Proposal for Adam (HPS) and Brad (Evosport)
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 35,855
Likes: 3
From: Southern CA
Originally posted by slk320
Please correct your self nukblazi. www.bnzsport.com did not "close" any threads, they just didn't take your attitute of Pro KLEEMAN = anti everything else aswelcomed as they do here.
I believe the management of bnzsport.com wants to avoid making the all out flame wars that could be seen here
As most participating members on this board are also active members on the other board, we have a lot of cross discussions and threads that are commented on from both groups and neither board actively "locks" or seeks to "close" threads just because they are full of garbage and personal insults (like you brought against Hank)
Please correct your self nukblazi. www.bnzsport.com did not "close" any threads, they just didn't take your attitute of Pro KLEEMAN = anti everything else aswelcomed as they do here.
I believe the management of bnzsport.com wants to avoid making the all out flame wars that could be seen here
As most participating members on this board are also active members on the other board, we have a lot of cross discussions and threads that are commented on from both groups and neither board actively "locks" or seeks to "close" threads just because they are full of garbage and personal insults (like you brought against Hank)
At MBWorld, free speech is encouraged. Respect is requested to all members, but sponsors are not given the ability to hide behind their donations. The only difference in membership privileges is that sponsors are able solicit sales. This is one of the reasons why we have grown to almost 9,000 members, and we have no intentions of changing this policy.
Nevertheless, let's keep this thread on topic with DC's initial intentions. If you wish to discuss something else, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.
Thanks,
Ben
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 206
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From: Oahu, HI / Huntington Beach, CA
MB SL55, MB S55, Porsche 997.1, BMW M6, BMW X5, Audi B8 S4
To All Particpants of This Post
Unfortunately, Adam (HPS) has declined to accept the proposal for this event. He has sent me two emails to address his reasons for not participating. I considered posting Adam's reason for choosing not to participate but decided it is really Adam's responsibility to do so. Although, I am very disappointed in his decision, Adam addressed me with respect and I will show the same respect towards him. Hopefully, my position is understood and accepted by the MBWorld members.
I want to thank all the board members for conducting themselves in a courteous and professional manner. We had some borderline posts but that was a huge improvement over prior posts
I want to send a note of thanks to JamE55 and Timster for volunteering to help pull the events off. Your unselfish actions to help the board help build a positive sense of community on this board.
Brad & Ben (Evosport) and Brandon (Kleemann) your positive participation gave us hope that there could possibly be a series of events that would be fun and productive for both the MBworld members and the companies involved.
My hope is that we all work together to make an event such as the one proposed happen in the future.
Thanks again for giving this impossible proposal a chance.
DC
I want to thank all the board members for conducting themselves in a courteous and professional manner. We had some borderline posts but that was a huge improvement over prior posts
I want to send a note of thanks to JamE55 and Timster for volunteering to help pull the events off. Your unselfish actions to help the board help build a positive sense of community on this board.
Brad & Ben (Evosport) and Brandon (Kleemann) your positive participation gave us hope that there could possibly be a series of events that would be fun and productive for both the MBworld members and the companies involved.
My hope is that we all work together to make an event such as the one proposed happen in the future.
Thanks again for giving this impossible proposal a chance.
DC
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
From: GA
1999 ML 430, BMW R1100s
DC.
If you really want to pull something like this together, why not invite Brabus, Renntech, Kleemann, and HPS to meet in a central, controlled environment and either dyno cars, or better yet, DRAG RACE them after a spirited drive.
Just a thought.
If you really want to pull something like this together, why not invite Brabus, Renntech, Kleemann, and HPS to meet in a central, controlled environment and either dyno cars, or better yet, DRAG RACE them after a spirited drive.
Just a thought.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 206
Likes: 0
From: Oahu, HI / Huntington Beach, CA
MB SL55, MB S55, Porsche 997.1, BMW M6, BMW X5, Audi B8 S4
Originally posted by benzmac
DC.
If you really want to pull something like this together, why not invite Brabus, Renntech, Kleemann, and HPS to meet in a central, controlled environment and either dyno cars, or better yet, DRAG RACE them after a spirited drive.
Just a thought.
DC.
If you really want to pull something like this together, why not invite Brabus, Renntech, Kleemann, and HPS to meet in a central, controlled environment and either dyno cars, or better yet, DRAG RACE them after a spirited drive.
Just a thought.
To get some experience we had an event called Neowerkes 2k2 at the California Speedway It was a European car show, vendor displays, modeling expo and drag race. With the economy in the dumps and with the Iraq war pending at the time, the Directors of Neowerkes have decided to just do small events in 2003. We may see a show with the elements of the first show plus maybe an autocross type of event...2004 may be a fun year.
While on business, I sometimes fly through your part of the US. I'd love to drop by to see what's going on in your shop. Email me sometime.
