Be CAUTION those with pulley upgrade..............
06-22-2002, 01:15 AM
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99' SLK 230 & 01' CLK 430
Be CAUTION those with pulley upgrade..............
I decided to write this after I had my car dynoed 3 times to let all of you understand what you are doing to your engine. For those of you who’s installed S/C pulley kit in your car, I would really recommend you to have your car dyno and understand what’s going on inside the engine rather then just take the manufacture words for it. I’m not saying that the manufacture lies to you but some of them are from different part of world where the elevation and temperature are different from where we live. So just because the test was done there, it does not mean it will be good in other parts of the worlds, and not to mention fuel rating too.
I heard a lot about people when dyno their car, that some people are getting 10-20 hp different from other. Well, let me be the second person to tell you that, not all dyno machines are the same. I for one, find that out myself when I got my baseline dynoed on a Dynomax machine. To my surprised, I only got 140 hp / 168 lb/ft torque. I suspected that something might be wrong with this dyno machine. But anyhow, the air/fuel was from 11.5:1 to 12.5:1 through out the power band range. It running a little bit “rich” but this is the way the manufacture like it because it keeps the engine running cool.
After I installed the alloy pulley kit, I decided to dyno (yes, the same Dynomax machine….lol…because I already pay for it) it again to see how much hp/tq. gain I get and what air/fuel is like. To my surprised, I was only partial happy because I gain 160 hp and 211 lb/ft torque (baseline 140hp/168 lb/ft) but the air/fuel ratio was at 14.9:1 to 13.5:1. It riches up a little bit on the top end power but this is still not good at all. A complete burn combustion engine air/fuel ratio is 14.7:1, which mean that this is where you make the most power but you are also at the limit line where the heat are beginning to tear down your engine in a long run. It kind like lower your car. If you want the look then you’ll loose the smooth ride. I didn’t believe that my engine was running so lean so I blamed it on the dyno for inaccurate info…lol.
Today, I decided to do a third dyno test but this time, I dynoed it on a Dynojet and to my surprised again. I got 180 hp and 205-lb/ft torque (another 20 hp gain and a loss of 6 lb/ft torque compared to the second dyno test I did on a Dynomax machine). But what I was hoping not to see was still there and that was the air/fuel ratio still EXACTS the same as the second dyno test, “lean” !!!
I question Vadim about Kleemann spec. (192 hp/ 211 lb-ft/tq gain ) and he said that because the elevation and better grade fuel play a very importance roll and I’m 100% agreed to that.
I also talk to **** owner of Dynospotracing about their S/C pulley (smaller) and he said that he saw 11.6 boost on his kit (Kleemann 9.5-10 of boost). He also told me that, without GIAC chip, the engine is running lean just like mine. But with GIAC chip, they able to reduces the air/fuel ratio to 13.1:1 to 14.1:1 and that’s the best they can do. Which is ok because, you can’t expect to gain lot power and still run rich like factory design without changing the whole fuel injection system like, injector, fuel regulator, fuel pump etc.
My final though, even those my engine is running “lean”, I still going to keep the pulley because I love the power and there’s way to fit the problem with GAIC chip. I didn’t writes this to say that any pulley kit is no good but just to let you guys be caution and dyno the car to find out for yourself and fix the problem if any. Thank you.
I heard a lot about people when dyno their car, that some people are getting 10-20 hp different from other. Well, let me be the second person to tell you that, not all dyno machines are the same. I for one, find that out myself when I got my baseline dynoed on a Dynomax machine. To my surprised, I only got 140 hp / 168 lb/ft torque. I suspected that something might be wrong with this dyno machine. But anyhow, the air/fuel was from 11.5:1 to 12.5:1 through out the power band range. It running a little bit “rich” but this is the way the manufacture like it because it keeps the engine running cool.
After I installed the alloy pulley kit, I decided to dyno (yes, the same Dynomax machine….lol…because I already pay for it) it again to see how much hp/tq. gain I get and what air/fuel is like. To my surprised, I was only partial happy because I gain 160 hp and 211 lb/ft torque (baseline 140hp/168 lb/ft) but the air/fuel ratio was at 14.9:1 to 13.5:1. It riches up a little bit on the top end power but this is still not good at all. A complete burn combustion engine air/fuel ratio is 14.7:1, which mean that this is where you make the most power but you are also at the limit line where the heat are beginning to tear down your engine in a long run. It kind like lower your car. If you want the look then you’ll loose the smooth ride. I didn’t believe that my engine was running so lean so I blamed it on the dyno for inaccurate info…lol.
