valmomo69

What makes the R class stand out above it's competition (Buick Enclave, Audi Q7, etc) ?

AMGTTV8

A Buick is not a Mercedes' competition...

Q7 - different story...

Even there, the Q7 is geared at the GL more than it is at the R

JTReeves

[QUOTE=valmomo69;3917104]What makes the R class stand out above it's competition (Buick Enclave, Audi Q7, etc) ?[/QUOTE

Valmomo69,

I think your question is entirely valid. To me, the overall issue is value. We've owned our R500 since summer of '07. I've paid attention to GM's and Hyundai's products over the last two years and noticed that they are both selling vehicles with more usefulness - and reliability - than Mercedes.

For example, a Chevy/GMC "crossover" comes standard with a rearview camera. That is an option with R and not readily retrofitted by the dealer (mine said "not possible").

My rear hatch has been a problem since the beginning - either not latching or unlatching easily and not reliably repaired by the dealer on frequent attempts.

Those who want a Benz just because it is a Benz aren't necessarily getting "value" for our money. We're paying for the marque but not getting reliable engineering, in my opinion.

Compare the price of a comparably equipped GM or Hyundai vehicle to that of the R.

I welcome the response from other members of the forum.

JR

supernsx

I would say safety, workmanship, handling and performance.

I have a R500 that is very comparable to X5 (had one) and Q7 but the R is cheaper (after discount). Regarding Enclave and other "cross-over", I have driven some but the material used for those vehicles is just not good.

I also have my share of Japanese and Domestic vehicles but I don't know what to say but I prefer how the "European car" feel and handle.

AsianR350

JTReeves and supernxs,

Both of you are correct in each own way.
I am very happy with my R in terms of handling, performance and material.(So far so good, no major problem here)
I also have owned Japaneese and American vehices and have luck with them (no problem here because I took care of them and never get stranded on the road.)

aggst1

The fact that the R class was the first design of its type (crossover/wagon). After it was unveiled in 2005, most other companies came up with their own version. Of course this has been going on for decades as most other manufacturers (particularly Japanese and Korean) copy the Benz designs.

Another reason the R stands out is the three pointed star on the hood. It stands for quality, safety and over-engineering

R KLASSE

Heres my take. First I think and I know I'm going to jump classes with my comparables but these vehicles are the same idea as the R-Class. First off I think the R-Class is closer to the Ford Flex & new from Lincoln, MKT than the GM crossovers, as the Flex and Lincoln are both R-Class sized but low to the ground like a sedan as opposed to looking lifted for off-road type driving. The Q7 IMO is more SUV like a , touareg, Cayenne, X5 etc..

My wife and I have owned three prior Mercedes Products, pretty much all with flawless maintenance histories. We have personally never encountered a major servicing issue or had reliability problems with a Mercedes Benz product.We are drawn mostly to MB safety, styling & engineering. I like the way a Mercedes drives, it doesn't matter weather your driving a C-Class or an SL the dynamic is unmistakably awesome.

The overall design, subjective to some or most but is downright sexy to me especially in our barolo red. All the others in the R-Classes class, compromise styling for more features or bogus and sometimes redundant technology. example the Q7 is a hideous design but offers a lot of tech at a high price point. The Buick is the only of the larger GM crossovers I like, but the interior is a large disappointment. Lots of faux wood and cheap chrome galore. Many if not all of the R-Classes competition offer more standard and or available horsepower engines, but even with just 260hp the 3.5L in the R-Class feels the most refined and smooth. The GM V6's are still coarse feeling & sounding and feel like they belong in a 1986 Grand AM.

I think we will all agree that there is no second row this side of Rolls or Bentley that is more luxurious or accommodating than what comes in the R-Class. Heck the third row in the R-Class is more comfortable than the back seat in a Q7, X5, or the entire cabin of the GM Crossovers.