Thanks for your thoughts,
DC
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,012
Likes: 1
From: Abingdon, MD
Originally posted by Mach430
If you have a question about nukblazi or any other member's sentiments towards any tuner, read through some of the other recent posts. Nukblazi was actually defending them a few weeks ago!
At MBWorld, free speech is encouraged. Respect is requested to all members, but sponsors are not given the ability to hide behind their donations. The only difference in membership privileges is that sponsors are able solicit sales. This is one of the reasons why we have grown to almost 9,000 members, and we have no intentions of changing this policy.
Nevertheless, let's keep this thread on topic with DC's initial intentions. If you wish to discuss something else, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.
Thanks,
Ben
If you have a question about nukblazi or any other member's sentiments towards any tuner, read through some of the other recent posts. Nukblazi was actually defending them a few weeks ago!
At MBWorld, free speech is encouraged. Respect is requested to all members, but sponsors are not given the ability to hide behind their donations. The only difference in membership privileges is that sponsors are able solicit sales. This is one of the reasons why we have grown to almost 9,000 members, and we have no intentions of changing this policy.
Nevertheless, let's keep this thread on topic with DC's initial intentions. If you wish to discuss something else, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.
Thanks,
Ben
Last edited by nukblazi; May 12, 2003 at 01:37 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,012
Likes: 1
From: Abingdon, MD
Originally posted by slk320
Please correct your self nukblazi. www.bnzsport.com did not "close" any threads, they just didn't take your attitute of Pro KLEEMAN = anti everything else aswelcomed as they do here.
I believe the management of bnzsport.com wants to avoid making the all out flame wars that could be seen here
As most participating members on this board are also active members on the other board, we have a lot of cross discussions and threads that are commented on from both groups and neither board actively "locks" or seeks to "close" threads just because they are full of garbage and personal insults (like you brought against Hank)
Please correct your self nukblazi. www.bnzsport.com did not "close" any threads, they just didn't take your attitute of Pro KLEEMAN = anti everything else aswelcomed as they do here.
I believe the management of bnzsport.com wants to avoid making the all out flame wars that could be seen here
As most participating members on this board are also active members on the other board, we have a lot of cross discussions and threads that are commented on from both groups and neither board actively "locks" or seeks to "close" threads just because they are full of garbage and personal insults (like you brought against Hank)
Please see the two closed threads if you are interested. My last post is here , the thread says it all, but I think it ends on the right note making a very key point!!!!
I am pro-kleemann SC and lightweight flywheel for my car! I am pro-kleeman and evosport for their time and respect towards me even though I have never prchased anything from either of them. I am far from anti-everything else as nothing else on my car will be from kleemann. I am anti-dumb@ss squealing on the boards because they didn't get what they want and didn't know what to expect.
The people in the pulley thread by Facexxx didn't even read the posts correctly before they jump on the very bnzsport-like mbworld and kleemann bashing.
insert rant in my typical style here. Be sure to include as many 0, 3, !, #, etc. so bad words are not "*"ed out.
Thanks for your time SLK320
Please do look back at my other posts on this topic. I've messed with Adam here and there, but for the most part, I have over extended myself trying to help out and support and encourage him. More constructively then most, but to my regret, just as ineffectively!I discussed my frustrations regarding the closing of the threads with Humpty06. To my further disappointment, s/he did not share my sentiment that other members may have wanted to discuss Hank's stance now that some addition information regarding his expectations, depth of knowledge, and lack of time to "tinker" with his car (learn more about his car) had been brought up.
Last edited by nukblazi; May 12, 2003 at 02:00 AM.
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 930
Likes: 0
Re: To All Particpants of This Post
Originally posted by DC@neowerkes
Unfortunately, Adam (HPS) has declined to accept the proposal for this event. He has sent me two emails to address his reasons for not participating. I considered posting Adam's reason for choosing not to participate but decided it is really Adam's responsibility to do so. Although, I am very disappointed in his decision, Adam addressed me with respect and I will show the same respect towards him. Hopefully, my position is understood and accepted by the MBWorld members.
I want to thank all the board members for conducting themselves in a courteous and professional manner. We had some borderline posts but that was a huge improvement over prior posts
I want to send a note of thanks to JamE55 and Timster for volunteering to help pull the events off. Your unselfish actions to help the board help build a positive sense of community on this board.
Brad & Ben (Evosport) and Brandon (Kleemann) your positive participation gave us hope that there could possibly be a series of events that would be fun and productive for both the MBworld members and the companies involved.
My hope is that we all work together to make an event such as the one proposed happen in the future.
Thanks again for giving this impossible proposal a chance.