Today, I decided to do a third dyno test but this time, I dynoed it on a Dynojet and to my surprised again. I got 180 hp and 205-lb/ft torque (another 20 hp gain and a loss of 6 lb/ft torque compared to the second dyno test I did on a Dynomax machine). But what I was hoping not to see was still there and that was the air/fuel ratio still EXACTS the same as the second dyno test, “lean” !!!
I question Vadim about Kleemann spec. (192 hp/ 211 lb-ft/tq gain ) and he said that because the elevation and better grade fuel play a very importance roll and I’m 100% agreed to that.
I also talk to **** owner of Dynospotracing about their S/C pulley (smaller) and he said that he saw 11.6 boost on his kit (Kleemann 9.5-10 of boost). He also told me that, without GIAC chip, the engine is running lean just like mine. But with GIAC chip, they able to reduces the air/fuel ratio to 13.1:1 to 14.1:1 and that’s the best they can do. Which is ok because, you can’t expect to gain lot power and still run rich like factory design without changing the whole fuel injection system like, injector, fuel regulator, fuel pump etc.
My final though, even those my engine is running “lean”, I still going to keep the pulley because I love the power and there’s way to fit the problem with GAIC chip. I didn’t writes this to say that any pulley kit is no good but just to let you guys be caution and dyno the car to find out for yourself and fix the problem if any. Thank you.
06-22-2002, 07:20 AM
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Mercedes 230K, 430ML
Linh,
I have an H&S pulley (albeit with Vaeth intake/MAS mod to eliminate the 'black' hole) that generates about 11.5 psi (or 0.8 bar) peak pressure as well, plus GIAC chip. Now, effectively doubling peak pressure will increase air temp at compressor outlet by approx. 20C so the next step will be to install a VEATH intecooler - that's probably a better way to ensure that the engine runs 'cool'.
I have an H&S pulley (albeit with Vaeth intake/MAS mod to eliminate the 'black' hole) that generates about 11.5 psi (or 0.8 bar) peak pressure as well, plus GIAC chip. Now, effectively doubling peak pressure will increase air temp at compressor outlet by approx. 20C so the next step will be to install a VEATH intecooler - that's probably a better way to ensure that the engine runs 'cool'.
06-22-2002, 11:44 AM
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99' SLK 230 & 01' CLK 430
Thomasrolfstrac,
I agreed! I'm in the stage of getting the intercooler make for me by Spearco too but it look like i will need the GIAC chip first, now. Have you dyno your car lately? I think that when we mods our's car, it also worth spend money to install the air/fuel ratio gauge or EGT (exhaust gas temp). Any one of this gauge you install, will tell you exactly what going on inside your engine.
Wow, i though that i won't spend anymore money on the car but it look like i'll be spending at least another $1000 more ($500 Chip, $600 IC).
I agreed! I'm in the stage of getting the intercooler make for me by Spearco too but it look like i will need the GIAC chip first, now. Have you dyno your car lately? I think that when we mods our's car, it also worth spend money to install the air/fuel ratio gauge or EGT (exhaust gas temp). Any one of this gauge you install, will tell you exactly what going on inside your engine.
Wow, i though that i won't spend anymore money on the car but it look like i'll be spending at least another $1000 more ($500 Chip, $600 IC).
06-22-2002, 02:38 PM
#6
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Did you disconnect the battery to allow the computer to reset and relearn the A/F curve? It takes some time to learn the curve just like it takes time to set the adaptive accelerator pedal.
06-22-2002, 07:33 PM
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99' SLK 230 & 01' CLK 430
Yes, i did. Actually, i was the first person to tell everyone to disconnect the battery after every mods. I've been drive around for weeks now. I'm not sure if the 98-99 Slk 230 ECU has the learn adapter like the newer ECU, so it properly max out.
