Proposal for Adam (HPS) and Brad (Evosport)
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From: Oahu, HI / Huntington Beach, CA
MB SL55, MB S55, Porsche 997.1, BMW M6, BMW X5, Audi B8 S4
Proposal for Adam (HPS) and Brad (Evosport)
I would like to request that Adam and Brad provide CLK 430s with the HPS and Kleemann superchargers to participate in the following:
1) Dyno testing under the same conditions and day at an agreed upon 3rd party facility. Document and provide actual graphical data for performance comparision (HP, torque and a/f). A minimum of three runs for each car.
2) Run 3 one on one races at one of our 1/4 mile tracks. Post the results.
Please keep in mind, this board has endured a number of spotty threads involving discussions about HPS and Kleemann superchargers. I would ask that all users posting to this thread conduct themselves in a professional and respectful manner.
We could advertise the the day, time and place and make this a memorable event. This could be a positive event where the members could have a good time.
Adam and Brad,
What do you say? Let's do this soon.
Brandon (Kleemann)
You are more than welcomed to participate. Brad and Adam have shops in the local Southern California area so I addressed this proposal to them.
Board members,
Your thoughts please. Good idea, if so be encouraging and let Brad and Adam know. If not, please provide suggestions / ideas
Remember, professional and respectful posts please.
DC
1) Dyno testing under the same conditions and day at an agreed upon 3rd party facility. Document and provide actual graphical data for performance comparision (HP, torque and a/f). A minimum of three runs for each car.
2) Run 3 one on one races at one of our 1/4 mile tracks. Post the results.
Please keep in mind, this board has endured a number of spotty threads involving discussions about HPS and Kleemann superchargers. I would ask that all users posting to this thread conduct themselves in a professional and respectful manner.
We could advertise the the day, time and place and make this a memorable event. This could be a positive event where the members could have a good time.
Adam and Brad,
What do you say? Let's do this soon.
Brandon (Kleemann)
You are more than welcomed to participate. Brad and Adam have shops in the local Southern California area so I addressed this proposal to them.
Board members,
Your thoughts please. Good idea, if so be encouraging and let Brad and Adam know. If not, please provide suggestions / ideas
Remember, professional and respectful posts please.
DC
Former Vendor of MBWorld
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DC-
This sounds like a wonderful idea- one that has been suggested long ago by another board memeber who is even willing to pay for it himself.
I would add a few items to this list of this "program"- one being that the dynos lambda or A/F gage is calibrated or benchmarked before the testing. This is a simple process utilizing a known gas mixture.
The others are increase or not limit the number of dyno runs for each car, and somehow steward the fuel being used.
Count me in.
This sounds like a wonderful idea- one that has been suggested long ago by another board memeber who is even willing to pay for it himself.
I would add a few items to this list of this "program"- one being that the dynos lambda or A/F gage is calibrated or benchmarked before the testing. This is a simple process utilizing a known gas mixture.
The others are increase or not limit the number of dyno runs for each car, and somehow steward the fuel being used.
Count me in.
Thread Starter
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From: Oahu, HI / Huntington Beach, CA
MB SL55, MB S55, Porsche 997.1, BMW M6, BMW X5, Audi B8 S4
Originally posted by KLEEMANN
DC-
This sounds like a wonderful idea- one that has been suggested long ago by another board memeber who is even willing to pay for it himself.
I would add a few items to this list of this "program"- one being that the dynos lambda or A/F gage is calibrated or benchmarked before the testing. This is a simple process utilizing a known gas mixture.
The others are increase or not limit the number of dyno runs for each car, and somehow steward the fuel being used.
Count me in.
DC-
This sounds like a wonderful idea- one that has been suggested long ago by another board memeber who is even willing to pay for it himself.
I would add a few items to this list of this "program"- one being that the dynos lambda or A/F gage is calibrated or benchmarked before the testing. This is a simple process utilizing a known gas mixture.
The others are increase or not limit the number of dyno runs for each car, and somehow steward the fuel being used.
Count me in.
