Ted Baldwin

........my understanding and my experience is that they offer a one year 12,000 miles warranty on the blower and associated components. I am not sure if the one year warranty extends to your entire engine. However, after that one year you are on your own. Depending on your dealer, your MB drive train warranty is also gone. This is not always the case and does vary from dealer to dealer, but most MB dealers don't like aftermarket mods, so don't count on a sympathetic dealer.

.........I don't really know about the reliability of HPS, but you have to admit that the availability of a 4 year, 48,000 mile drive train warranty is a hard to ignore. The best thing will be Kleemann's products and workmanship plus HPS's warranty.......now that will be a quite a combo.

Ted

Chappy

I've still got till 2009 on my extended warranty. Till then, can I just borrow your beast? :p

AMG///Merc

And that I'm not the only one with warranty concerns. I'd like to know if the Kleeman warranty covers any of the drivetrain. I'm not too concerned about it being only one year because I believe that if there is going to be a catastrophic failure, it will most likely occur very early on...

I also agree that a well-engineered and well made product is more important than a warranty, but is there any real evidence that the HPS system comes up short in that regard? I recall someone at this forum being pretty unhappy with HPS, but if I recall correctly he was more dissatisfied because of a lack of power than any reliability issues. Am I correct about that, and have there been any reliability issues with HPS? I'd be satisfied with another 100hp, and my main concern is reliability. It's a real shame, as it really seems like one of HPS's salespeople has really done a signifigant amount of damage to their reputation. To be honest, all of this confusion and uncertainty is making me reconsider getting a supercharger. Unfortunately, there just aren't too many other options aside from forced induction. I don't like underdrive pullies, and Kleeman's full exhaust system deletes the primary cats. Anyone familiar with MKB's exhaust system? I see that they offer cams, and I'm assuming that they're probably Schricks, which I'm also assuming supplies Kleeman...

I guess the bottom line is whether or not it is possible to get another 60+/- naturally aspirated horsepower for about $10k?


Best rergards,
Matt


p.s.) Where is HPS in regards to this thread?

Cory @ Kleemann

Our competitors warranty is capped at $10K, meaning, they will only pay out damage up to $10K, no more. That's fine, except a new 5.5 V8 will run you about $32K from the dealer, which means you will be responsible for the other $22K, plus labor- great deal! Kleemann can offer aftermarket warranties anywhere from 1-7 years which are NOT capped-email me for details.

Fast55

So Cory, your basic warranty only covers the parts and labor for what you install, but you have in-house or aftermarket warranties for the whole drivetrain?

Cory @ Kleemann

Correct. The Basic KLEEMANN warranty covers all KLEEMANN components for one year, unlimited mileage. We can now also offer aftermarket warranties for the entire drivetrain/car as well.

nukblazi

Matt,

For 10k, you pull the motor, over bore it, get lighter and/or longer connecting rods, port match the heads, get a valve job, cams, headers and exhaust.

Though, if you are afraid of grease, and this is only your daily driver and you know nothing about cars. Buy the power and bragging rights from Kleemann.

Ted Baldwin

Correct. The Basic KLEEMANN warranty covers all KLEEMANN components for one year, unlimited mileage. We can now also offer aftermarket warranties for the entire drivetrain/car as well.

..........What are the terms of the aftermarket warranty..........meaning, how many years and for how many miles?

...........secondly, is this warranty only applicable to work done in Colorado? If not, then do your installers nationwide (such as Donnie in Atlanta) know about this warranty?

..............Thirdly, is is possible for someone who has a Kleemann car prior to 2005, but who's car underwent replacement of such parts in 2005........can such a person purchase the said aftermarket warranty, since essentially the car in question now has brand new Kleemann parts?

...........Lastly, even if someone has not had a replacement of defective or broken down parts, but has had a Kleemann car for a year or two, can the person purchase said aftermarket warranty, since Kleemann cars are expected to be reliable anyway? Thanks.

Ted

sideways60

Sorry to hijack this thread but I have a question that maybe Cory can answer (I have had no luck with Kleemann direct or in the UK).

Will Kleemann be coming to Australia? I only ask because HPS definately is. I will be doing a supercharger kit on my ML500 and just want to make sure I get the best product available.

Cheers

Cory @ Kleemann

That is a question for KLEEMANN World Headquarters- please email them at info@kleemann.dk.

Cory @ Kleemann

The warranty is available from 1 to 7 years- I need to verify mileage rules.

This warranty is NOT limited to installations performed at USA headquarters. I have informed Donnie about this warranty.

You may purchase the warranty regardless of when the KLEEMANN modifications were done, be it last week, or two years ago.

Fast55

There will be Kleeman and HPS vehicles at the GTG this weekend. Anybody with a Renntech setup?