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06-23-2002, 03:10 AM
#8
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Kleemann makes the pulley for the older SLKs the same diameter as on the newer SLKs and C-Coupes. This diameter is at it's limit on the newer motors because of interference from the waterpump pulley but on the older motors there is room for more. This is why the Vaeth and H&S pullies produce more boost on the SLKs because they are larger. Also the Dynospot S/C pulley does too. Of course with more boost comes more problems and that's why Vaeth requires 94 octane or 98 RON Euro gas (good luck finding that in California). Also I don't think the ECU on the older SLKs is as adaptive as on the newer motors so it doesn't eventually adapt to the conditions and remap it's ignition curve and fuel like the news claim to. That's why it's probably a good idea to chip those cars like Dynospot encourages to so that you get the most power out of your pulley investment and don't damage your engine. Vaeth even includes a fuel regulator that probably tricks the ECU into delivering more fuel. On the newer motors like my Coupe, I don't know yet. I want to drive my car around for a while and then get a dyno to see if there are any problems like lean conditions or pinging. Of course that would apply to all the pulley kits but may be a local issue to California where gasoline is watered down and 91 octane at best.
06-23-2002, 09:20 AM
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Re: Be CAUTION those with pulley upgrade..............
Originally posted by linh
I decided to write this after I had my car dynoed 3 times to let all of you understand what you are doing to your engine. For those of you who’s installed S/C pulley kit in your car, I would really recommend you to have your car dyno and understand what’s going on inside the engine rather then just take the manufacture words for it. I’m not saying that the manufacture lies to you but some of them are from different part of world where the elevation and temperature are different from where we live. So just because the test was done there, it does not mean it will be good in other parts of the worlds, and not to mention fuel rating too.
I heard a lot about people when dyno their car, that some people are getting 10-20 hp different from other. Well, let me be the second person to tell you that, not all dyno machines are the same. I for one, find that out myself when I got my baseline dynoed on a Dynomax machine. To my surprised, I only got 140 hp / 168 lb/ft torque. I suspected that something might be wrong with this dyno machine. But anyhow, the air/fuel was from 11.5:1 to 12.5:1 through out the power band range. It running a little bit “rich” but this is the way the manufacture like it because it keeps the engine running cool.
Remember to that engine tolerances are about 5%. Also different break-in and total mileage can vary from car to car.
After I installed the alloy pulley kit, I decided to dyno (yes, the same Dynomax machine….lol…because I already pay for it) it again to see how much hp/tq. gain I get and what air/fuel is like. To my surprised, I was only partial happy because I gain 160 hp and 211 lb/ft torque (baseline 140hp/168 lb/ft) but the air/fuel ratio was at 14.9:1 to 13.5:1. It riches up a little bit on the top end power but this is still not good at all. A complete burn combustion engine air/fuel ratio is 14.7:1, which mean that this is where you make the most power but you are also at the limit line where the heat are beginning to tear down your engine in a long run. It kind like lower your car. If you want the look then you’ll loose the smooth ride. I didn’t believe that my engine was running so lean so I blamed it on the dyno for inaccurate info…lol.
Here is a link that will educate/answer some of the above questions. Most power is not made at 14.7:1(stoichiometric) wich is more for emissions.
Today, I decided to do a third dyno test but this time, I dynoed it on a Dynojet and to my surprised again. I got 180 hp and 205-lb/ft torque (another 20 hp gain and a loss of 6 lb/ft torque compared to the second dyno test I did on a Dynomax machine). But what I was hoping not to see was still there and that was the air/fuel ratio still EXACTS the same as the second dyno test, “lean” !!!
I am not familar with the Dynomax dyno, but would be happy with numbers from a 248C. Remember too that the engines cooling capacity was designed for a stock motor. When you start modifying it the more thermal capacity is used. Pick up a copy of the latest copy of european car magazine and take a look at the Audi S4 build up. Just with a chip and exhaust modifications they did dyno runs once a minute and lost something like 12-15 horsepower per minute due to heat soak. This was done on "**** gas" as Vadim puts it. If you wanted to dyno at the most consistant then let the car idle on the dyno until the fans come on. They dyno when they shut off. It will not yield the best peak numbers.
I question Vadim about Kleemann spec. (192 hp/ 211 lb-ft/tq gain ) and he said that because the elevation and better grade fuel play a very importance roll and I’m 100% agreed to that.
I also talk to **** owner of Dynospotracing about their S/C pulley (smaller) and he said that he saw 11.6 boost on his kit (Kleemann 9.5-10 of boost). He also told me that, without GIAC chip, the engine is running lean just like mine. But with GIAC chip, they able to reduces the air/fuel ratio to 13.1:1 to 14.1:1 and that’s the best they can do. Which is ok because, you can’t expect to gain lot power and still run rich like factory design without changing the whole fuel injection system like, injector, fuel regulator, fuel pump etc.
