-NeObLaZtEr-

The Pullman version might not do very well, because anybody who is in that class would probably want an exclusive brand, not a Mercedes (I think this is clear, because the old S was already so much more technologically advanced than Rolls'/Bentleys, and people still bought them over it, which says a lot), maybe that was the case 50 years ago, while I think the CLA/C are good cars, their affordability is driving away some of the very high end customers on the other end of the spectrum diminishing Mercedes' appeal. The whole point of the Maybach was that it was a Maybach, not a top of the line Mercedes. It is like getting rid of the LS460, and having a super Avalon in its place.

K-A

Bingo. We already see sales of the most recent CL, newest SL, even CLS at their practically their lowest levels in recent history (and the SLS at a standstill, pretty much not selling at all at this point) making it seem as if people are having a harder time paying those top dollars when there are starting to be budget priced M-B's next to them in showrooms (many of which share the same design language, parts, electronics, even chassis' going forward as M-B moves to just 2 platforms- FWD and RWD for their future cars). With the CLA coming, and the others to follow, I think it'll be increasingly difficult.

I feel the one M-B that's impervious to that is the S. The S will always have status and cachet. It's the one high priced product that can truly back up its premium in a non-superfluous way. It's a functional tool that you can't get for a lower price (the size, the stature, the utility, etc.). At the same time, the M-B brand moving increasingly downmarket and now bringing FWD upmarket-economy models to the U.S will make the S have a harder time competing against the RR/Bentleys for those who have the money and want to have the most cachet they can for their bucks. M-B is doing their best to curb this by going all-out on the W222, which I'm sure is partly because they know they will have more of an uphill battle going forward in the ultra-premium class as the M-B "Star" gets dominated by "lower priced" cars.

K-A

Some screenshots I snatched off of a video to give some perspective with other cars on the road.

Next to an A-Class and Chrysler 300:

Pagani

I realize with my comment I simply exacerbated what I complained about. And I am not going to counteract any of your replies, lest I want some more back (they may well be deserved). I used to be a big visitor of MBWorld and currently am a daily visitor of GCF.

KA, you mentioned rants. That is what I protested about. There may be very few participants in threads like this, but there are many readers (hence my 12 posts). I guess I had some baggage with you from GCF and picked on you. Sorry! All others, did not mean to come across as holier than though. If it helps you, think of me as extremely jealous of all of you.

I am a busy professional with a penchant for cars and love to hear the nitty gritty. At a young age I led myself down an unwise path of owning expensive luxury cars, while not accumulating hard assets. I wish I had had some good MBworld.org minds speaking the truth about practical stuff such as maintenance, value etc. I owned, consecutively in short order, a 2002 M5 (until 2004), a 2005 S 600 (through 2006) and a 2007 SL 600 (through 2007). I realize now that I did not afford those cars as a mid-twenties guy leveraged to the hilt. Yes, I was in the "booming" business of real estate.

Fast forward a good few years, I have never been in a better position to date to own an S Class (currently my favorite, and a goal car), but the recession I went through thoroughly changed how I view my lifestyle. It gets a bit ridiculous when I have analysts working for me that drive S/SL etc and I, the person who signs their checks, have something worth a third of that sticker (it is hybrid). I guess they haven't been where I have been (good for them).

I am getting to the point when I am actually ready to pull the plug. Although I am loving the 222, I think the CLS is the better way to reenter. I am coming here to this board to hear from prospective owners, and current owners of the 221. But I find myself very bothered by the back and forth. Nonetheless, I will keep that opinion to myself and read quietly

Germancar1

Right I thought so, a banned, clueless ranter.


M

Germancar1

Bingo!


M

-NeObLaZtEr-

GC1,

I will admit K-A can sometimes have clueless banter that is sometimes worthy of tremendous hate, but lets not forget, the sheer level of depth/color and outright passion in some of his posts can blow a person away, it is such a true passion that runs through his bloodstream. It is something to be appreciated and admired. I feel all the hatred towards K-A is much exaggerated.

Lets all stop talking about other members, and get back to the main point of this thread. A place for people to read and get intrigued by various perspectives of this car, and not members. NO MORE CRITICISM/OPINIONS OF ANY OTHER MEMBERS FROM ANYBODY, PLEASE TRY TO KEEP YOUR OPINIONS TO YOURSELVES.