DC
Unfortunately, Adam (HPS) has declined to accept the proposal for this event. He has sent me two emails to address his reasons for not participating. I considered posting Adam's reason for choosing not to participate but decided it is really Adam's responsibility to do so. Although, I am very disappointed in his decision, Adam addressed me with respect and I will show the same respect towards him. Hopefully, my position is understood and accepted by the MBWorld members.
I want to thank all the board members for conducting themselves in a courteous and professional manner. We had some borderline posts but that was a huge improvement over prior posts
I want to send a note of thanks to JamE55 and Timster for volunteering to help pull the events off. Your unselfish actions to help the board help build a positive sense of community on this board.
Brad & Ben (Evosport) and Brandon (Kleemann) your positive participation gave us hope that there could possibly be a series of events that would be fun and productive for both the MBworld members and the companies involved.
My hope is that we all work together to make an event such as the one proposed happen in the future.
Thanks again for giving this impossible proposal a chance.
DC
KLEEMANN USA is willing to participate in any future events this board and its members may put together.
Thanks to DC for trying to co-ordinate this event.
Super Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 750
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From: Weddington, NC
S600 Coupe. 560SEC, E55
I'm sure it will be the same old run around smoke and mirrors pseudomarketing drivel we've been hearing here from day one. If you want to sell your product, stop being evasive and put up or shut up. Answer the direct questions that have been asked and allow your product to be tested directly by third parties with no dog in the fight. You guys remind me of Joe Isuzu.
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Almost a Member!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
From: Orlando, FL
Hmm, seems this comparison would be a little one sided don't you think? I know the HPS system comes in around 10K installed and the Kleemann system is roughly 20K installed. How in the world would you accurately compare the two different units? I build a S/C system for my Viper clients that isn't intercooled and produces 700= rear wheel horsepower which is roughly 20K while my competition sells a system that is intercooled and sells for 55k, but produces almost 1k rear wheel horsepower. Both systems are reliable, yet at the track, both systems run low 10's in the quarter mile. Would that mean my competitors system is the better purchase? Maybe, maybe not. I guess it depends on the level of performance your trying to attain and the amount of money you'r willing to spend getting there. I'm not trying to incite a flame war, just trying to get a message and possibly a point across. BTW, I'm new here so lets play nice please.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 35,855
Likes: 3
From: Southern CA
There is a lot of missing information here that we were hoping to solve through the comparitive dynos. No one is disputing which system makes more power, but issues like a/f ratios have been left unanswered for several months now. This would have been a great opportunity for HPS to prove themselves to the MBWorld community.
Almost a Member!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
From: Orlando, FL
Originally posted by benzmac
DC.
If you really want to pull something like this together, why not invite Brabus, Renntech, Kleemann, and HPS to meet in a central, controlled environment and either dyno cars, or better yet, DRAG RACE them after a spirited drive.
Just a thought.
DC.
If you really want to pull something like this together, why not invite Brabus, Renntech, Kleemann, and HPS to meet in a central, controlled environment and either dyno cars, or better yet, DRAG RACE them after a spirited drive.
Just a thought.
Almost a Member!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
From: Orlando, FL
Originally posted by Mach430
There is a lot of missing information here that we were hoping to solve through the comparitive dynos. No one is disputing which system makes more power, but issues like a/f ratios have been left unanswered for several months now. This would have been a great opportunity for HPS to prove themselves to the MBWorld community.
There is a lot of missing information here that we were hoping to solve through the comparitive dynos. No one is disputing which system makes more power, but issues like a/f ratios have been left unanswered for several months now. This would have been a great opportunity for HPS to prove themselves to the MBWorld community.
I keep my cast piston S/C cars roughly in the range of 11.5 to 12 on the dyno. Typically a 1/2 point (.5) lean gain can be seen while driving Vs what is seen on the dyno because of the matter of forced air Vs drawn air.
Almost a Member!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 52
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From: Orlando, FL
Originally posted by Mach430
Right, but this way we would be able to verify it.
Right, but this way we would be able to verify it.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,687
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From: Bay Area, CA
MacedoMS,
I understand why you would question the usefulness of dynoing 2 systems with sginificant differences in price and power, however, I believe that you were not privy (nor do I suggest that you would want to be) to a series of threads between HPS, MBworld members, Kleemann and other sponsors. In those threads, amongst other things, accusations were made about potentail dyno manipulation and the integrity of Kleemann's dyno results were questioned by HPS. Furtheremore, HPS had some questionable descriptions of their experience with a Kleemann Sced car. While we all know that the HPS system is substantially cheaper and does not have the power output of the Kleemann system, I think everyone got sick of the banter and wanted to see the 2 systems on a dyno and on the track to have 3rd party verifiable information on the 2 systems gathered through a controlled process. In the end, however, HPS just disappeared.
