faMBlyguy

I've been reading the forums on here and they've helped solidify my decision to buy an R-class for my growing family. I want a minivan size family, but do not want a minivan. I also don't like SUVs.

So I thought I'd start contributing to the content here by sharing my shopping/buying experience. With any luck I'll get some feedback on what I'm finding out there. I have a good four months to shop, so I am angling for a deal. So far, my strategy has been this:

1. Cast a big net. I've visited 3 Benz dealerships in the NY/NJ area, 3 used car places, seen 1 private seller, and made a dozen phone inquiries all up and down the eastern seaboard so far.

2. Looking to spend $22-$25K, and that's what I tell them. Most look at me like I'm OTR.

3. I will consider any year R350/R500; deep down, the options I want are:
(a) panoramic roof
(b) NON-black interior (in any other color, that MBTex feels fine, but the black version feels cheap)
(c) 4WD (this has become a point of confusion)
(d) <40k miles
(e) I'm indifferent to Nav, premium sound, wheel/tire upgrades, multi-disc CD players, etc, but I do appreciate all of those things.

4. I'm not financing.

5. I'm expecting to get a CPO '06 or a non-CPO '07 R350 for this price. Is that realistic?

So far I'm seeing initial prices between $26k (private party) and $38k (CPO).
- Private seller asking $26k for his '06. It has all the options including real leather, but has exterior dings and interior tears in the fabric.
- Used car dealer asking $27k for an '07. It also has all the options, but hinted of smoke and the panel around the climate controls was cracked. This car was sitting on the lot with a flat tire when I got there.
- Only one of the Benz dealerships seems interested in selling me a car. It has six R350s on the lot, including an '06 with a huge red juice stain in the carpet and after-market DVD player mounted in the ceiling. They also hinted they might be willing to part with the '07 they had listed at $32k for less than $30k.

The main question I have, besides am I in fact OTR? is about "4matic" vs. 4WD. I had heard that some R350s were made with 2WD, but one of the used car dealers told me ALL R350s are 4WD. He said the only distinction is some have 4matic, and others don't, but he couldn't really explain the difference between 4WD cars with 4matic and those without it. (He had the first non-4matic I've seen so far.)

I will continue to post my progress here for all posterity. If anyone's got any tips or clarifications, please share. Thanks.

aggst1

The used car dealer needs to educate himself. There is no difference between 4WD and 4MATIC. In fact 4MATIC means all wheel drive in the Mercedes Benz lingo. I believe MB made R350s with rear wheel drive but they were very few and mostly available in Southern states. Here is where you need to be careful however: Just because a car does not have the 4MATIC logo on the back does not mean that the car is RWD. For the 2006 model year MB was selling the 4MATICS without the decal, and decided mid year (for 2006 MY) to add it. This has resulted with about half of the 06s without the decal even though they are 4MATICs. My R500 is 4MATIC and has no decal in the back. They included it to all models since, and have read somewhere that they discontinued the RWD in 2008 or something like that.

As far as your search is concerned, I think you are being reasonable with your expectations. I would advise to go with a CPO car if you can negotiate one in your price range. Try to push the dealer closer to what you want to pay and see what happens. I personally would avoid used car dealers and only buy from a MB dealer. Last but not least, ask for detailed maintenance records. Hope this helps.

R KLASSE

Congrats on your search for the R-Class, it's a great vehicle. We love our CPO '08. Personally don't expect under $30K for a nice '08,'07. Only reason we got ours in that range because we financed and the dealer promised us stuff and had to bury money someplace. Our CPO 25K mile CPO '08 was listed for $43,XXX and we had the deal down to $37 ish ready to walk after haggling for so long when they screwed something up and had to bury about $7K in the deal. We got lucky. Even the roughest '06 R-classes were listed in a range from as high as $35-$28K but after seeing an '08+ next to an '07 & '06 I couldn't get over how much nicer the AMG styling looked better than the front on the '06. What I was told about the R's that don't have 4-Matic on the back was that MB started putting the 4-Matic on in states that mandate chain-control when it's snowing. That way the attendant monitoring chain control can easily tell your vehicle is AWD. Also Red Juice stain is a standard feature in this vehicle. My wife and I looked at more than 12 R-Classes before ours, only three didn't have mysterious Red or Pink juice stain on the rug after the second row. Our car was 9/10 condition, near perfect but does have a silver dollor sized red juice stain under the mat on the second row carpet. Remeber these are Mommy mobiles first, not enthusiast cars.

lkchris

Suggest you not be "indifferent" to tire upgrades, as the fact of the matter is that any deviation from OE is actually a downgrade you don't want. In fact, you should verify "MO" is molded into the sidewall of any tires you see ... or plan for tire replacement sooner than expected. This code indicates a Mercedes-approved original equipment tire.

