Shine

Check damage engines worth a lot more about tuning.
(1) The broken piston, you can see crack on the edge or partial
melt, those AMG 9.0: 1 pistons were cast made.
(2) deformed surface w/carbon indicates it works in rich fuel most of the time.
(3) Detonation destroy this modern MB V6 engine, PISTON broke(melt) first, crack pieces scratch the chamber wall come next.

MB broken engine happened one by one in cold winter days here in Taiwan.
I may have a few chances to look at them & study the root cause

jpb5151

Interesting. I wonder if the same thing happens in the colder parts of the U.S.

Chappy

Shine,

Were these stock AMG motors? Or tuned?

pocholin

Did that happen to your C32???

Shine

Chappy
They're tuned motors.
pocholin
Ne...I'm conservative of AMG further tuning, not cheap to fix AMG kompressored motor than ordinary MB motor :p
jpb5151
The Project shop told me that MB EMS is a very hi-end one
they put a lot tolerance to meet different weather.

Chappy

What did these folks do (tuning-wise) that put their C32 engine at risk for rich fuel running conditions? Was there a problem with poor fuel quality?

How many miles did they have on the engines before tuning and after tuning?

Thanks

MK899

Excatly what I wanted to ask!

Shine

Don't worry gentlemen.
None of them are C32, AMG engine is robust or those AMG maps
do support a few more boost.

Back to stock NA + K engines, some blow in colder days
I think airmass reach its limitation in high rpm range while
AMG map is easy with that.

speedybenz

Can you send some pics of the cylinder head and combustion chamber? Damaged parts?

thanks,

Jeff

Chappy

Any trouble with the non-AMG V8 with supercharger?

Shine

Speedybenz
Sorry, I'm not allowed to take pics there.
That's in Motec project shop, they're trying to rebuild those damaged W203 engines.

Chappy
So far so good,do play the boost & exhaust very carefully.
They're easy to run lean in WOT mode.

amgme

shine, i'm not quite following here.... what engine got damaged? a c32amg engine or something else?

thx.

Shine

No, they're Kleemann C32K motors actually.

Brandon @ Kleemann

This thread calls for an intervention-

A full picture is required here. In Taiwan its very popular to tweak or push the stock system. Most, if not all, of the hardcore C32K owners are using 66mm SC pulleys with an overdrive crank pulley. I have heard stories from owners who are proud to proclaim they are running 1.2 bar on a 10:1 CR engine! These parts are made by third parties even after the strict warnings than the engine will not tolerate it. Couple this with the use of ECU tunings designed by other companies for N/A cars (advance in IGN timing) and the future is easy to see.

This is using the product outside its design criteria. So now the thread is KLEEMANN SC 3.2 engines are blowing up? Ask about systems that are being used as they were designed to be used, not "engineered" by third parties to run way outside safe limits.

So now the enevitable has happened- the engines are damaged from too high boost pressure with no change in CR, fueling, ECU etc etc, and its KLEEMANNs fault?

P L E A S E

Shine

No, this thread is talking of damage engines.

Those blown motors were using Kleemann S/C, more boost isn't
that critical if well managed, detonation kill them in a sudden.
Thosewho have no claim on warranty & take the risk themselves.

I don't think the S/C itself is the problem, either.


I've never heard of 1.2 bar at 10:1 CR
and THEY'RE proud of it.......

Chappy

Glad to hear you aren't having any trouble with the V8s.

BTW, Shine....great video of your CLK50K passing the C32

Shine

Thanks, Chappy.

Here's a quote from a 350Z enthusiast, they're moving toward E55AMG level in rwhp at 0.7 bar, H/W work is no longer issues to them.

the ECU is by far the biggest thing in the way of high-powered 350Zs, IMO. The engine parts are there, superchargers, turbos are available, etc. Everything is in place but engine management.

This is the problem we face with a car that uses "cutting-edge" technology like CAN and drive-by-wire (although this is new to the auto world, CAN and drive-by-wire are ancient technologies ).. but it can be overcome.. I just require a solution that enables me to tune the car myself.. and unfortunately, the F CON V doesn't allow for that.. so it's no longer a consideration, no matter how well it works

Shine

VQ35DE FI players are working on the boost related tuning
9~10 psi can be done & safe in a 10.3 CR 350Z.


Quote from there
**** a more complicated device
will utilize the existing FMU from Aeromotive(which must be dyno tuned to our supplied A/F ratios first!!!) and stock injectors and simply fine tune timing and fuel maps..This Stage will be benificial for 2 reasons..First by keeping your stock injectors and FMU , you can keep the car extremely drivable and reliable under most conditions and is plug and play!!
Second, .....will provide more HP at safer levels than just the FMU alone...gives the user adjustability of several parameters most likely going to be..Fuel,Timing and ignition...and has 2 maps(one for pump gas or street use and another for race fuel or race use)switchible either via a dash switch or lap top!!!!Not to mention full data logging and playback!!

**** a simpler device
knocking control & timing retard device is also available seperately, upto 20 degree max (MB ECU allows 12 max)
plus rpm based timing retard in spare (engage at over 5200 rpm for extremely protection.

Shine

Do we Mercedes enthusiasts are rich enough to buy everything that is complete tuned for us
and stay the brand complex all the time ?

m444

1.2 bar is equivalent to about 17.6psi of boost.

This can be done on a car with 10:1 compression, but not recommened.

Need good solid fuel delivery, with less than 12:1 AF/R at WOT (some tuners run at 10 AF/R at WOT), lots of timing retard and a good intercooler.

Anything above 0.7 bar (10psi) of boost requires great care.

Having quality tunning by an expert is critical for long engine life.

Here is someone running these levels of boost, 20psi, stock pistons, with success, but many have trouble duplicating his results:

http://www.alternativeauto.com/water...es/32v_lx.html

Don

Shine

Thanks !
I agree Kleemann S/C is highly integrated & efficient.
Uh, 1.2 bar is way too far even lower the CR, MAF can be incapable to response that volume of air flow.
They're studying ecu & I recognize it's a MUST to their
supercharged vehicles.
Leave ECU untouched bring lean in WOT mode.