awiner

MBtech, just wanted to pick your brain. What do you "Personally" feel about the FSS system ? 10,000 miles bwetween changes ? I'm not sold. Granted I think that Mobil 1 Synthetic can hold up under 10,000 miles, however, I see the weak link in the system being the small little oil filter that MB uses. I don't buy that the small oil filter will properly be able to filter for 10,000 miles.. What is your take on this ?

As for myself, I dropped my oil and changed the filter at 1,500 miles and will change the oil and filter myself every 4,000 miles. I will take my car to the dealer for the FSS-A service and B-Service when called for by the FSS system and get a free change on them at that time.


Secondly, whati s your take on the "Suction" top-side removal of oil vs. the traditional gravity drain through the oil pan's plug ? Pro's -- Con's ??

Richard

You US guys seem to particularly enjoy changing Oil - here in Europe you hardly every hear of anyone doing engine oil changes outside of the approx 12k service intervals on modern cars.

When I had a "old tech" engine about 10 years ago (in Fords, Mini etc), id change the oil more often, but personally I beleive that (a) oil quality (b) engine metal quality (c) engine part tolerences are now all so good that 12k miles is just no issue, and the initial oil change isnt needed because the tolerences are just *so* accurate theres no significant wear in the first 1500 miles.

Now, if I look at the engines in things like Range Rover (ie very old design) etc i'd be changing the oil dead on 6k miles, but having been to the German MB engine plant (the V6/V8 plant) and seen how they make those engines I'd be quite happy if the thing told me it didnt need an oil change for 15k

The MBSS service system takes into account speed, temperatures, warm up times [actual] etc to calculate the service interval aswell, so if you do thrash your engine when its stone cold it will tell you to change the oil more often etc

awiner

Richard, I have noticed that most Europeans do have a different philosphy on oil change intervals. It's interesting to get eveyones opinon on this subject.

Here in the U.S. we have been conditioned to change oil every 3,000 miles... At least in the dino-oil days....

mbtech208

This is a very controversial topic. First, let me say that I had a friend in high school with a 1981 Toyota Tercel. His Tercel's owner's manual said that the recommended oil change interval was 10,000 miles. Mind you, this car is now 20 years old, with an ancient motor. 10,000 mile intervals are nothing new. Then again, Toyotas could practically run with molten lava in the crankcase, but that's another topic. Americans have been brain-washed for years with the 3 month/3000 mile oil change intervals. While this is insurance, it's not cheap insurance, and it's really a waste of oil. My Honda's oil has been changed every 7500 miles since new, and it has over 1/3 million miles on it.
Now Mercedes' engines. They used to be 7500 miles between changes, like practically everyone else. Then came the FSS with it's 10,000 minimum/20,000 maximum intervals. Originally, the first 112 motors with this (ML320, E320, CLK320, C280) were destroying themselves due to this long interval. Cylinder walls were scoring, rings were breaking apart. These engines were burning oil like a Kuwait oil field. Rather than mess with the idea of FSS, which is not a bad idea, Mercedes changed oil recommendations. This just happened early this year. For '98-'99 vehicles, Mercedes recommends synthetic oil. For 2000 and newer vehicles, it's included at no extra charge with your A and B services. It goes like this. If you have, say, a '98 E320 and you bring it in for an A-service, your service writer will try to sell you synthetic oil rather than conventional oil. It's your choice. But keep in mind that these engines love synthetic, they even seem to run quieter and smoother with it. If you have a 2000 E320, your A-service is free, so synthetic is used without you even asking for it. Even the filters hold up better with synthetic. When I do an A or B service on a car that has just gone 12,000 miles on conventional oil, the filter crumbles as soon as I touch it. When I do a service on a car that has gone 12,000 miles on synthetic, the filter is brown, obviously, but it's still as pliable as it was when new. Bottom line: with synthetic oil, FSS is not only reliable and accurate, but it keeps maintenance costs down by getting the most mileage out of synthetic oil.
About the suction drain vs. gravity drain. Adam, I was wondering about it too, because we use suction drains at my dealership. As an experiment earlier this year, I used the suction device (we call it "Monica") on an S430 to drain the oil. THEN, I put the car up in the air and took the drain plug out to see how much oil Monica couldn't suck up. A few drops came out, that's it. I trust suction devices now to get all the oil out. Plus in the long run it'll save the threads on your oil pan too. Removing and reinstalling the drain plug for years and years eventually strips the threads, and you'll need a new oil pan sooner or later. And wow, do my fingers hurt from all this typing.

-Dave

awiner

Dave, thanks for the reply ! I knew a Monica once that probably could.... Well we will leave that discussion for another time. I'm happy to hear however that the "Monica" at your service dept. sucked up all but a couple drops. This re-enforces my stand that the top side suction method is a good one!

What do you think about the small MB oil filter and it's ability to filter effectly for 10,000+ miles ?

Also, what type of Synthetic does your dealerhip use ? Mobil 1 ? And what weight ?

mbtech208

We use Mobil 1 0W-40 Synthetic. The filter for the C240 V6 is exactly the same filter as the one used in your CL55. So yeah, I think it is a tad small, but it does seem to do a good job of cleaning the oil even for 15-20,000 miles (as long as it's synthetic), and oil pressure stays nice and high. So who am I to argue?

Randy B

I've been sold on the synthetic oil for about the last twelve years. Met a Mobil chemist at the Daytona Speedway back then, and he convinced me over the next three weeks why it makes a difference, and sent me samples to prove it. The printouts alone were full proof for me to spend the extra money. I personally saw cooler run temps in my Turbo Mitsubishi, and no clogging of the oil return lines on that turbo. That alone was worth a bunch of money in savings. I then tried the synthetic ATF, and what a difference that made on the shifts, noise, and color of the internals after full use for many thousaonds of miles. Ask a tech what a sythetic oiled engine and or transmission looks like inside compared to a conventional oil, and they will simply tell you clean, and almost if not the same color metal that was installed in the car when it was new. That means no laquering of the camshafts, rockers, pushrods, valves, pistons, crankshaft, and all of those oh too important oil caverns throughout an engine of the Benz's caliber. If you intend to keep one of these cars, and or use it hard, I would not think twice about the expense. If you lease them, then what does it matter, you get rid of the car before the warranty ends anyway.

awiner

That brings up yet another question. What type of oil does Mercedes use in these "Life Fill" transmissions ? Synthetic ?

mbtech208

It's synthetic oil, it comes in a gray bottle with a Mercedes-benz part number, and it's about 10 bucks a quart. And I have TONS of the stuff in my garage, if you need any

awiner

Ug....





How about the ABC oil ? Is it too synthetic ? Is every oil used in the cars today synthetic ? If so, that's great !

Randy B

The Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF is about $6.90 a quart, and meets the latest Mercon V standards. I just used it in the first trns and transfer case change in my 99 Ford Expedition 4X4. Will use it in the E 430 soon.

JohnN

MBTech-

You have any idea what oil engines get at the factory?

I'd like to change the oil on my 2002 ML320 when I hit 1000 miles - but I'd like to do it with the same oil they threw in at the factory. I know they recommend Mobil-1 0W-40 - but I'm curious as to whether or not this is what it came with.

Any idea?

Thanks,
-J