K-A

All good and thanks for the clarification. I hope it works out for you! The back and forth is annoying indeed and believe me I'll try my best to not engage in it (though sometimes it's not easy at all). MBWorld is a great place with massive amounts of info. I indeed spend countless hours on these message boards and do feel/hope they count for something, however I and I'm sure many others have saved tens of thousands of dollars with the info armed from places like this as for where to get deals on cars or parts, deals people are getting, "tricks of the trade", ways around your car, etc. I even got my current car from the owner/founder of a message board much like MBWorld and got a deal and treatment alone that's worth the price of all my posts spent on these boards. Definitely give it a chance. It's one thing to come here and talk cars, but once you narrow in on a car, the info and help you can attain for that particular car can be priceless.

I appreciate that and I also appreciate members like yourself who can set aside any previous "differences" and be objective/appreciate about positives people can provide rather than just stubbornly focusing in on the negatives (which is all too easy, especially on the internet, which in turns piles on more and more vitriol already so prevalent on the internet). It shows great respect and intelligence.

And spot on, on the last part. Discussing members is something that a thread shouldn't detract to. I'm here to talk cars and can do it till I turn blue. Leave the wars to Twitter and the like.

And back to the W222:

Here's a new Test Drive/Review:

K-A

And a first/drive review that's mostly positive with a bit of perceptive drawbacks.

hyperion667

If I get an S it WILL NOT be anything less than 550 LOL...........
why would someone buy the boat with such low power?

cookstar

K-A

2 things that that have me thinking about those who will early-adopt this car:

1- You've got a high technology car with robust powerplants but an incredibly outdated and frankly lousy 7G transmission which will ONLY apparently be on the S for one year (2014 MY). If you're buying (not leasing) the car, you might want to consider waiting for future resale (a one-off 7G on the W222 won't bode well in the future).

2- The pricing with options I just noticed seem significantly higher (or easier to get higher, at least) than the W221? Initially M-B will charge full MSRP for the car I'm sure. However, if you look at basically every other Mercedes out right now, they're in an era where they're being discounted to levels I frankly have never seen from a Premium Car manufacturer. I constantly get Dealer offers in my Email and the C and E are both being practically given away, the CLS seems to get cheaper and cheaper into prices/Leases that the E Class used to command and even the SL is already being slashed significantly in prices. As discussed earlier, these higher priced M-B's are showing lagging sales over outgoing bodystyles and even year over year in many cases, so they're seeing the largest continuous discounts. M-B's sales growth is being spurred by the lower priced cars (with more to come) and arguably it can be considered those are also cannibalizing the higher priced cars sales.

Which begs the question: Will the S follow route? If the CLS or SL are any indication, simply waiting a year or so will get you drastically better deals, and a 9G transmission probably.

My prediction is as higher priced M-B's have a tougher time commanding MSRP, the S will be the one that can command at least a closer % of the asking price, as like I said before it's really the only one that backs it up with functionality and necessity. If someone KNOWS why they want an S, they would have a tough time settling for an E, even if it will cost them like 1/3'rd in Lease payments perhaps....

However, one has to wonder still.... if when taking heart and brain into consideration, is it wiser for them to get it right away, or wait. Both have their pros and cons. I see lots of members contemplating those pros and cons. It may be difficult, but I'd wait, unless money is no object.

ajm0623

spot on, k-a! i was at my dealer yesterday, and he basically mirrored what you said above. whilst he denied and disavowed any knowledge about a transmission upgrade in '15 (with a wink and a nod), of course, he conceded that he will command (or "comand" in benzo, speak, hahahahaha!) and get full msrp for the first year. he already has 50+ orders for the 222 and said people are willing to pay full sticker for the "i'm the first one (or 1 of 50 apparently!) on the block to have it" back-bowing ability. i won't judge people as i try (failingly sometimes) not to do that. suffice it to say, instead of being order #51, *i* took advantage of the ridiculously low prices on the outgoing 221 instead. and then i'll wait for the teething pains to pass, the introduction of new 9g and a better deal on a new 222 in 2 years or so. and this goes without saying, i will be reading these boards in the interim about everyone's experiences as the early 222 adopters.

K-A

Thanks! Well said and I think you made a smart move! Plus you've got that new SL to help tie you over. The W221 is a tried and true instant-classic to me. The first M-B in about a decade to bring back that classic "Mercedes" quality.

