So Mercedes Can't Sell the R Class Because of Looks?
12-06-2011, 12:37 PM
#76
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2002 E320 4matic Wagon
You may be right about long term ownership, what year was your R? I know the forst few years were pretty bad. From what I have heard and read the 08 fixed a lot of things. I know that the mechanics at my MB have said that things improved a lot but MB definitely didn't launch that model as prpared as it should have been. I am a leaser so my sample size is kinda baseless when it comes to long term ownership!
The great grand daddy for sure lol! I loved that car, even in comparison tp the M3 of its era. When you think of it, those two vehicles were so groundbreaking and trend setting, to see two Bavarian marks go "racing" so to speak. I really enjoyed Top Gear when they compared those two with I think it was Ford Sierra Cosworth of that era, all three great trendsetters!
The great grand daddy for sure lol! I loved that car, even in comparison tp the M3 of its era. When you think of it, those two vehicles were so groundbreaking and trend setting, to see two Bavarian marks go "racing" so to speak. I really enjoyed Top Gear when they compared those two with I think it was Ford Sierra Cosworth of that era, all three great trendsetters!
Back when I had to the 2.3-16v I used to commute into NYC in the early mornings (read: on empty roads) at the same time as a guy who had that E30 M3. Boy did that make the 50 minute commute fun. It was like the DTM every morning!
One of these days I'm going to get MB Classic Center to (re)build one for me...
along with a 1975 240d!
Last edited by OldMBGuy; 12-06-2011 at 12:39 PM.
12-10-2011, 03:05 PM
#77
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The biggest the reason the R is NOT a minivan, the engine is longitudinal, all minivans whether all wheel drive or front drive have stupid transverse engine layout, meaning unsafe understeer handling and really difficult servicing on the rear bank of cylinders. Same goes for SUV's, no real suv has a transverse engine layout, it is not truck like at all nor a reliable long term setup.
I think the Chyrsler Pacifica was the first to take this shape, but it has nothing in common with the R unlike what most people think, it is just a minivan in disguise.
I cross shopped a used R class with new Subaru Forester (which is taller!), Mazda 5 and CX7, Chev Traverse, all minivans, BMW X5, VW Touareg, and many used vehicles aswell. The mercedes handles, and it is servicable. All the vehicles I drove that were transverse felt unsafe, they spin out the tires under aggressive throttle, badly understeer, swerve if you drop onto the shoulder of the highway. I bought a used R320 because it is safe to drive, I can get around any idiot driver on the shoulder if need be, it has the power I will ever require and fuel economy is fabulous.
Why can't they sell new R's? Cause they don't want to! I walked into 12 different Mercedes dealers accross eastern Ontario and most of Quebec, I saw 2 new ones on the lot in the space of 8 months looking, and neither dealer was willing to negotiate on price. I walk into any other car dealer in these times and yes, you can talk price, sometime ten of thousands. The rest were willing to order, but same deal no price talking. They make 10% plus options, I had a very honest chat with one salesman and yet not even $1000 discount was possible. That is why they cannot sell them, they are stuck in the past. They are made in the USA just like domestics that are offering 20-30% discount, they need to wake up if they want to sell some.
They are not unrelaible vehicles in the greater sense, complaints about how the transmission shifts is not a valid fault, it is it a chev, I love how mine slows down without needing to brake and you feel each downshift so you know exactly what gear your in, it is drivers kind of thing.
Dealers not able to fix the car is a bigger problem, don't fault the vehicle for poor techs. There is a reason they claim the auto industry is short on mechanics, cause that $100 labour rate does not reflect the wage and the working conditions are getting worse not better due to poor managment/unrealistic expectations/no soul.
People are not seeing the real reason they are called lemons...Touaregs and Q7's are lemons, changing diff and transmissions, control arms/balljoints, airbags, fittings rusting out for air suspension, those are lemons. They usually have three or four warning lights on the dash before the warranty is up (christmas tree?). I see mostly minor things that are unresolved bringing the ratings of the R class down, not major systems.
I think the Chyrsler Pacifica was the first to take this shape, but it has nothing in common with the R unlike what most people think, it is just a minivan in disguise.
I cross shopped a used R class with new Subaru Forester (which is taller!), Mazda 5 and CX7, Chev Traverse, all minivans, BMW X5, VW Touareg, and many used vehicles aswell. The mercedes handles, and it is servicable. All the vehicles I drove that were transverse felt unsafe, they spin out the tires under aggressive throttle, badly understeer, swerve if you drop onto the shoulder of the highway. I bought a used R320 because it is safe to drive, I can get around any idiot driver on the shoulder if need be, it has the power I will ever require and fuel economy is fabulous.