With all that said I don't find a "brand new" R-Class as much of a value in today's market but a CPO two year old one fully loaded for $30K was a lot of value to us. $30K doesn't even by you a nicely loaded GMC Terrain today.

mitaka

[QUOTE=JTReeves;3917622]Ok. This is another statement like why buy a mechanical Rolex if you can buy a trouble free timex for a fraction of the price. I cannot believe people are comparing MB to GM and Hyundai... again

AsianR350

[QUOTE=mitaka;3918760]+1. Well said.

rkao

I bet this type of comparison happens more often than we can imagine for car shoppers. Consumers view value differently regardless of the price level they shop in, and isn't it the availability of a wide range of choices one of the the key features that makes the market economy the preferred scheme?

I am a fan of Mercedes-Benz products, but I wouldn't automatically assume that these are the best vehicles for everyone and suit everyone's purposes.

R KLASSE

[quote=rkao;3918995] Exactly why the volume leader on the lot is the C-Class. We had one while I loved the sharp, precise handling and excellent feedback from that car there is so much more "value" in a comparably priced Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, or Toyota Camry. And all three of those cars optional V6 equipped cars will smoke the the top of the line C350 in a stop light race but that's not what sells any of those cars. They buy a C-Class because the star on the hood means something special to that buyer above all.

I agree, again why are we comparing GM cars with an MB? When we were looking for a larger car to raise and transport our growing family around in our list was narrow and these were the contenders. We never really concidered any domestic crossovers.

1) W211 E350 or E500 Wagon and a stretch E55 AMG Wagon (Wish-list): Almost impossible to find any of these in my area.

2) Wife really wanted a Volvo XC90: I didn't want to touch or have anything to do with Vovo reliability, I've personally never met a Volvo owner that hadn't had a nightmare repair story. Also the XC90 is a seriously aging product although still elegant by design.

3) 2006+ Honda Odyssey: Wife didn't want a "Van", I was brain washed by all the sheep that the Odyssey was the most reliable and best vehicle you could buy for your family. Then I read all the complaints regarding quality issues with the transmission on this vehicle and cylinder deactivation control. We drove three used 06+ Odyssey vans and they all shifted funny or didn't feel right, even drove a brand new one with 12 miles on it and still noticed the jerky transmission and mushy brakes.

mercdriver

When it comes to luxury diesel all wheel drives with 7 seats and all of that cargo and towing capacity, the competition is pretty scarce... or is that non-existent?

JTReeves

Value is an emotional concept. I must concede that, when I'm on the open highway cruising at 85+ mph, I love the ability to move quickly and with agility among the sleeping hoi polloi in their SUVs who block the left lane. When one of them won't overtake the vehicle in the right lane and maintains position just off that vehicle's left corner, I accelerate in the right lane with left tires on the dotted line. The sleeper will usually ease up a little, allowing me the room I need to move into the opening space - at speed! and to get past. I don't know whether an R350 would allow this or any other small displacement motor. The power/weight ratio of the V-8 - and the superb handling of the R chassis with summer or speed-rated winter tires, represents high value for me.

I'm not agressive, I'm assertive.

JR

WildWolf

My lease is up on my Q7. I just bought a preowned R500 to replace it. My wife really wanted the captains chairs in the second row and refused to get a minivan. We also looked at the Acadia (not in the same league), Yukon Denali/ Escalade (too truck like according to the wife) and the Navigator. Mercedes was the CLEAR winner here. The Audi was a nice truck aside from the radio controls (which I absolutely hate).

R KLASSE

Well with the V6 your not going to win any stop light challenges, that said I could tell you on the freeway there's more than enough to overtake and pass. Almost every MB product I've ever driven excels well at freeway speeds weather a 4-cyl or V12.

In all honesty, we testdrove an R500 about a day prior to getting our R350. The only time I could tell a difference between the V8 & V6 was when the hammer is really down but who drives a vehicle of this sort in that manner. Around town it would be tough to tell. I would have preferred a V8 but every single R500 we could find was a tan or beige color.