Often you see early adopters happy enough for the first year of "nobody has it but me" memories, however IMO even more often when there's a car of this caliber with lagging elements (i.e a practically decade (?) old transmission that was never great to begin with) they seem to feel shortchanged when in the future, all other MY drivers have the newest drivetrain. Of course, we don't *KNOW* if the 9G comes, so it could be a crapshoot (but we're pretty sure it will).

I got a 2010 E Class in 2010 when the body style was all the rage and hoopla, and got one of the better deals at the time on the first year car (better than about anyone I compared to).... but afterwards once the W212's started embarking on what I perceive to be "the most discounted car in history" it made me quite upset.... to be paying practically hundreds more than some people with the exact same car just a newer model year (I traded for a 2011 after a year and got my payments reduced a lot).

I personally would "forewarn" prospective S buyers who put "value" high on their list (I know it sounds funny but even S shoppers look for value I'm certain) that this era of Mercedes may have different circumstances on its pricing once the "initial newness" wears off. Again, looking at declining YOY growth of most upmarket M-B's, declining numbers compared to previous body styles during eras where Mercedes had less "lower priced" models coming in to cannibalize them and disallow Mercedes from going into "price slashing" territory, I wouldn't be surprised if W222's start seeing significant discounts earlier and more heavily than the lesser-priced W221's did. I don't think it'll get as bad as C/E/CLS/SL discounts but it'll be better than full-MSRP which the W222 will have enough pent-up demand to get during its first year, IMO.

EDIT: Just came across this. An article on the W212 compared to an F01 (haven't read it yet). I know most here won't agree with me and perhaps strongly so, but in this segment I still think the F01 based off of its design balance and holistic beauty is hard to aesthetically beat. The S appears smaller in this pic but not sure if that's some camera trickery due to the angles/distances of the cars. It may just be smaller if the W221 is smaller as the W222/W221 are the same dimensions.

ajm0623

k-a, my good man, you are much too generous in your supposition that this board both is fluent in german (though that might go with the territory!) and maintains an acutely supreme superman-like ocular function!

-NeObLaZtEr-

Brilliant strategy, what did you pay for it (if you don't mind me asking)? The last year or two of production seem the best, as any bugs are worked out and you don't lose an arm and a leg as soon as you drive off the lot, you lose fingers and toes. A person can either buy a W222 in a few months or buy an improved W222 and C-class for the same money in a few years. Of course the car will not be as special and unique then, while some people prioritize that, I personally don't think it is worth $30K. But if someone's not looking for value, who am I to stop them?!

MBNUT1

That right there is why I am such a MBNUT!

Wolfman

I personally don't put too much stock on some of K-A's predictions. While MB is developing a 9 speed transmission (for years I might add), there has been no suggestion of an imminent implementation in the new S-Class; at least I haven't seen any specifics (happen to have family relation working at Mercedes).

Not saying it's not coming, but for me not worth holding an order. A 9 speed transmission simply isn't important enough and quite frankly the 7 speed is quite good on the 2013 models. I can't compare the old E-Class transmission as I only know the current S and SL class ones.
It was a much more dramatic update when MB moved the 221 from a slow naturally aspirated engine to a higher powered twin turbo engine. Those buying the old engine model were screwed to be sure.

The other issue is the one of pricing and reliability. First year gremlins still exist, but less so than before. Friends that bought the new SL in 2012 had zero issues, so it is possible to have reliable cars from the get-go.
I expect no huge discounts until November, so pricing will definitely be higher. While I look for great value, I don't need $20k off sticker if the other conditions are right (money factor etc.).

That said, the 221 S-Class is a beautiful car that has has been cheap for over a year now (at least $15-$20k off) and they had special 18 months gap leases to bridge to the new model.

I my view that's a win-win. Pick what you like, but I think the whole conversation is completely pre-mature. Until we have 2 real cars to compare from the driver seat, who is to say what is worth a $200 difference is monthly lease payments?

joshg1001

god that video about designing the S class gives me goosebumps.

cookstar

cookstar

-NeObLaZtEr-

It feels very strange to watch this video after seeing so many of the W222, this is what this car started off as. Automatic seats were an innovation, the W222 has more controls for the seat than its great-grandaddy had for the whole car...

K-A

W126 will always be king and every S Class after it benchmarked against it during its time. I.e there's no greater compliment to any S than someone dubbing it "The Next W126". It's like the Michael Jordan of luxury sedans.

ajm0623

+1 * (infinity * infinity) ^ (infinity * infinity) !!!!!!!!!!!!

cookstar