Originally Posted by Thericker

Excellent post Impro! I still find it odd how the described race goes into detail though about pulling said C6 at 90-100....The C6 would have had to cuaght up at 90 then somehow chocked?

Originally Posted by Improviz

Well, road tests for each show that these things are somewhere between a half second to a whole second apart in the 1/4, depending upon which two tests you compare, so let's say they were 0.7 apart just for this example.

So if C6 lost around 1.5 seconds between time AMG punched it, flew by, he reacted, shifted or stomped, car reacted, etc., he'd still be several lengths behind at the end of the 1/4...

Also, by 90 or so they'd be getting close enough to the merge that he may have let off by then, realizing that he wasn't going to close it in time, or for that matter out of a sense of self-preservation, realizing that in a collision between him and the ML, well, that's definitely one he *wouldn't* be winning!

Originally Posted by Rider1

Without causing any trouble .... what does "thericker" avatar mean?

Mine (Rider1) is my chocolate lab's dog's name...Rider....and he's number one with me. He's in the avatar picture.

Dave

Originally Posted by Improviz

Have you ever seen an ML63 actually tested in a standing-start km in 23 seconds flat?

Because, frankly, with 500 horsepower and weighing in at 5,000 pounds, well, that's a 10 pound per horsepower burden for the motor, which means it is a low-to-mid 13 second 1/4 mile car, which is exactly what we see in the road test data, including this test from Edmunds.com:
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2007/merc...ticleId=118931

0-60: 4.7
1/4: 13.3 @ 105.6

Now, this is about 7 to 10 mph off of the C6s I've seen tested, a pretty big margin. If Car A is pulling 7 to 10 mph faster than Car B at the end of a distance, it's kind of a stretch to project that Car B is going to be ahead, pulling away. Because, of course, it won't be.

The fact is that without exception, all of the publications cited in this thread have tested the C6 at a substantially higher 1/4 mile trap speed than the ML. If as you maintain the two accelerate at the same rate, it is flat-out impossible for the scientifically conducted tests from all of these publications to point in the opposite direction. If the ML were accelerating at an equal or faster rate, its trap would be measured at an equal or faster speed.

A well-driven C6 will win in a straightline race.

Having said all of that, the race, as described, is entirely possible. As described was:

1) vehicles round corner.

2) vette starts accelerating, certainly not at full throttle, to hit merge first. 'vette owner is probably exhibiting a tad bit of hubris here, thinking he doesn't need full throttle here, not knowing what he's up against.

3) ML owner jumps to full throttle. since 'vette owner is not at full throttle, ML blasts by.

4) C6 owner is shocked to find that this SUV has some serious grunt, then has to react, then has to take action: either by flooring it, with accompanying pause for downshift (if car is auto), or downshifting it and flooring it (if manual). Combined, this would chew up at least good second or so. Meanwhile, the ML is pulling away, hard.

5) C6 gets in gear and hits full throttle. Too late. With a huge head start, he can't close in that distance, would probably need closer to a full half mile to close distance lost by ML's head start.

And this assumes the C6 driver did everything perfectly once he got on it. If not, this would hurt him even more.

Perfectly plausible.

Originally Posted by hekeke

corvette maybe faster from 0-100 but ml63 maybe faster from 100 to 150..just maybe due to the big power...

Originally Posted by AMG_55

youre forgetting drag, ive taken a ml55 to 140+ and it takes a looooooong time.

it was full of fishing gear, 4 people on board and the elevation of more than 3500 ft or so didnt help

Originally Posted by acicchelli

Good post. The ML63 is plenty fast to beat an unsuspecting C6 vette in a short race.

Originally Posted by TT C6

It seems that delusions are contagious.

Originally Posted by Improviz

Perhaps a bit of simple subtraction might be of assistance.


Assume both cars are driven absolutely perfectly. If Car "V" is from about 0.5 to 0.7 seconds faster to the 1/4 mile than Car "M", then if the two vehicles are driven by perfect humans with zero second reaction times who do not make mistakes and leave the starting line at exactly the same time, then Car "V" will win.

