Speakerdude

Well I finally gave up on the dealer. My CD changer went out a year or so ago and now the Nav is off by 70 miles. I was told that they would have to replace the antenna for $400 to see if that was the problem. Long story short:

I bought a Pioneer Divac 3 on sale for $650 and also bought a 12" overhead LCD to replace the factory one.

After being told by "experts" and "amatuers" alike that there is no way to interface the units I gota Metra harness for $15, a VW antenna adaptor, (2) PAC Turbo 1 buffer preamps, and went to work.

Despite what I had been told all the fiber cable does is work w/ the CD changer and has nothing to do w/ the Bose amp. The little PAC preamps allowed me to take the 1.5 V P/P Pioneer output and provide a 4.0 V P/P output to the amp. The overhead unit was on sale @ Custom Sounds new for $199 (normally $499) so that was a no brainer. The only thing even remotely difficult was making the ABS trim ring to get a factory look. The whole thing took maybe 5-6 hours to do. The improvement in sound, function, and looks is amazing. I am now going to go ahead and take a JL Audio 10" Sub and put it where the old CD changer was and then add a conventional amp to drive it. I have a 4 channel electronic crossover that will allow me to set the Bose corners to run from around 80Hz up and then supplement the low frequency w/ the JL.

The Bose system really comes to life w/ a good head unit and the DVD based Nav is far superior to the factory set-up. With the Pioneer I did not even hook up the VSS, Reverse, or Brake circuits. I drove the truck maybe 10 minutes and it calibrated itself within a couple feet.

Total cost was under a grand plus I got a $200 mail-in rebate for the Pioneer.

I'll post a couple pictures of the subwoofer installation next week after it's completed.

55fanatic

Im not sure who you spoke with... you should of asked some of the members on here who have worked on there cars... for example... ME, lol

little trick for future reference, you could run your RCA pre outs directly into the factory amp, completely by passing the PAC hi to low converter by cutting up a set of RCA cables...

in any case, if you want to hook up the VSS, and reverse they are in the main harness from the factory, they were the two brown wires on the european car plug(IIRC)

Check out my pictures on my sound domain site... give you some ideas for further upgrades... I would def suggest a box like mine


OK now for the good stuff, looks like you did a sick job, I wish I had the double din unit in my 55... I have the Avic N1 in mine. I installed the ipod integrator into the center console and seperate CD changer under the drivers seat

Speakerdude

I wish I was as talented as you. I flew by the seat of my pants. I got the VSS and park brake on a simple switch to ground for viewing the front screen DVD on the move and also got the JL woofer done. It sounds pretty decent for an "amature". I wish you had responded to my posts for information prior to my having to do it myself. All in all it was a fun project, guess I will have to go back to my daytime job of engineering aerospace projects.



Steve

mohawk

Hey nice work!!

I've just completed a similar setup, but with a Kenwood DDX7039 2DIN unit fully integrated w/ bluetooth, reversing camera, GPS & Ipod. Yup, the Bose speakers are much crisper with an aftermarket receiver - 54Wx4 seems to do the trick. All up blew the $2K budget!!

I've been racking my brains on how to install a sub, and was about to purchase a powered Blaupunkt THb 200A and install it under the F passenger seat until I saw your JL in the cargo bay. I'll go for something similar, say an 10 inch slimline with a 250W+ amp under the driver's seat (I've ditched the 6 stacker and phone). I've decided not to install the amp under a second row seat as you've done, as the space becomes a footwell when my 3rd row of seats are used, with the second row set in their forward position.

So how was your JL sub fitted? Is the speaker mount made of MDF? It looks like your sub is sealed into body - is there enough void (box) volume (not sure if JL thought this through)? From memory a 10 inch sub needs around 20 litres of sealed box space, including driver displacement.

In any case I'll have to customise my own mount as JL products aren't available in Australia.

