chesskidd

Hello guys,

This is indeed a followup from my months ago's thread https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...threadid=66878
I just recently got the time to pull my '97 C280 to the local dealer for fixing.
Today they told me it's costing 1100 for my coolant leaking's fix.
At first I coudln't believe the cost of it shouldn't ended up a thousand dollar grasp,
Here is what they listed, water pump replacement due to the leak, a vague point here, cuz they couldn't confirm the leak coming from water pump which itself is cracked or it's simply because of the hose connected to it, the part is around 320 bucks for a brand new one, (a rebuilt will be 220), needed 5.2 hours labors job.
Other various replacement, such as thermalstat, belt, ...etc, another 158 bucks, ok that one I can understand.
I'm not an auto expert or guru, but to my understanding and I've checked the price of water pump else where, it's around 150~160 for a new stock, so what is it with the dealer charging 320, plus the 5.2 hours labor? I could understand probably most of the time needed to spent on taking out the engine, and replacing the pump, but 5.2 hours... , the total cost ended up with a thousand over just for the coolant fixing!!? I'm still lost here, cuz it seems like a ripoff to me.

So what do you guys think? And any suggestion what I can do?

Thanks.

miroj

a) coolant is cheap

b) buy all the parts and find someone to do it

c) buy all the parts and do it yourself.

d) just pay it and do nothing else

e) sell the car

GDawgC220

parts are cheap to get...but MB labor is another story. Most dealers charge anywhere between $90-$100+ / hour for labor

Sometimes they do things a little slower to make sure things are done right or its just a labor intense job.

example, my headgasket on my '94 c220 took 11 hours to do...$1000 just in labor right there. the part was $120

miroj

Last time I looked there was no law against providing OEM parts and shopping around for the best dealer. It works for me.

GDawgC220

I did shop around...garage and independents were charging same price...give or take a few bux. I got along with my SA pretty well at the dealer (b4 he left) and gave me a price break on that stuff, took off some labor when i went to pick up the car and stuff.

miroj

The labour rate might be the same but I would be inclined to think that some people can do it in less time and still do a great job.

My brake pad install went from 1.5 hours to 0.5 hours. The irony is that one dealer bid lower against himself.

GDawgC220

but i also took into consideration that the dealer may know what their doing better than some garage out there...ya know what i mean? Just a piece of mind for the same price and they warranty their work longer than garages & independents as well.

DavidNJ

Never worked on an MB, however both repairs on this thread are interesting and similar.

On a racing stock car the water pump is pretty exposed. Assuming the engine is cool a single person can change it in 30-60 minutes.

On a production car, you need to remove all sorts of shrouding. Brackets for power steering, A/C, alternator, and smog equipment may have to be removed. coolant needs to be drained. If it is a tight fit against the radiator, that may need to come out, and the A/C condensor may need to be moved out of the way

The head gasket is most of the above plus having to remove the cam chain/belt, probably the distributor, disconnect the intake manifold with fuel injection, disconnect the exhaust manifold (always fun, nothing sticks like a corroded exhaust bolt), , remove the head, clean the surface, and reassemble.

No the head gasket usually is accompanied by a warped head and/or block, which adds to cost significantly. (the gasket rarely decides to fail by itself). On an older car, with the head off, I would be inclined to do a valve job, new valve springs, maybe new valve stem guides, and maybe new valves. On a race engine, a between season upgrade always includes those items. And valve springs are changed a couple of times per season on the race engine (with the engine in the car). Some drag racers change them a couple of times during a single event!!!

Now, other than infant mortality due to a defective part or assembly, neither a head gasket nor a water pump should fail. Common cause of head gasket failure is overheating, and of water pump failure is poor lubrication (no anit-freeze/old anit-freeze).

So, were the causes of these failures discernable?

David

chesskidd

Hello everyone,
thank you all for the inputs.

Would the cause of coolant system failed due to a sub zero weather? I remember back in 4 months ago that it was a extremely freezing morning (as usual here in Minnesota's winter), I'm still a college student so I don't have a garage parking yet (a very disvantage to me, but will have one this coming school year), so my car wouldn't start for a couple secs, I forced a little bit and it finally did, then immediately after that I heard a bust coming from somewhere underneath the hood. I was kind of worried, but then was in a hurry, so I left that behind, now I just remember I had this incident...

Maybe that's why water pump or the hose hosed?

I have also read from some other people's threads, they had the water pump around 160 at the dealershop, some dude had around 200, ok at least those prices are faily reasonable. but not at my dealer!


p.s. last year they charged me 257 bux for the drag link, and after I did a price check online, it's only 150 around; 66 bux for one piece of ball joint (ended up with two replaced), online it's 22 bucks each. also there were lots of overpriced parts they replaced for my car at that time too. will never go back to that dealer again, customer service blows too , but other mercedes shops are a bit farther than this one.

DavidNJ

If you didn't have a fresh coolant (anti-freeze + water), that could have broken it.

Also, if you are on a college campus: a) you don't have the only older MB; b) there is probably a garage within a few miles that does a lot of college student/staff/faculty work (all tend to have older cars); and c) you probably have lots of friends to take to/from a repair shop. When I was in college I frequently had a full Pinto (well, I didn't graduate recently) when I took the school newspaper layout from Cambridge, MA to Worcester for printing.

When you see a similar vintage MB at you school, ask the owner where they get it serviced. You may find a local garage or even another student who fixes MB, and maybe even fixes them well.

David

sosh

Do not use a rebuilt water pump or any other than OEM. The cost of labor is greater than the parts cost by far and the failure rate on thaose I have pointed out is much higher than OEM. For a few hundred bucks more have the dealer do it and he will warranty both the parts and labor. Water pump leaks are usually from the bearing seal and not cracks

chesskidd

it turned out they put on a "remanafactured" water pump (277 bucks) , isn't it still a "rebuilt" ???
I asked the dealer, and they told me that "the parts" are still original, er... I don't get it.
what's the difference? I'd be so damn pissed if it's essentially meaning the same thing just worded differently.

DavidNJ

Same thing. Just a matter of who does it. And when its done by a rebuilder it can be called rebuilt or remanufactured.

Rebuilt parts are more common when the original castings or forgings are no longer available. For instance, a water pump for a '38 Buick straight 8 would probably be rebuilt. And a new one (new old stock, NOS) would probably have rotten gaskets anyway.

David

GDawgC220

there are generic rebuilds and OEM rebuilds. What they probably put in was re-built by Mercedes using MB parts and not some parts out of a junk yard bin, kinda like mix and match.

chesskidd

So it means it's still bad, right

For that amount of money, I would have paid a bit more and get a new new one for 320 bucks if that's really the case, at least it's "new" fresh off factory. or else I could have ordered a "new one" from another place online for 160 bucks..

But then, they didn't even notify me and just went straight away and put on (the least word I heard was "will put on a new one for ya"),
today I picked up my car, and found out, it was actually a "remanafactured" so-called "new one".
what the....!