Yes, the two revisions identified in your post would seem to be fair revisions to the original proposal. Adding the appropriate benchmarking activity prior to the runs and an increase in the number of runs would build greater confidence in the data IMHO. Do you have a recommendation on the number of runs? We need to have an agreed upon number to put on the table for discussion with HPS.
Thanks for your reply and maintaining the cooperative spirit of this post.
Adam,
Your input please. Kleemann has requested two changes to the original proposal. Do you agree to the revisions? I would like to implement the changes with your concurrance. Do you have any suggested revisions?
Can we count on HPS to participate in this activity?
Thanks,
DC
Thread Starter
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Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Oahu, HI / Huntington Beach, CA
MB SL55, MB S55, Porsche 997.1, BMW M6, BMW X5, Audi B8 S4
Originally posted by 500AMG
Wonderful idea and very well written post. I look forward to the results.
Wonderful idea and very well written post. I look forward to the results.
Your input, as well as the other board members will be critical to the success of this proposal.
Thank you,
DC
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2003
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This is by far the best effort at civility seen on this topic thus far. HPS , I suggest that if you want to continue your exsistance in the Mercedes "elite" aftermarket supercharger makers, you MUST except this challange and take the leader head on.
If HPS refuses, we know where they stand as far as I am concerned.
If HPS refuses, we know where they stand as far as I am concerned.
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Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Abingdon, MD
Evosport and Kleemann have already put there product, time, and experience where their mouth is. We are just waiting on HPS.
Same base chassis
Same base motor
Supercharger performance mod only
Reps from all companies
Doors open to all that wish to attend
All of the above listed metrics recorded
This shouldn't be so complicated. End of story.
DC, good effort! Thank you.
Same base chassis
Same base motor
Supercharger performance mod only
Reps from all companies
Doors open to all that wish to attend
All of the above listed metrics recorded
This shouldn't be so complicated. End of story.
DC, good effort! Thank you.
Trending Topics
Former Vendor of MBWorld
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Originally posted by DC@neowerkes
Kleemann,
Yes, the two revisions identified in your post would seem to be fair revisions to the original proposal. Adding the appropriate benchmarking activity prior to the runs and an increase in the number of runs would build greater confidence in the data IMHO. Do you have a recommendation on the number of runs? We need to have an agreed upon number to put on the table for discussion with HPS.
Thanks for your reply and maintaining the cooperative spirit of this post.
Adam,
Your input please. Kleemann has requested two changes to the original proposal. Do you agree to the revisions? I would like to implement the changes with your concurrance. Do you have any suggested revisions?
Can we count on HPS to participate in this activity?
Thanks,
DC
Kleemann,
Yes, the two revisions identified in your post would seem to be fair revisions to the original proposal. Adding the appropriate benchmarking activity prior to the runs and an increase in the number of runs would build greater confidence in the data IMHO. Do you have a recommendation on the number of runs? We need to have an agreed upon number to put on the table for discussion with HPS.
Thanks for your reply and maintaining the cooperative spirit of this post.
Adam,
Your input please. Kleemann has requested two changes to the original proposal. Do you agree to the revisions? I would like to implement the changes with your concurrance. Do you have any suggested revisions?
Can we count on HPS to participate in this activity?
Thanks,
DC
Otherwise I am amenable to any other suggestions put forth by Adam as they will undoubtedly be, as my suggestions are, in the interest of fairness to all.
NOTE: I will be on the road from Sunday afternoon until Friday with a G55 Kompressor to Car and Driver Magazine in Michigan. I will try and check the net as I can, but cannot assure my day to day participation on this board until I return.
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Thread Starter
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From: Oahu, HI / Huntington Beach, CA
MB SL55, MB S55, Porsche 997.1, BMW M6, BMW X5, Audi B8 S4
Originally posted by KLEEMANN
The number of runs should be limited to the practicallity of time- perhaps 10 runs? There will be other issues surrounding the runs as well. KLEEMANN's SC system is a water to air intercooled one- I will insist on an appropriate fan to simualte as closely as possible the "road speed" achieved on the dyno runs. If we are testing in 4th gear (as it is slose to 1:1) we need to simulate upwards of 70MPH winds for the intercooler to behave as it would on the street. The fan will need to be in excess of 6,100 CFM.