55wagon

I trade in my Q7 4.2 for a R63... totally different animal....

veppe

Now you have taken this wrong. The three pointed star tells you the jack take-up brackets are located at the both sides of the car and that the help comes from heaven

Seriously, I like MBs, but I also know they are not the best quality. That's why my wife has Toyota Sienna, so whenever MB fails, we can take Toyota Hmm.. was this now serious or not

aggst1

I have been driving MBs since 1996 and have been very happy with quality. All three vehicles I have owned seemed to have a few problems when brand new (fixed under warranty) and where trouble free for the duration. It is dangerously wrong to generalize so much and consider TOYOTAs reliable and the MBs not! If you want to compare you should compare specific models (even trim levels). It is totally wrong to compare a TOYOTA Sienna for example with a R class. Why? Because they are totally different vehicles. The Sienna (although a great van) does not have the number of complicated systems the R class has.

I am sick and tired hearing my neighbor telling me that his TOYOTA Corolla has never needed anything other than oil. Well what can go wrong with it? All it has is a 2.0 motor and ABS breaks. No complicated 4WD, no traction control, no electronic heat/air conditioning, no to a number of other systems. Don't get me wrong great car but not comparable. Are MBs over-complicated? Probably yes. Do they break down? of course. TOYOTA's do as well. Just watch your local news the past month to see the myth being busted! TOYOTAs break down people, get over it!

Quality is viewed differently by different individuals. If a driver of a $40K TOYOTA Avalon gets stuck with a $2000 repair bill, he gets upset but thinks that overall it has been a great car so he forgets about it. If the same happens to a $100,000 vehicle the owner is pissed off thinking they got ripped-off. People somehow think that because they paid so much up front they should be immune to problems. That's why the consumer reports scores are not so good for MBs.

avlis

It's frustrating talking about quality because "quality" is such a general term. For example, are we talking about quality of design, quality of materials, quality of workmanship (ie. fit and finish), durability, longevity, cost of ownership, resale? All of the above? None of the above? Some of the above? General statements like "Toyota's are high quality and Fords are not" doesn't cut it.

Now for my personal opinion(s): My wife and I have owned Fords, Isuzu, Hondas, VW, and Mercedes. Immediate family has also owned Subarus and Toyotas. I have a passion for quality of design. I work in machine design so it's hard for me to ignore. I'm also a "car guy" probably because automotive design and production combines many of the engineering disciplines I'm interested in (mechanical, electrical, computer, software, industrial, manufacturing) and also business strategy (marketing and customer service). So, in terms of quality *engineering*, the German brands win me over. Its in the details and usually you have to look under the hood, under the body, and in the "cracks" for it.

For example, Mercedes door hinges are cast metal. Honda, being a brand focused on economy, uses stamped sheet metal hinges in their doors.

My '02 C-class had plastic aerodynamic elements attached not only to the entire underbody but also the rear suspension arms and other places.

I had to remove almost the entire dashboard of that C-class to replace a $2 part that connected a motor to the tilt steering column. All I can say is, the parts under that dash and attached to the steering column were HEAVY DUTY. Unlike anything I've seen working on a Japanese car. It should be noted that I didn't break a single part while tearing apart that dashboard. If you've ever removed interior trim in a Honda, you know that's never the case.

I had a Honda Element and dented the hood on day 1 while pushing the hood closed with my two hands. Every panel was dented after 4 years. My '02 C-class had ZERO dings after 103,000 miles. And no, I wasn't any more careful where I parked it. Its just thicker metal.

Before selling the Honda at 60,000 miles, I had replaced the clutch master cylinder, rear brakes (including calipers), & rear shocks. That's more than I replaced on that '02 Class before selling it at 103,000 miles.

In my family, the German cars looked almost new after a good cleaning when they were 4-years-old. The Hondas looked 4-years-old. Interior plastics were scratched and worn. Carpet matted. Things coming loose.

I will say Japanese brands offer affordability without sacrificing dependability. And by dependability I'm talking about things like starting in the morning, not stalling out, not leaving the owner stranded, etc. Dependability is only one part of quality and, IMHO, the only part the Japanese brands have mastered. Its unfortunate the media equates dependability with quality.

aggst1

very well put

bzliteyear

I saw a new Enclave being shown at Costco today...$49k MSRP - and that was for a 2 wheel drive, LOL. Who would pay $50k for a GM product like that? Our $25k 2006 CPO R500 from 18 months ago will be serve us well until 7 yrs/100k miles and we're going to enjoy it even more knowing what the crazy "competition" is really not competition.
Patrick