HOWEVER, if Car "V" leaves the starting line a full second *after* Car "M", then at the end of the 1/4 mile, simple subtraction tells you that Car "M" will be 0.3 to 0.5 seconds ahead, because of the spot:

So, for example, if Car V runs a 12.7 and Car M runs a 13.3, but Car V leaves at 1.0 seconds, Car V's *total time* to run 1/4 would be 12.7 + 1.0 = 13.7, 0.4 seconds behind Car M. Which is why with good reaction time, you can beat a driver in a faster car in a short race.

And that is what is being described here, except that a human being with unknown reaction time and driving skills was piloting the Corvette. I covered all of this here:
https://mbworld.org/forums/showpost....0&postcount=47

Absolutely nothing delusional about it.

Originally Posted by AMG_55

youre forgetting drag, ive taken a ml55 to 140+ and it takes a looooooong time.

it was full of fishing gear, 4 people on board and the elevation of more than 3500 ft or so didnt help

Originally Posted by TT C6

Ok then.
A minivan can take a twin turbo viper if the viper doesn't know he is racing the minivan.

Originally Posted by TT C6

If I knock out a professional fighter that isn't expecting a punch while he's walking down the street;
it doesn't mean SQUAT!

Originally Posted by TT C6

Now if I posted on the internet about knocking the pro fighter out,
it would be assumed that I was claiming a victory.
I'd be willing to bet that the same pro-fighter would eventually find me and give me a reality check.

That's what I'm doing here.
Giving you guys a reality check.

Originally Posted by TT C6

Ok then.
A minivan can take a twin turbo viper if the viper doesn't know he is racing the minivan.

If I knock out a professional fighter that isn't expecting a punch while he's walking down the street;
it doesn't mean SQUAT!

Now if I posted on the internet about knocking the pro fighter out,
it would be assumed that I was claiming a victory.
I'd be willing to bet that the same pro-fighter would eventually find me and give me a reality check.

That's what I'm doing here.
Giving you guys a reality check.

Originally Posted by Improviz

.....the thing is that not all drivers are magazine/track hounds, and therefore might not actually *know* that in a straightup encounter with no errors by either driver, the C6 is faster

So, for all we know the guy who posted this didn't realize this, didn't take reaction time, etc. into account; who knows?

I can promise you, though, that if two cars are within 0.5 or so of each other, it is *always* a drivers' race, and people can, and do, make mistakes!! I've got enough kills (or, sorry, "victories" if you prefer) of faster cars underneath my belt to verify this!!

Originally Posted by Blue_Monster

I remember that, But dont compare the 55 with the 63, thats apples and oranges

Originally Posted by AMG_55

im not comparing
just giving an example


that was fun huh?

ahhhhh, that ****er shot me

Originally Posted by DoctorD

It's all very interesting trying to post-rationalise eagleeye's story, but none of us will really know what happened since we weren't there.

There was a subtext within the story that (a) the ML63 was surprisingly fast and (b) not 'just' fast in SUV-terms.

Another hypothesis is that the surface could have been slippery/poor as the story below illustrates rather well...

Those of you with access to this week's Autocar might be interested in a story that involved the ML63. Last year a record was set for how fast a car could accelerate indoors. A Toyota F1 car was used and it reached 81 mph in a 384m indoor arena.

Autocar decided to see how close other cars could reach to this record and if any could beat it. This time they 'only' had use of a hall that was 220m long.

Cars assembled included Jaguar XKR, BMW M Coupe, Aston V8 Vantage, Shelby Daytona, Ford GT, Audi RS4 plus several lightweight sportscars and a few race cars.

Out of the road cars the ML63 came 3rd. Ahead of the RS4, and the Ford GT and the Jag, Aston, Shelby etc. It recorded a speed of 72.28mph and a 0-60 time of 4.62 secs. The surface wasn't great hence the slower times by the Ford GT and Shelby Cobra, but the RS4 seemed to find full traction and that only recorded 4.92 secs to 60mph.

To quote Autocar; "And with its super-fast shifting auto gearbox it was even faster than the RS4 inside the NEC. Look at the 0-60mph time: that's absolutely outrageous for such an enormous machine. Put it another way, this is an off-roader that could live with a Ford GT in a traffic light GP in the dry. And eat it for breakfast if it was wet."

Clearly the test was something of a gimmick, since the surface was so inappropriate for a proper comparison, but it illustrates the relative potential in less than ideal conditions. I bet it sounded pretty good (indoors) too.