Speakerdude

I wound up having to use an 8" 4 ohm driver as the 10 would not allow me to use the factory louvered cover. The JL is designed for an infinate baffle so there was not too much fabrication involved. I dynamatted all the interior surfaces I could get to then used a couple cans of Great Stuff expanding foam. I made the baffle w/ 3/4" MDF and it slid right into the area between the plastic and the metal behind it. I siliconed and screwed it in place then resealed everyting w/ silicone again. It really sounds good. I don't know if it's a night and day difference as the Bose speakers are far better w/ a new head unit. I don't have the 3rd row so the space under the seat worked fine for me.

I also had planned on using a Kenwood but when I got the Pioneer for what I did I went that direction. I also did the blue tooth (came w/ the unt) and bought an XM module for weather and traffic information. The 12" rear monitor was a real find. It took me a little while to realize all I had to do was ground the speed reference and parking brake sensors to enable the front screen for DVD. Good luck w/ your installation and post a couple pictures. I have a killer stealth system in my 944 that really took some time but was well worth the effort. I have never fooled w/ the 911s as there really is not a good way I am aware of to do a system w/o modifying the car. I have always tried to never get further into something than you can get back out.

Steve

mohawk

Thanks Steve!

OK here's the plan (and further to your last comment):
Sub install will be non-permanent: JBL GTO804 mounted onto a 3/4 in baffle, screwed onto the metal body. Rather than use silicone, screw in a rubber grommet adjacent to the plastic edge trim to make a tight fit. The baffle is then removable if I need to get to the jack. The inside of the interior would be dynamatted, but I would stop short of using expanding foam and instead experiment with stuffing in sound deadening foam until I'm happy with the sound. Hope this works!

As for the amp, a matched Class D, say a JBL GT5A3001 hooked up via RCAs to the head unit.

I'll send pics when I'm done!

Cheers,
M

Speakerdude

That should work nicely. I took the jack and wrapped it in an old 911 tool pouch I had laying around then used rubber bungees to fasten it to the underside of the rear passenger seat. I probably should have gone your route w/ the gasket but I was too excited and already had the other materials here.

Steve

Speakerdude

Quick response to a previous reply.

The PAC piece does not take a low impedance high level input (speaker output) and knock it down to a preamp / high impedance level. It is an active preamp w/ adjustable gain that has RCA inputs and outputs. It works extremely well in this application as you can use an o-scope and set the P/P output voltage for the proper 4 V P/P input w/o introducing the inherant noise associated w/ the use of impedance conversion and the associated signal to noise degradation. I recorded a pink noise source and used the CD for my signal to the Pioneer. At full gain it outputs right at 1.5 V. The additional gain allows the Bose to develop rated power. Again I certainly am not as smart or experienced as you apparantly are but I do have a bit of experience working w/ electronics.

Steve

Speakerdude

Mohawk:

If you want a JL I can send it to you. It's not that expensive. The driver is around $80-$85 and shipping is not horrible. You could be the only 55 down under to have one. They are pretty decent drivers for this application. The impedance stays relatively consistant and even the 8" has a Free air resonance around 35 Hz. They are ideal for infinate baffle loading as they do not need the back pressure of a sealed cabinet to operate. That is the main reason I went w/ JL verses building a sealed enclosure. It is the first low frequency driver I have used that actually is tight in this type of environment. I have a penchant for isobaric Scotish speakers (Linns) and tube amps (currently Jolida Class A) in my main listening system but for a car these are pretty good.


Steve

mohawk

Steve,

Thanks for the offer but I did compare both products. The JBL has a slightly better Fs of 29.60 Hz. With a shallow mounting depth of 110mm it should be up to the task.

Er, I just read that it has a small sealed Vbox of 0.3ft^3 or 8.5L, which is tiny! I'll have a look at building a custom sealed box which would just pop straight into the cavity. This way there's no nead to stuff foam etc.

M

55fanatic

I think that was directed at me?

Ok now I know what you are talking about, I apologize... Phoenix gold makes one as well... I should of put one on my system but by the time I was done I started rushing things...

and our levels of experience? I know how to assemble it and tune it(although its been a while)... you know the science behind it and for that

you may want to look at purchasing an MECP study guide... you would prolly find it pretty interesting

Speakerdude

The JBL sounds like an excellent choice. I wish that I had seen it prior to the JL purchase as the samll sealed box approach was what I initially wanted. Good luck and again I would like to see pictures of the completed system.