AMG///Merc

But unfortunately, there's no way $10k will cover all of that work. Kleeman want $7500 for their exhaust system alone. From what I've heard, the Brabus 6.1 engine upgrade, (Bigger bore/stroked crank, cams) cost close to $30k. It's my understanding that MKB offer a complete exhaust system (Including headers), but I'm not sure how much it costs. I'm assuming that it's not as expensive as Kleemans', but I'm sure that it's still a pretty penny...

Unfortunately, it seems like there just aren't any inexpensive tuning options for the naturally aspirated AMG V8's. On a positive note, it seems that Kleeman has an available warranty package afterall, so that just may be the way to go. I wish that it cost less than $11000 plus installation, but at least you know that you're getting a really impressive item for the money...



Best regards...
Matt


p.s.) I'm not sure if a valve job is worth it. Most three-angle valve jobs don't last very long because of the comparatively soft valve seat material...

JamE55

Yes there will be 1 that i know of. It's a 211 setup! Why what'd you have in mind Brad? :p

Fast55

I was hoping to see a Renntech setup on a W210 or other V-8 N.A. Benz, like J. Camerons's 11.86 second E55.

JamE55

James Canons W210 is actually using a renntech S/C. But don't worry i'll soon be around that 1/4mi! :p

sideways60

Thanks for the link Cory. I have tried Kleemann world headquarters several times and have had no reply.

Ted Baldwin

Unfortunately, it seems like there just aren't any inexpensive tuning options for the naturally aspirated AMG V8's.

.........this is why this conspiracy of silence in favor of just one tuner is bad for prospective buyers. HPS has a s/c for AMG NA V8's for $6400. This is half the price of Kleemann's and you are able to purchase a 4 year/48000 mile drive train warranty. HPS has been banned from this forum, so they are no longer represented here. At the time they were banned, they probably deserbed it. But the world is not static. Things do change. A s/c is not a secret Pentagon project that only one company can learn how to do well.HPS now has a new generation s/c. I do not know first hand, the quality of their new s/c set up, but to say there is not a low cost option is not correct at this time. Competition is GOOOOOD!!! With more competition, the incredibly high prices of these things will drop, more people with get them and buyers will benefit from from the warranty and low price and tuners will benefit from the high the low volume. I am a total believer in this concept. Having one high priced tuner that everyone gravitates to is bad for everyone including the tuner because their is no pressure to improve, eliminate waste, offer warranty,cut prices and benefit from the resultant increased volume. Kleemann was happy with their one year/12000 mile warranty on the s/c components alone. While Kleemann's products are generally reliable, their have been problems and several people have suffered. Now they offer real warranty because the market place demands it and they too will benefit from the resultant increased volume. I do not believe in one tuner that is annoited by God even if the tuner is good. If this were true, then Kleemann itself would not have been able to break into the North American market because Brabus and Renntech were the annoited ones previously.

Ted

Fast55

Well Ted, Kleeman has started to offer the warranty not just because HPS has traditionally offered one, but I think, because the dealers are a tough bunch. Look at another thread where a member is being told that a K&N filter will void his warranty! That's just wrong. MB wants us to be passionate about our cars, to love our cars, just don't touch anything, and that's B.S. I've never owned a brand of vehicle that the dealers were so uptight when it comes to modifications. I've owned Porsche, Audi, Toyota, Honda, Chevy, Pontiac, VW, Dodge, and Lexus, and never had a problem, even with some serious mods. Adding the TRD supercharger to one Toyota was done and blessed by a local dealer, warranted the same as the rest of the vehicle! The HPS system is $7,500.00 and $1,500.00 install unless you have a discount available that I don't know about. Warranty might have several options, I haven't asked about that, but figure another $500.00. While that's still a lot of money, even the W211 guys aren't getting off cheap. They already have a blower, and the cost of anybody's stage whatever is pretty spendy.

Ted Baldwin

...........i don't think that Kleemann is offering a warranty because of HPS. I stated that the market now demands a warranty. Frankly, I actually don't think that Kleemann paid that much attention to HPS, and that probably explains why Kleemann did not offer their warranty sooner. My point is that, the market today demands a warranty. Some of the reasons are mentioned in your post. But it is not just because of the MB dealers. Other reasons include the fact that while s/c's from different tuners have been generally reliable, the s/c components themselves have on some occasions malfuntioned or been defective and people have been hurt financially. This does not mean that the tuners are at fault, but it has caused consumers to demand a warranty. As far as cost, the Kleemann s/c is $11,000 plus $2,000 for installation, plus the cost of the new warranty........either way, it is aboit twice the cost of HPS. I have actually never dealt with HPS, let alone received a discount. I just think all options should be discussed and made available to buyers. The price I quoted for HPs was based on their company info as stated below

