Engineered by AMG
08-05-2012, 06:11 PM
#1
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Mercedes C230 Sport Sedan
Engineered by AMG
Hey, Guys.
I read in Autoweek that Mercedes is coming out with a line of cars, or options, that fit between the standard MB and the AMG messaged cars. Apparently, MB is figuring out that many of us can't afford AMG cars, but are able to afford the next best thing - which isn't a standard MB.
If anyone is aware of what is going on, post a reply to fill us in. I am so disappointed in the gulf between the standard issue MB and the AMG cars. Why doesn't MB recognize many of us want a performance car that we can take to a track day and have fun with, but then drive it to work every day. It seems MB thinks everyone is over 70 and just wants techno-nannies to keep them between the lines. I want a car that is fun to drive! I do not want techno-nannies doing it for me - except for anti-lock brakes, they work faster than I can so they are okay.
What do the rest of you motor-heads think?
I read in Autoweek that Mercedes is coming out with a line of cars, or options, that fit between the standard MB and the AMG messaged cars. Apparently, MB is figuring out that many of us can't afford AMG cars, but are able to afford the next best thing - which isn't a standard MB.
If anyone is aware of what is going on, post a reply to fill us in. I am so disappointed in the gulf between the standard issue MB and the AMG cars. Why doesn't MB recognize many of us want a performance car that we can take to a track day and have fun with, but then drive it to work every day. It seems MB thinks everyone is over 70 and just wants techno-nannies to keep them between the lines. I want a car that is fun to drive! I do not want techno-nannies doing it for me - except for anti-lock brakes, they work faster than I can so they are okay.
What do the rest of you motor-heads think?
11-09-2012, 04:25 PM
#3
Well to be fair AMG models are designed to do what you asked in being capable of giving competitive fun on a track day as well as drive to work everyday (if you're a CEO). That's why the historical emphasis has been increase in bore/stroke and maintaining low engine speed drivability. A race only model is more along the lines of the classic muscle cars used to homologate touring racing models through the 60s-70s, cars which have trouble idling in traffic and generally poor low engine speed/soft driving characteristics.
Because AMG began as an independent company it is more like a comparison to Shelby and other independent mod shops, which take mass manufacturer components and re-engineer them to suit an exclusive market. These are essentially the same people who'd buy a Porsche Turbo or a Ferrari, but want something a little more unique or prefer a touring sedan body type.
Mercedes themselves didn't offer an off the shelf performance type per se (except in rare cases with terrific commitment), until they bought AMG. They engineered each luxury level model expertly and achieved what they considered performance orientation with every model as a standard. All their engines are high output, take for example a 280E mid market family sedan. At 185hp it's got roughly the same output as a contemporary local six, the Holden Torana GTR XU-1 race track homologation high performance coupe, the car that won the Bathurst touring car race against 351 clevelands. And this is the mid market family Mercedes of a contemporary production, for use as a shopping trolley. Their fours have contemporary six cylinder outputs and tow capabilities.
You wanted something a bit quicker, you bought one of the V8s, the 3.8-5.6 litre family in the 70s-80s S class are basically a detuned Le Mans engine.
I guess AMG's point was you could figuratively just about trip over a Mercedes engine with a spanner in your hand and unlock more power, it's that easy they're so good. The stock bottom end on an old M103 six will handle something like 600hp (as if you could ever actually get that kind of power, hard enough cracking 200 without a race build), although admitedly Mercedes has cited the 190 series as over-engineered for its market/price and they cut back a little on the C-class development expenditure...at first.
So aside from a few fairly exclusive exceptions Mercedes didn't really offer a "sport tuning" per se for the average model. This was left to the Shelby-like AMG company whom thankfully took their job very seriously and well engineered their aftermarket Mercedes range additions. Usually they started simply with a hefty bore/stroke increase and then massaged the package from there.
Even since buying AMG this has left a market gap for the sports retuning of the standard model range. Considering the qualitive features of any model at upper option ranges I would say this is really more about character than performance, shifting emphasis from dual driving modes of low/high engine speeds to a higher range tuning, intentionally drawing away from low engine speed characteristics for more emphasis on mid and upper range characteristics on basically the same engines. Sports engine tuning rather than just suspension tuning, as a common model option.
Again I would say this is more about driving character than performance per se. Optioning a more sporty feel and exhaust tone on basically the same car with fairly similar, already very good performance. This is more like a manufacturers tuning option than an AMG aftermarket rebuild, hence there is a market gap for it, particularly since the general domestic automotive markets have upped their game with qualitive engineering (and subsequent common outputs). I do sense Chrysler's influence here, but I don't think the old guard is entirely opposed to it.
Because AMG began as an independent company it is more like a comparison to Shelby and other independent mod shops, which take mass manufacturer components and re-engineer them to suit an exclusive market. These are essentially the same people who'd buy a Porsche Turbo or a Ferrari, but want something a little more unique or prefer a touring sedan body type.
Mercedes themselves didn't offer an off the shelf performance type per se (except in rare cases with terrific commitment), until they bought AMG. They engineered each luxury level model expertly and achieved what they considered performance orientation with every model as a standard. All their engines are high output, take for example a 280E mid market family sedan. At 185hp it's got roughly the same output as a contemporary local six, the Holden Torana GTR XU-1 race track homologation high performance coupe, the car that won the Bathurst touring car race against 351 clevelands. And this is the mid market family Mercedes of a contemporary production, for use as a shopping trolley. Their fours have contemporary six cylinder outputs and tow capabilities.
You wanted something a bit quicker, you bought one of the V8s, the 3.8-5.6 litre family in the 70s-80s S class are basically a detuned Le Mans engine.
I guess AMG's point was you could figuratively just about trip over a Mercedes engine with a spanner in your hand and unlock more power, it's that easy they're so good. The stock bottom end on an old M103 six will handle something like 600hp (as if you could ever actually get that kind of power, hard enough cracking 200 without a race build), although admitedly Mercedes has cited the 190 series as over-engineered for its market/price and they cut back a little on the C-class development expenditure...at first.
So aside from a few fairly exclusive exceptions Mercedes didn't really offer a "sport tuning" per se for the average model. This was left to the Shelby-like AMG company whom thankfully took their job very seriously and well engineered their aftermarket Mercedes range additions. Usually they started simply with a hefty bore/stroke increase and then massaged the package from there.
Even since buying AMG this has left a market gap for the sports retuning of the standard model range. Considering the qualitive features of any model at upper option ranges I would say this is really more about character than performance, shifting emphasis from dual driving modes of low/high engine speeds to a higher range tuning, intentionally drawing away from low engine speed characteristics for more emphasis on mid and upper range characteristics on basically the same engines. Sports engine tuning rather than just suspension tuning, as a common model option.
Again I would say this is more about driving character than performance per se. Optioning a more sporty feel and exhaust tone on basically the same car with fairly similar, already very good performance. This is more like a manufacturers tuning option than an AMG aftermarket rebuild, hence there is a market gap for it, particularly since the general domestic automotive markets have upped their game with qualitive engineering (and subsequent common outputs). I do sense Chrysler's influence here, but I don't think the old guard is entirely opposed to it.