My final though, even those my engine is running “lean”, I still going to keep the pulley because I love the power and there’s way to fit the problem with GAIC chip. I didn’t writes this to say that any pulley kit is no good but just to let you guys be caution and dyno the car to find out for yourself and fix the problem if any. Thank you.
I decided to write this after I had my car dynoed 3 times to let all of you understand what you are doing to your engine. For those of you who’s installed S/C pulley kit in your car, I would really recommend you to have your car dyno and understand what’s going on inside the engine rather then just take the manufacture words for it. I’m not saying that the manufacture lies to you but some of them are from different part of world where the elevation and temperature are different from where we live. So just because the test was done there, it does not mean it will be good in other parts of the worlds, and not to mention fuel rating too.
I heard a lot about people when dyno their car, that some people are getting 10-20 hp different from other. Well, let me be the second person to tell you that, not all dyno machines are the same. I for one, find that out myself when I got my baseline dynoed on a Dynomax machine. To my surprised, I only got 140 hp / 168 lb/ft torque. I suspected that something might be wrong with this dyno machine. But anyhow, the air/fuel was from 11.5:1 to 12.5:1 through out the power band range. It running a little bit “rich” but this is the way the manufacture like it because it keeps the engine running cool.
Remember to that engine tolerances are about 5%. Also different break-in and total mileage can vary from car to car.
After I installed the alloy pulley kit, I decided to dyno (yes, the same Dynomax machine….lol…because I already pay for it) it again to see how much hp/tq. gain I get and what air/fuel is like. To my surprised, I was only partial happy because I gain 160 hp and 211 lb/ft torque (baseline 140hp/168 lb/ft) but the air/fuel ratio was at 14.9:1 to 13.5:1. It riches up a little bit on the top end power but this is still not good at all. A complete burn combustion engine air/fuel ratio is 14.7:1, which mean that this is where you make the most power but you are also at the limit line where the heat are beginning to tear down your engine in a long run. It kind like lower your car. If you want the look then you’ll loose the smooth ride. I didn’t believe that my engine was running so lean so I blamed it on the dyno for inaccurate info…lol.
Here is a link that will educate/answer some of the above questions. Most power is not made at 14.7:1(stoichiometric) wich is more for emissions.
Today, I decided to do a third dyno test but this time, I dynoed it on a Dynojet and to my surprised again. I got 180 hp and 205-lb/ft torque (another 20 hp gain and a loss of 6 lb/ft torque compared to the second dyno test I did on a Dynomax machine). But what I was hoping not to see was still there and that was the air/fuel ratio still EXACTS the same as the second dyno test, “lean” !!!
I am not familar with the Dynomax dyno, but would be happy with numbers from a 248C. Remember too that the engines cooling capacity was designed for a stock motor. When you start modifying it the more thermal capacity is used. Pick up a copy of the latest copy of european car magazine and take a look at the Audi S4 build up. Just with a chip and exhaust modifications they did dyno runs once a minute and lost something like 12-15 horsepower per minute due to heat soak. This was done on "**** gas" as Vadim puts it. If you wanted to dyno at the most consistant then let the car idle on the dyno until the fans come on. They dyno when they shut off. It will not yield the best peak numbers.
I question Vadim about Kleemann spec. (192 hp/ 211 lb-ft/tq gain ) and he said that because the elevation and better grade fuel play a very importance roll and I’m 100% agreed to that.
I also talk to **** owner of Dynospotracing about their S/C pulley (smaller) and he said that he saw 11.6 boost on his kit (Kleemann 9.5-10 of boost). He also told me that, without GIAC chip, the engine is running lean just like mine. But with GIAC chip, they able to reduces the air/fuel ratio to 13.1:1 to 14.1:1 and that’s the best they can do. Which is ok because, you can’t expect to gain lot power and still run rich like factory design without changing the whole fuel injection system like, injector, fuel regulator, fuel pump etc.
My final though, even those my engine is running “lean”, I still going to keep the pulley because I love the power and there’s way to fit the problem with GAIC chip. I didn’t writes this to say that any pulley kit is no good but just to let you guys be caution and dyno the car to find out for yourself and fix the problem if any. Thank you.
Here is another link:
http://www.thrashercharged.com/L67_htm/new_cooler.shtm