Slee
I understand why you would question the usefulness of dynoing 2 systems with sginificant differences in price and power, however, I believe that you were not privy (nor do I suggest that you would want to be) to a series of threads between HPS, MBworld members, Kleemann and other sponsors. In those threads, amongst other things, accusations were made about potentail dyno manipulation and the integrity of Kleemann's dyno results were questioned by HPS. Furtheremore, HPS had some questionable descriptions of their experience with a Kleemann Sced car. While we all know that the HPS system is substantially cheaper and does not have the power output of the Kleemann system, I think everyone got sick of the banter and wanted to see the 2 systems on a dyno and on the track to have 3rd party verifiable information on the 2 systems gathered through a controlled process. In the end, however, HPS just disappeared.
Slee
Almost a Member!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 52
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From: Orlando, FL
Interesting...I looked at the break down component wise of the HPS system, although I haven't looked at the Kleemann system components. Would anyone know where I could look at the parts used in their system? Additionally, what is the max verified torque that the Kleemann system produces? The reason for these questions is simply this, torque wins races, horsepower is for dyno queens. Thanks!
Last edited by MacedoMS; May 13, 2003 at 05:55 PM.
Almost a Member!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 52
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From: Orlando, FL
Originally posted by MacedoMS
Interesting...I looked at the break down component wise of the HPS system, although I haven't looked at the Kleemann system components. Would anyone know where I could look at the parts used in their system? Additionally, what is the max verified torque that the Kleemann system produces? The reason for these questions is simply this, torque wins races, horsepower is for dyno queens. Thanks!
Interesting...I looked at the break down component wise of the HPS system, although I haven't looked at the Kleemann system components. Would anyone know where I could look at the parts used in their system? Additionally, what is the max verified torque that the Kleemann system produces? The reason for these questions is simply this, torque wins races, horsepower is for dyno queens. Thanks!
**BUMP**
Any Pictures? Thanks!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,687
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From: Bay Area, CA
Adam has magically reappeared in the CLK55 thread... of course only to support his customer's testimonial. Nevertheless he did post a link to a CLK55 dyno:
http://www.myhps.com/clk55/dynoclk55.html
Take a look and compare for youself. Personally, I'm surprised at low the hp output is.
http://www.myhps.com/clk55/dynoclk55.html
Take a look and compare for youself. Personally, I'm surprised at low the hp output is.
Almost a Member!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 52
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From: Orlando, FL
Originally posted by Sleestack
Adam has magically reappeared in the CLK55 thread... of course only to support his customer's testimonial. Nevertheless he did post a link to a CLK55 dyno:
http://www.myhps.com/clk55/dynoclk55.html
Take a look and compare for youself. Personally, I'm surprised at low the hp output is.
Adam has magically reappeared in the CLK55 thread... of course only to support his customer's testimonial. Nevertheless he did post a link to a CLK55 dyno:
http://www.myhps.com/clk55/dynoclk55.html
Take a look and compare for youself. Personally, I'm surprised at low the hp output is.
Last edited by MacedoMS; May 15, 2003 at 05:22 PM.
MBWorld Founder
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,599
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From: Scottsdale (aka The Surface of the Sun)
Originally posted by MacedoMS
OK, first and foremost. The Mustang dyno is a great dyno to "tune" on, but the ultimate number needs to be derived on a Dynojet "inertia" dyno. Anyone with any performance knowledge knows this to be true and to base the numbers shown on the Mustang are negligible. Take that same car to a Dynojet facility and I bet you'll see a 40hp and 40 ft. lb. increase at the least. The Dynojet is considered the industry standard which is why all of the big players in this performance game utilize that tool. Adam, if you go to www.dynojet.com you'll be able to find a facility in your area, I'd recommend you do that then post the numbers. This holds true for the Kleemann system too, if they're basing their numbers on the Mustang I'd suggest they do the same. Lastly, both cars need to be dyno'd at the same facility and on the same day to dispel or quantify any differences. I'll jump off of my soap box now...
OK, first and foremost. The Mustang dyno is a great dyno to "tune" on, but the ultimate number needs to be derived on a Dynojet "inertia" dyno. Anyone with any performance knowledge knows this to be true and to base the numbers shown on the Mustang are negligible. Take that same car to a Dynojet facility and I bet you'll see a 40hp and 40 ft. lb. increase at the least. The Dynojet is considered the industry standard which is why all of the big players in this performance game utilize that tool. Adam, if you go to www.dynojet.com you'll be able to find a facility in your area, I'd recommend you do that then post the numbers. This holds true for the Kleemann system too, if they're basing their numbers on the Mustang I'd suggest they do the same. Lastly, both cars need to be dyno'd at the same facility and on the same day to dispel or quantify any differences. I'll jump off of my soap box now...
We have offered HPS the dyno for no charge about 100 times - they are afraid we would 'work' the numbers!! LOL
Thanks
brad