Otherwise I am amenable to any other suggestions put forth by Adam as they will undoubtedly be, as my suggestions are, in the interest of fairness to all.
NOTE: I will be on the road from Sunday afternoon until Friday with a G55 Kompressor to Car and Driver Magazine in Michigan. I will try and check the net as I can, but cannot assure my day to day participation on this board until I return.
The number of runs should be limited to the practicallity of time- perhaps 10 runs? There will be other issues surrounding the runs as well. KLEEMANN's SC system is a water to air intercooled one- I will insist on an appropriate fan to simualte as closely as possible the "road speed" achieved on the dyno runs. If we are testing in 4th gear (as it is slose to 1:1) we need to simulate upwards of 70MPH winds for the intercooler to behave as it would on the street. The fan will need to be in excess of 6,100 CFM.
Otherwise I am amenable to any other suggestions put forth by Adam as they will undoubtedly be, as my suggestions are, in the interest of fairness to all.
NOTE: I will be on the road from Sunday afternoon until Friday with a G55 Kompressor to Car and Driver Magazine in Michigan. I will try and check the net as I can, but cannot assure my day to day participation on this board until I return.
I believe the requested revisions to the original proposal stand at three:
- The addition of benchmarking activities prior to the runs
- An increase to the number of runs per car from 3 to 10
- The use of a fan capable of simulating 70 mph+ (6,100 CFM+)
Please continue to help define and refine our event requirements. I understand you will be on the road with the G55 from Sunday afternoon through Friday. Hopefully we will get input from Adam (HPS) and continue to work towards making this event happen.
Adam,
Please note Kleemann's request. We await your input.
Thanks,
DC
Thread Starter
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From: Oahu, HI / Huntington Beach, CA
MB SL55, MB S55, Porsche 997.1, BMW M6, BMW X5, Audi B8 S4
Originally posted by otoupalik
all sounds good to me!
all sounds good to me!
You may want to contact Brandon (Kleemann) to coordinate your effort. Thanks for stepping up to the plate.
DC
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From: Oahu, HI / Huntington Beach, CA
MB SL55, MB S55, Porsche 997.1, BMW M6, BMW X5, Audi B8 S4
Originally posted by nukblazi
Evosport and Kleemann have already put there product, time, and experience where their mouth is. We are just waiting on HPS.
Same base chassis
Same base motor
Supercharger performance mod only
Reps from all companies
Doors open to all that wish to attend
All of the above listed metrics recorded
This shouldn't be so complicated. End of story.
DC, good effort! Thank you.
Evosport and Kleemann have already put there product, time, and experience where their mouth is. We are just waiting on HPS.
Same base chassis
Same base motor
Supercharger performance mod only
Reps from all companies
Doors open to all that wish to attend
All of the above listed metrics recorded
This shouldn't be so complicated. End of story.
DC, good effort! Thank you.
DC
Thread Starter
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 206
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From: Oahu, HI / Huntington Beach, CA
MB SL55, MB S55, Porsche 997.1, BMW M6, BMW X5, Audi B8 S4
Originally posted by JamE55
Think this is a great idea and hopefully will end the debate between the 2 tuners. I will participate in this event and hopefully Adam will agree to this.
Think this is a great idea and hopefully will end the debate between the 2 tuners. I will participate in this event and hopefully Adam will agree to this.
We need to have enough members present and participating in the events to add credibility. Thanks for your commitment. Would you be willing to volunteer during the activities if help is required? I'd like to start a voulunteer list of MBWorld members, would you like to be the first?
I understand we need Adams (HPS) to agree to participate and we need the dates identified. I'll probably ask for volunteers after we get the word from HPS and the dates.
Thanks,
DC
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From: CA, NV, CO
Originally posted by DC@neowerkes
JamE55,
We need to have enough members present and participating in the events to add credibility. Thanks for your commitment. Would you be willing to volunteer during the activities if help is required? I'd like to start a voulunteer list of MBWorld members, would you like to be the first
Thanks,
DC
JamE55,
We need to have enough members present and participating in the events to add credibility. Thanks for your commitment. Would you be willing to volunteer during the activities if help is required? I'd like to start a voulunteer list of MBWorld members, would you like to be the first
Thanks,
DC
Depends on what kind of help but yes. I can probably video tape it if you want. Also let me know in advance.
