and i wish you well!!!
good luck and i wish you well!!!
11-28-2012, 06:19 PM
#3
Keep the case as simple as possible. The concern of the insurance company is they clearly believe you're trying to squeeze a new engine out of a mundane front end collision, it wouldn't be the first time for this sort of thing. They see this all the time.
The wrong approach would be to try to explain to them how the engine damage might've been caused by the accident without being an engineer. Even if you come up with a reasonable explanation you run into the butterfly effect argument, sure the accident could have caused this engine damage, but it might've also caused a tsunami in Singapore. They're just not going to be convinced by any mechanical explanation from an unqualified person they believe is trying to con them.
What you need to do is falsify their counterclaim, which is that you are lying and only minor/cosmetic damage was caused by the accident. Again you need to simplify the case as much as possible, strip it to the bare bones. What are they saying exactly?
This is what:
1. That the engine damage existed prior to the accident. They speculate this was as a result of poor vehicle maintenance by the owner. Falsify this by sending the 'company copies of your service history and maintenance receipts. Have you been keeping a logbook and receipts? Those are qualified records which prove the car was well maintained and serviced, and provide a date upon which under qualified examination the engine was in good working order.
2. That you are a liar and are attempting to defraud the insurance company. Falsify this by showing a clean criminal record, does your employment require a police check during application? Tell them if it does. You can also offer to submit a recent police check to show the 'company that you have a clean record and have never attempted to defraud anybody. Can you obtain some character references to submit? Do you play golf with President Obama, things like that can lend weight. Following these tenders, express your indignance to the 'company and suggest that if they are determined to assert and penalise for a criminal act without any evidence or judiciary procedure you will explore civil proceedings and sue for damages in addition to their contractual insurance obligations.
3. That no qualified explanation has been given as to the mechanical extent of the damage resulting from a low speed front end collision. Falsifying this has been the only strategy you've thus far presented, but the explanation can't come as heresay from you regardless of the source. It must be submitted by a qualified reference and even then will necessarily be highly argumentative. Their "expert" says it couldn't happen. Other experts may give all kinds of opinions, you'll wind up with little more than a room full of varied opinions, it's not very compelling in legal circles.
All you need here is just a piece of paper from someone qualified, willing to stake their reputation on a asserting a distinct possibility. The SUV is about a 2-ton car? Have a physicist tell you how much inertia a 3mph collision could wield. Show a record of the extent of the physical damage. Have a mechanic/engineer speculate on paper whether the radiator could have pushed the fan onto the timing case, if this could interfere with the valve timing/crank rotation relationship and thus cause the valve/piston damage, and what period of engine operation this would take (milliseconds actually).
At any rate you want the speculative mechanical argument only as support for the falsification of all other insurance company contentions about the case, being the most argumentative aspect. You want it curt, simple and on paper, but it needs the weight of a proven service/maintenance record, a record that the car was in good working order prior to the collision and mechanically damaged immediately following, and character references such that you flatly challenge their claim that you are attempting fraud.
The wrong approach would be to try to explain to them how the engine damage might've been caused by the accident without being an engineer. Even if you come up with a reasonable explanation you run into the butterfly effect argument, sure the accident could have caused this engine damage, but it might've also caused a tsunami in Singapore. They're just not going to be convinced by any mechanical explanation from an unqualified person they believe is trying to con them.
What you need to do is falsify their counterclaim, which is that you are lying and only minor/cosmetic damage was caused by the accident. Again you need to simplify the case as much as possible, strip it to the bare bones. What are they saying exactly?
This is what:
1. That the engine damage existed prior to the accident. They speculate this was as a result of poor vehicle maintenance by the owner. Falsify this by sending the 'company copies of your service history and maintenance receipts. Have you been keeping a logbook and receipts? Those are qualified records which prove the car was well maintained and serviced, and provide a date upon which under qualified examination the engine was in good working order.
2. That you are a liar and are attempting to defraud the insurance company. Falsify this by showing a clean criminal record, does your employment require a police check during application? Tell them if it does. You can also offer to submit a recent police check to show the 'company that you have a clean record and have never attempted to defraud anybody. Can you obtain some character references to submit? Do you play golf with President Obama, things like that can lend weight. Following these tenders, express your indignance to the 'company and suggest that if they are determined to assert and penalise for a criminal act without any evidence or judiciary procedure you will explore civil proceedings and sue for damages in addition to their contractual insurance obligations.
3. That no qualified explanation has been given as to the mechanical extent of the damage resulting from a low speed front end collision. Falsifying this has been the only strategy you've thus far presented, but the explanation can't come as heresay from you regardless of the source. It must be submitted by a qualified reference and even then will necessarily be highly argumentative. Their "expert" says it couldn't happen. Other experts may give all kinds of opinions, you'll wind up with little more than a room full of varied opinions, it's not very compelling in legal circles.
All you need here is just a piece of paper from someone qualified, willing to stake their reputation on a asserting a distinct possibility. The SUV is about a 2-ton car? Have a physicist tell you how much inertia a 3mph collision could wield. Show a record of the extent of the physical damage. Have a mechanic/engineer speculate on paper whether the radiator could have pushed the fan onto the timing case, if this could interfere with the valve timing/crank rotation relationship and thus cause the valve/piston damage, and what period of engine operation this would take (milliseconds actually).
At any rate you want the speculative mechanical argument only as support for the falsification of all other insurance company contentions about the case, being the most argumentative aspect. You want it curt, simple and on paper, but it needs the weight of a proven service/maintenance record, a record that the car was in good working order prior to the collision and mechanically damaged immediately following, and character references such that you flatly challenge their claim that you are attempting fraud.
11-28-2012, 06:20 PM
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2005 c230
Just heard from the dealership, they said it appears the timing tensioner stopped working/seized at the time of the accident, but can't point to a cause related to the accident that would cause this to fail...
11-28-2012, 06:22 PM
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Wow, thanks for the input! Your reply appeared as the same time as mine above, and it makes sense.
12-11-2012, 10:03 PM
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SL55 AMG
Im no mechanic, but if something forced the crank pulley to stop spinning on impact, i would think it possible that the woodruff key could have sheered which also supports the internal timing chain which could possibly cause predetination, etc, no?