Mercedes treats its customers pretty well and one of the good things is you have home computer access to the entire spare parts system. While in this system, you can enter a VIN # and see only the parts applicable to your vehicle, and more to the point you can produce a "datacard" that will list all equipment the particular car left the factory with (including 4Matic). A great "shopping tool" IMHO.

http://epc.startekinfo.com

jlbunting

We love our R350. For comparison we got a 2006 R350 [pano, nav, auto life gate, 4matic] with 60K miles in Oct 09 for $25,500. Found it through a dealer on cars.com. We live in LA.

faMBlyguy

Thanks for the feedback - the 4matic explanation here is the best I've heard. I also found that KBB and Edmunds show a 2WD option only for 2008 models. That clears that up.

R Klasse - Barolo Red... nice color! Haven't seen any of those yet. Mostly been Alpine Rain and Pewter.

lkchris - thanks for the tip on the tires. My indifference is just to the MB rim upgrades (18/19/20" vs 17") and the tires that go with them.

Status update: yesterday my wife called a dealership in MD and was accidentally transferred to the wholesale buyer, Larry. She may have talked him into selling us a car; hard to tell if the guy was serious. She also spoke with a dealership in Philly. When we told the guy what we wanted and our price target, he told her he likes an "educated customer."

Also, we followed up with the dealership that has several R-classes in stock. They say they took care of the juice stain. But with 50k miles and no pano, I'm not interested.

Looking forward to the Presidents Day Weekend Sales Events!

faMBlyguy

Was that CPO? BTW I used to live in Long Beach. Loved that town.

bigben320e

faMBlyguy, good luck on your search.

I must say that when I was comparing the 350 vs 500 I ended up with a R500. The power was much better on the R500.

I got mine for $35K, Barolo Red, with the options you see on my sig with a clear bra. The car was inspected by an MB dealership, no CPO, and only had 11K miles on it. It has been a wonderful experience, and my wife loves it (she drives it most of the time).

veppe

Some clarifications. Like faMBlyguy said, RWD came an option for 2008. I'm not sure if it was then discontinued or not but anyway all 2006-2007 are 4Matic. The confusion may come from the options list, because the buyer may have opted for "elimination of all-wheel drive 4 x 2 (for cross-country vehicles only)". I have understood this just means 4Matic badge removed from back. Mine has that but I'm 100% sure it's 4Matic (tested sometimes in practice).

If you want to see what are the options based on your VIN number, just go to
http://old.mbclub.ru/mb/vin/?lng=eng
type in the VIN of the car you are looking for and also check Full Version to get some more info. Then click Search and you'll get list of all option codes your car got from factory and explanation for each. Some of the codes are different in different MB models, and it's not always accurate, but it gives most of them right. E.g. I have CD changer in glove box but this page shows it's in trunk.

Benz-O-Rama

Any chance this dealer was Euro Motorcars-Germantown? And the Larry, was Larry Stringer?

I have all 4 of my MBs serviced at that dealer. I've tried to purchase 3 of my 4 there, and was unable to make a deal. They're very expensive at that particular dealership. But, I will say, that they usually carry the creme de la creme, of the auction/trade cars and charge a hefty premium for it.

Larry is a good guy. He's tried to put me in a few cars, but I'm the worst kind of consumer. An education one, and it appears that you are too.

If the car they have is on the lot, PM me the details and I'll go eyeball it and talk to Larry. I'm dropping my SL600 off there tomorrow, as a matter of fact.

If you're interested in a 2006 Saks 5th Ave edition R500 with 55K miles, let me know. I know it's doesn't meet your requirements as far as warranty, but it's got the very cool Alcantara/Leather seats with Aluminum/carbon fiber(eque) trim, instead of wood. Looks very similar to the R63 AMG interior, if you're familiar.

It's not officially for sale, but the wifey wants a Range Rover or Porsche Cayenne, so it'll be available.