Steve

mohawk

Thanks Steve.

Ok here's an update of the work - after a bit of fiddling around with a prototype enclosure I decided not to mount the baffle flush with the trim as this would seal what is effectively an air conduit. This 'conduit' allows the cabin to equalise pressure, which is useful for maintaining air quality (by enabling the extraction of airborne dust from the cabin).

Case in point is after my last trek through the outback: the foam liner/filter that is housed in the cover panel gathered a fair layer of dust, which of course had to be cleaned. I am currently looking at a configuration that would allow (efficient) air reticulation. The trade-off is that the resultant Vbox may be below the 8.5L limit.

Cheers,
M

55fanatic

if you have to go under the needed volume you can add stuffing... that tricks the sub into believing there is 30% more air volume then there really is.

Speakerdude

I just picked up a 98 Bose subwoofer off EBAY and got it to work under the passenger seat. It is working in parallel w/ the JL in the back. The Bose is a dual voice coil 6.5 w/ each voice coil 4 ohms. I put them in series and then in parallel w/ the JL. The resulting low bass is astounding for the size of the drivers. I am 55 and listen to no rap etc so the old rock and roll and bluegrass sounds great. It was a beeeatch to get it under the seat as the old phone etc is there. I had to lose the storage drawer but no big deal. It is a viable option for you if you want to maintain the rear louver. I paid $90 for mine. It is passive and works quite well w/ the outboard amp. I did not realize the old phone transceiver has to remain connected as it sets off the SRS light due to the emergency transmitter sensing being disconnected. I was not happy when I was patting myself on the back and then the light came on. It took a few minutes to realize what was up with it. Life is a learning experience. It all fits, barely and w/ skinned knuckles, and is done w/ no mods to the vehicle.

Steve

mohawk

Steve,

Is the bass balanced (6.5" front and 8" rear)? A single 6.5" driver seems a bit small, but may be good for delivering mid bass, so the overall effect might actually be ok. Also what's the power handling of the Bose, and (assuming it's lower), does it compromise wattage going to the JL?

I was actually going to custom make a slimline enclosure with a 8" or 10" Pioneer slimline to fit under the seat. The 10" has similar characteristics as the 8" JBL.

55, thanks for the tip - I'll stuff the MkII enclosure as required when I tune it.

-M

Speakerdude

The bass probably is compromised somewhat but it still sounds really good. My primary goal, besides getting NAV back, was to have something that in no way altered the vehicle and allowed putting the OE gear back in if the next buyer (if / when I sell it) wants to or if I decide to do something else in the future. The Bose cabinet is nice in that it is a tuned wave guide and it is meant to fit the contours of the vehicle exactly. I have had a couple cars that I got way upside down in and alterations detracted significantly from the resale value. I have enough power to bottom out both woofers with no problem.

The ML is a current obsession, I have a lot of things that I get involved in with both feet. This vehicle and the associated cost is miniscule compared to my family, guitars, amplifiers, and home audio gear, much less the boat, the other cars,etc... Unfortunately being a type A personality combined with my job as a design engineer gets me off on tangents. It only allows 4-5 hours a day for sleep. It drives my wife cray.

Good luck and keep the posts going as you progress. I am always interested in other solutions to problems.

I just got the Renntech ECU upgrade done along w/ a new intake, so far so good.

Steve

Speakerdude

One of my other passions, and the one that paid my way through college.

Speakerdude

My first and foremost obsession, 3 generations of them!!!

55fanatic

congrats on all of your obsessions Steve... one day I hope to be in your position but for now at 25, Ill keep my car audio, lol

Speakerdude

I wish I could be happy with a single car stereo again. I put the system in the ML, the 944 has a banging system, and I am back into vacuum tube gear. I am currently using a class a 15W / channel amplifier, vacuum tube phone preamp, and a Linn table w/ Linn spakers. It sounds decent for old records.

I just restored the Victrola that I rescued from an antique auction. It works great. I still have my grandparents 78s that my dad listened to. It inspired him to become a fairly renowned sax player in his day.