The system will be available for all V8-powered Mercedes-Benz vehicles including C-, CL- CLK-, E-, G-, ML-, S-, SL- and SLK- Class models. Customers can expect power gains of up to 150 horsepower, with low-end torque gains to match. Pricing for the new systems will start at $6,995

...........That info can be found in this link:

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/foru...posts=8&fid=17

Ted

Fast55

Adam's post is a few months old. Some kits might be $6,995.00 to start, but for E430's and 55's, $7,500.00 as far as I know. I agree that Kleemann probably isn't responding to anything HPS does. Warranty is something that customers want (me included). I haven't heard of any failed components from the tuners except the water pumps on Kleemann and the loud fuel pump I had on the HPS Gen I system on my 430. Never heard anything bad about Renntech except the freakin' outrageous pricing. Choices are a good thing.

Ted Baldwin

I haven't heard of any failed components from the tuners except the water pumps on Kleemann and the loud fuel pump I had on the HPS Gen I system on my 430.

...........Actually there is an ML430 with a Kleemann s/c who's engine blew up. This is not to say that it was neccessarily Kleemann's fault. Under the previous rules of doing business, if his car had been driven for more than 12,oo miles post s/c, then he would have been out cold on his own.

........There is also a mem of this borad who had a s/c in his car and who's engine bleww up. I believe it was a W210E55. I am not sure what brand of s/c he had, but I believe it was also Kleemann. Again, this is not to say that Kleemann did anything wrong. The owner I believe had other mods as well.

........So although s/c's are pretty safe in MB engines, there have been problems. What I find very strange is the universal lack of info regarding these problems so that prospect buyers can make informed decisions. The water pump failures you mentioned was known by Kleemann long before many of the affected customers developed problems, but no bulletin or info or guidance or advice was ever released. Even as we speak today, no formal acknowledgement from Kleemann that the old generation water pumps were defective has been made. People are still driving around with the old water pumps who have no idea that there is a potential problem. Even more strange, people who's water pumps have failed kept mum about it. I too am guilty. It was only after my third water pump failur in the same car that I said anything. This is a diservice to prospective buyers.

Ted

Fast55

When you say "blew up", do you know the nature of the failure? Specifically, hole in a piston, rod out the side of the block, etc? Just blowing a head gasket is a lot different. What is the maximum boost made by an unmodified Kleemann system on a 55? The Gen II is 7 psi which I'm assuming is the same or less than the Kleemann or the Renntech, but I don't see this info on their sites?

Ted Baldwin

............the mistake here is that you keep thinking that I work for HPS or that I prefer their products. My opinion is that there different tuners with different products at different prices and I don't understand why we all talk about just one tuner. As far as engine blowing up, I am talking blowing a hole in the engine itself requiring engine replacement. Your suprise about this shows why such issues need to be discussed. Supercharging a car does have the potential for significant engine failure. So a prospective buyer needs to be either mentally prepared and a able to handle this possibility or get a warranty. There have been about 4 reports of W211 E55 engines blowing up........yes with holes in the engines requiring engine replacement. This too is a low boost s/c. As I understanding it, the A/F ratio not just the boost alone is related to engine safety and risk of detonation. Below is a link to one of the W211 engines that blew up. Imagine if mercedes does not have a warranty.
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...5+engine+blown

Ted

Fast55

Absolutely not Ted. If you did work for HPS, I doubt you would have a Kleemann system. I know the W211 cars are running 11.6 psi of boost according to the AMG info on the web. That is a huge, 60% increase over 7 psi. The Kompressor motors aren't the same block as the N.A. motors (so I'm told) but that's still a lot of boost for a street driven V-8 running on pump gas. While the Gen 1 was trouble free except the loud fuel pump that was replaced under warranty, my Gen II started out with a failed MAF (which could have been on it's way out already, we all know how common this failure is on W210's). They replaced it. Then I had the slightest pinging (way bad news), possibly due to the intercooler hose being kinked because of the location of the tank. They relocated the tank and during testing did not like how the car was shifting. They found an obscure code for the trans after scanning the car, and it went to the local dealer. They replaced a valve or sensor in the trans under factory warranty(don't have the receipt back yet). Since getting the car back, it seems to have lost a lot of power at low rpm, but I'm starting over on the adaptives for both the ECU and trans. So you can see, nothing is pain free. The risk will always be there, no matter which tuner you go with. That is why I think warranty coverage is so important. I'll have additional info on how my car is running. I've made it clear to HPS that I won't cover up the bad news or overstate any testing numbers, whatever happens. The best thing we can do, is report our experiences accurately for the other members.