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From: Oahu, HI / Huntington Beach, CA
MB SL55, MB S55, Porsche 997.1, BMW M6, BMW X5, Audi B8 S4
Originally posted by otoupalik
I can also get major magazine coverage!
Thanks
Brad
I can also get major magazine coverage!
Thanks
Brad
Magazine coverage would be great.
Adam, Kleemann,
Your thoughts please. If you agree, we will work the magazine coverage into the event.
DC
Thread Starter
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From: Oahu, HI / Huntington Beach, CA
MB SL55, MB S55, Porsche 997.1, BMW M6, BMW X5, Audi B8 S4
Originally posted by JamE55
DC
Depends on what kind of help but yes. I can probably video tape it if you want. Also let me know in advance.
DC
Depends on what kind of help but yes. I can probably video tape it if you want. Also let me know in advance.
I appreciate volunteering your help and video coverage would be nice for the MB members not in attendance. I'll do my best to keep you informed.
I hope we pull this event off. There's a good positive vibe growing here.
DC
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A video tape would be wonderful...especially for the likes of us who are stuck on the east coast 
.
But before we jump the gun here...no word from HPS yet. They may not be willing to go under this type of scrutiny. Either way, no response or valid test, we (MBWorld members) will be able to see who the real players are.
.But before we jump the gun here...no word from HPS yet. They may not be willing to go under this type of scrutiny. Either way, no response or valid test, we (MBWorld members) will be able to see who the real players are.
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DC
Magazine coverage will be great, KLEEMANN has nothing to hide.
I see a lot of people starts getting involved in this, I think looking back on Adams behaviour, stop waisting more time untill there is
a confirmation from HPS / Adam. It will surprice me if he agrees to this.
Magazine coverage will be great, KLEEMANN has nothing to hide.
I see a lot of people starts getting involved in this, I think looking back on Adams behaviour, stop waisting more time untill there is
a confirmation from HPS / Adam. It will surprice me if he agrees to this.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Oahu, HI / Huntington Beach, CA
MB SL55, MB S55, Porsche 997.1, BMW M6, BMW X5, Audi B8 S4
Originally posted by Lucas
DC
Magazine coverage will be great, KLEEMANN has nothing to hide.
I see a lot of people starts getting involved in this, I think looking back on Adams behaviour, stop waisting more time untill there is
a confirmation from HPS / Adam. It will surprice me if he agrees to this.
DC
Magazine coverage will be great, KLEEMANN has nothing to hide.
I see a lot of people starts getting involved in this, I think looking back on Adams behaviour, stop waisting more time untill there is
a confirmation from HPS / Adam. It will surprice me if he agrees to this.
Thanks for your concern. This effort may not result in the events that I proposed. Yes, I realize the difficulties in making this happen.
IMHO, it is worth trying to pull this event off. Even with all the challenges involved. I have a very demanding schedule due to commitments beyond the board. I am probably spending the greatest amount of effort on this. I don't mind doing this. I would like to be a positive and contributing member to this board. All other parties involved have done so voluntarily.
We need a response from Adam (HPS) to go to the next step. Let's give him a chance. I hope to hear from him on Monday, a number of members only access the board from work.
Thanks,
DC
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Originally posted by DC@neowerkes
Brad,
Magazine coverage would be great.
Adam, Kleemann,
Your thoughts please. If you agree, we will work the magazine coverage into the event.
DC
Brad,
Magazine coverage would be great.
Adam, Kleemann,
Your thoughts please. If you agree, we will work the magazine coverage into the event.
DC
Magazine coverage would be great, I am all for it. Brad has some great contacts we should utilize them fully.
MBWorld Founder
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,599
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From: Scottsdale (aka The Surface of the Sun)
HPS claims to have a CLK55, so why don't we put that one up agains Tim's CLK55K?
They have publically stated that they have a CLK55, so this should make the comparsion easier!
Thanks
Brad
They have publically stated that they have a CLK55, so this should make the comparsion easier!
Thanks
Brad