The theater has an Epson Pro1080 projector w/ a bunch of McIntosh surround electronics and M&K drivers, it sounds pretty decent also. The M&K speakers are drastically under rated for the performance they yield. Lucas films uses them as their reference monitors.

The audio stuff can definately become an obsession. I buy / sell / trade gear all the time.

thedips

steve... i just saw your SUB mount... how did you get it to fit in the changer spot??? what size sub is that? im guessing its a 8"? how deep did you have there? what did you mount the sub to? or make? thanks again for any help... sick install!!

EDIT... ok i just re read the thread.. i dont know how i missed your post.. i see that the sub is a JBL GTO804.... ANY tips for building a baffel for that little area? did you remove all the parts for the changer? and just mounted the baffel to the existing changer mounting points?

sorry for all the noob questions... i am not a install pro just an enthusiast ...thanks again.

any other info, tips or suggestions with fitting a sub in this area... or a low profile sub will be greatly appreciated!!! thanks again!

Speakerdude

Actually the sub is a JL Audio 8" 4ohm that I picked up for around $100 from Custom Sounds. I initially had it mounted to a baffel and sealed into the area. I dynamatted the panels behind it and also put in standard pink insulation. It sounded good but the bass was not controlled. I took it out after this post was done and made a small sealed fiberglass enclosure that fits in really well.
I used a block of styrofoam and trimmed it until it fit right. I then put duct tape all over it to keep the resin from dissolving the block and laid the first glass on top. I took the styrofoam out and glassed the inside a few layers then glassed the front baffel on. It worked great.

It sounds like the bass does not go quite as deep but it is much more focused and definatelly tighter. I also picked up a Bose sub that fits under the seat on the 98-99 MLs and moved the phone and stuff around to allow it to go in place. The driver is a conventional 6 1/2" dual voice coil w/ each voice coil being 4 ohms. I paralleled them and then ran it off one sub channel and the JL off the other. It made a huge difference. The fronts are rolled off at 50HZ and the woofers run up to 100HZ. The overlap gets that area where the speakers are mechanically rolling off. The overall system sounds way better than any I have heard in an ML and is totally concealed. Everyting can come out and the stock stuff can go back in when the truck is sold. I don't listen to anything that has a lot of artificial boomy bass so the smaller drivers work fine for me.

The only negative things I can find after using it a few months are the way the Pioneer works. It does not have a good memory when you are in NAV mode and also listening to a CD or DVD. I also don't really like the seek feature. It is difficult to use w/o taking your eyes off the road. The other thing is that the Pioneer does not come with any type of mounting bracket. It is extra and I had already made one for mine when I became aware of it. For a grand retail they could at least throw in a cheap metal mounting bracket like Kenwood does. If I had to do it again I would look seriously at a Kenwood head end. I got the Divac D3 when they were being discontinued for $500 so it was definately priced right.

Good luck with whatever you do to yours.

Steve

thedips

steve...

thanks for the help and reply....

welll i can go a few ways i guess...
i can try to build a sealed box like you did with a 8" sub in that little enclosure.. acording to most subs need only 8.5 liters sealed.. which shouldnt be too hard to get in there... it will be tight however...

or i can try to just find a high quality free air sub... and mount it and power it in that location...

or i can find a sub compact sub and slide it under the rear seat....

the sealed would sound the best.. with free air being next.. and then a sub compact sub under a seat being last... im guessing???

Speakerdude

Is your ML an 01 or earlier? Are you planning on keeping the Bose system if you have it?

I would agree with the order of performance on the woofers with the free air by far the easiest and cleanest to do. 8 liters is a bigger box than you think and I seriously doubt that you could make a box that big and get it in there w/o cutting the truck up. Both the JBL that Mohawk used and the JL I used require very small enclosures (about half of what you are talking about) and mine barely fit. If it was not made of fiberglass it would never have fit. Go to partsexpress.com and you can save a ton of dough on sound dampening materials as well as various other obscure parts.

Do you plan on Video also? What about NAV?

Good luck and be sure to post pictures, also be careful and look before you drill.

Steve