All of the Saks R500's are optioned the exact same way with an MSRP of right near $70,000.00. They all look like this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/R500-...item1c103190e8

veppe

How do you see if it's Saks or not? I mean, I have mine looking exactly the same (e.g. one detail, it doesn't have automatic tailgate, like the one you linked), but I'm wondering how could I see if it's Saks edition or not. And actually, what makes Saks edition special from others? Just curious as I would like to know if mine is Saks edition or not

Benz-O-Rama

If it looks exactly like that one, it's a Saks car. They were the only ones available in that configuration. The Saks R500s don't have a power lift gate either, but they do have power rear quarter windows. The one linked above does not have a power lift gate.

If you purchased new, it's a line item on your window sticker. If you purchased used, you can call MBUSA, fax them your registration, and they'll mail you the datacard for your vehicle. Free of charge.

faMBlyguy

Presidents Day sale was a bust. It started when we ran across an ad posted on Autotrader.com listing an 07 CPO for $28k at our local Benz dealership. That's my kind of number, but we were a little torqued that our sales rep had not contacted about the new arrival before listing it on Autotrader. So we did the walk-in thing and were passed to a new rep, and it didn't take long for the previous guy to spot us and ask WTF. I told him I'd thought he'd given up on us - the last thing he told us was that he didn't have anything in our range, but here was something pretty damn close.

This is where things got interesting/weird. The sales staff were perplexed and a bit upset themselves. They claimed that Autotrader was automatically grabbing their purchase prices and posting them on the site, before the dealership had added in certification costs and whatever profit they want to build in. I can only conclude that either they were telling the truth and Autotrader is far more useful than I thought, or they were lying to me and they're complete idiots.

Has anyone ever heard of this??? It's the second time we've encountered this sort of thing. A week or two ago, we visited a used car lot that had several R-classes listed online at extremely competitive prices. When we showed up, they told us there was a mistake and those prices were way off; but they blamed it on "the internet girl" who must have been reading from the wrong column. I assumed they did it on purpose to get people in the door, but I have a harder time believing a Benz dealership would play that game.

Whatever the case, I suspect I've been removed from this place's "potential buyer" list.

faMBlyguy

Oh, and we just found a non-CPO '06 R350, <30k miles, priced at just under $25k, loaded with options I don't even care about (and the ones I do). It's at a non-Benz dealership out of the area, so I had a friend swing by and take a look. Clean carfax, looks/drives well. I had to negotiate over the phone, but I couldn't get him to budge from the list price at all. Perhaps I am unreasonably committed to not paying sticker price; but I also feel like if my first offer is accepted then I'm a sucker. Perhaps I'm looking a gift horse in the mouth.

veppe

Well, mine has power rear quarter windows and like said, no power lift gate. At looks exactly like that one you linked. Thanks for the tip, I'll go and check with the dealership or MBUSA

Oh, and sorry faMBlyguy, I didn't mean to steal your topic for my own interests! Sounds interesting how they don't stick with the price they have advertised... But I heard one funny story sometimes. It was about a small restaurant advertising "all pizzas $5 each". Guy went in and ordered a pizza, it was $9.99. WTF. "well, that's just an ad to get people in" said the manager. (this didn't happen in USA).

Anyway, good luck with your search! Hope you'll find very good one for reasonable price

jlbunting

It is non-CPO. I paid extra for a warranty. You never know what could break. What you found sounds like a good deal.

jlbunting

That dealer is totally messing with you. Bait and switch. Making it sound like the car is hard to get so they can keep the price high. Trust me, there sales people are the ones who update the websites and they know exactly what the price is.

My suggestion is, you find the car you want, walk into the dealer, tell them your in a hurry, tell them you want to give them XX price for the car, when they say no, give them a business card with your number and say when your ready to make a deal give me a call.

I did this at several dealerships and after 3 days (end of the month). The sales guy gave me a call and we made a deal.

The end of the month is a great time to buy a car. The dealer has to make their numbers. Also, go on ebay & autotrader to find out what the market price of your car would be. Start making offers based on the market price.

I am not exactly sure but $25 for an r350 seems about market with 40-60k miles. I would start making offers at $24k.

Also get your own financing through a credit union. This way you will have your own money and you don't need to worry about them screwing you on the interest rate and other fees.

Tell them you want to buy it for $24K and you have financing already. When they say no, give them your card and number, walk away. Do this a few times and you should get someone to bite.

This way they know you don't have to have the car and you have money to spend. I bet they will come back around $25k. Your Credit Union sends them a check, you pickup the car and your done.

Hope these tips help and good luck.

R KLASSE

I drove an '07 R500 back to back with an '08 R350 same roads, some winding country, some merging onto and accelerating on the freeway leading to long steep grade up the freeway and back. While I really appreciated the much meaner sound of the V8 in the R500 model the only time I could really tell a difference between the R350 & R500 was if I were going flat out which I never drive that way in the R anyway (Wife & Kid) are usually riding with me in that car. Around town, cruising and canyon carving they feel about the same to me. I had an '01 SL500 with the same V8 and I was never really impressed with it from an acceleration standpoint. Hard to believe but my wife and I lined the R129 SL500 & our W204 C300 up on a deserted back road one night on the way home and would you believe the C300 with only 228hp was on the R129 SL500's bumper? Not that anyone buys an R350 to race at traffic lights, but I would be damned if our R350 isn't quicker than our W204 was. Just food for thought.

faMBlyguy

jlbhunting - thanks for the pointers. I suspect you are right - the salesman actually fed me the line about "We're having a hard time finding these cars right now." I do already have my own financing set up, but sometimes it seems to work against me - the salesmen act like they can cut me a better deal if I agree to finance with them.

Time is on my side, though... I don't need this for a couple more months. I kind of appreciate that the dealerships are carrying the costs of my car while I wait. Every month it loses a little more value, and my money in the bank earns a little more interest.

I haven't test driven the R500, but the R350 has all the pick-up I need for carting tykes around... plus you can always kick it into "sport" mode. Actually, I haven't driven it enough to discern whether the "Comfort/Sport" modes make a difference or if it's just a gimmick.

aggst1

The Comfort/Standard setting is definetely NOT a gimmick. When in Comfort the transmission starts in 2nd gear and shifts earlier thus giving a smoother ride. I use this setting when I am hauling the family to grandma's for turkey dinner and stuff like that. The standard mode starts at 1st gear and upshifts at higher RPMs thus utilizing more of the torque produced by the motor. I use that setting pretty much every day.

The imnportant thing to remember is that the transmission is adaptive, so that it learns the drivers habits and shifts accordingly. If you drive it hard for 10-20 driving sessions then it will seem more aggressive than if you drive more normal.

boochi101

On R500, there is a distinct difference in Sport(Spirited?) and Comfort mode. Is "S" mode the car jumps forward starting after a stop and shifts very quickly to highr gears. I think the suspension also becomes tight in "S" mode.

I notice a slight shake when switching from "C" to "S" and vise-versa, not sure what's going on.

lkchris

The primary purpose of comfort mode is seen in the fact that in earlier years this was labeled "W" for winter. That is, it's great for winter driving where the 2nd-gear start will help avoid some wheelspin. The quicker upshifting and rev limiting will save some fuel, too.

But, there's nothing "magic" about this and it for sure does not make the engine run any differently. It's just 2nd gear start, with quicker upshifting and rpm limiting.

veppe

And this is just if you don't push the gas pedal down to the floor Push it hard down and the transmission works like in 'S' mode... and I think this is even said in the owner's manual if someone just reads it through

faMBlyguy

Just drove home in my "new" 2006 R350. Came with everything I wanted and then some: comfort package, Pano roof, Nav, power liftgate, Harmon Kardon sound, multi-disc CD changer, MP3 jack, 18" wheels, air suspension package (i.e., comfort/sport modes), single owner, clean Carfax. Now for the good news:

• 17,000 miles
• $21,699 (including dealer fees, but not including taxes)

This was a much better deal than I was expecting. I am stoked right now! 17k miles? I'm still having a hard time believing that odometer reading.

My wife found it at the Lexus dealer in Manhattan of all places. They actually had it listed for $23,900, which was right where we wanted the price to be. As I mentioned above, the car has everything we want and more, but my wife still had the nerve to talk them down.

There are some flaws, of course. Like the color is desert silver metallic - I'm not a fan. And the trunk carpet is speckled with these turquoise stains, like Diva Plavalaguna bled all over it. But when I look at this car I don't notice any of that. We and our kids are going to be comfortable and happy in this thing for years. I'm one happy camper!

Hopefully I can begin to contribute to other R-class discussions on this board!

mercdriver

Congratulations!