Why can't they sell new R's? Cause they don't want to! I walked into 12 different Mercedes dealers accross eastern Ontario and most of Quebec, I saw 2 new ones on the lot in the space of 8 months looking, and neither dealer was willing to negotiate on price. I walk into any other car dealer in these times and yes, you can talk price, sometime ten of thousands. The rest were willing to order, but same deal no price talking. They make 10% plus options, I had a very honest chat with one salesman and yet not even $1000 discount was possible. That is why they cannot sell them, they are stuck in the past. They are made in the USA just like domestics that are offering 20-30% discount, they need to wake up if they want to sell some.
They are not unrelaible vehicles in the greater sense, complaints about how the transmission shifts is not a valid fault, it is it a chev, I love how mine slows down without needing to brake and you feel each downshift so you know exactly what gear your in, it is drivers kind of thing.
Dealers not able to fix the car is a bigger problem, don't fault the vehicle for poor techs. There is a reason they claim the auto industry is short on mechanics, cause that $100 labour rate does not reflect the wage and the working conditions are getting worse not better due to poor managment/unrealistic expectations/no soul.
People are not seeing the real reason they are called lemons...Touaregs and Q7's are lemons, changing diff and transmissions, control arms/balljoints, airbags, fittings rusting out for air suspension, those are lemons. They usually have three or four warning lights on the dash before the warranty is up (christmas tree?). I see mostly minor things that are unresolved bringing the ratings of the R class down, not major systems.
I hope that you have better luck with yours than we did with ours, because major things did fail, early, often, and at great expense. And as I hope you never have to find out, very little on the car is easily serviceable.
12-12-2011, 01:43 PM
#78
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2008 R320 CDI, 2006 smart fortwo cabrio, 1983 240D, 1982 300SD, 1980 300SD
Yes, very much a diesel guy and into the older stuff. However getting passed unsafely or not being able to park at the ski hill when its -25 or colder not starting gets tiresome...that is why a modern diesel.
The R is very much servicable. It is layed out so the engine is easily accessbile, the transmission can be removed quickly, the oil pan is removable. BMW xdrive equipped has driveshaft passing through oil pan, not servicable...anything japanese is pretty much transvers layout, not servicable. Most modern vehicles are not laid out in a manor that you can replace stuff, this mercedes is pretty easy to work on. The engine bay is tight in certain areas, but you can see what your doing and have space in front of the engine to change belts etc. The glowplugs and injectors are easily changed. All the hardware is dipped/coated, meaning in 8-10 years every bolt comes out. Only the Germans do this, every other vehicle will have seized bolts, rusted out heads, etc. The suspension parts are not all alloy, balljoints can be replaced without hours of stress removing corrosion etc from dissimilar metals. All current VW/Audis have alloy intensive suspension and it is impossible to remove certain bolts after 5 years, must cut and take hours removing what is left. I work on all sorts of different vehicles, the Mercedes still has some things going for it...believe I considered many vehicles before arriving at the R class and was disappointed many times!
The R is very much servicable. It is layed out so the engine is easily accessbile, the transmission can be removed quickly, the oil pan is removable. BMW xdrive equipped has driveshaft passing through oil pan, not servicable...anything japanese is pretty much transvers layout, not servicable. Most modern vehicles are not laid out in a manor that you can replace stuff, this mercedes is pretty easy to work on. The engine bay is tight in certain areas, but you can see what your doing and have space in front of the engine to change belts etc. The glowplugs and injectors are easily changed. All the hardware is dipped/coated, meaning in 8-10 years every bolt comes out. Only the Germans do this, every other vehicle will have seized bolts, rusted out heads, etc. The suspension parts are not all alloy, balljoints can be replaced without hours of stress removing corrosion etc from dissimilar metals. All current VW/Audis have alloy intensive suspension and it is impossible to remove certain bolts after 5 years, must cut and take hours removing what is left. I work on all sorts of different vehicles, the Mercedes still has some things going for it...believe I considered many vehicles before arriving at the R class and was disappointed many times!
12-13-2011, 12:07 AM
#79
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The R is very much servicable. It is layed out so the engine is easily accessbile, the transmission can be removed quickly, the oil pan is removable...
...anything japanese is pretty much transvers layout, not servicable. Most modern vehicles are not laid out in a manor that you can replace stuff, this mercedes is pretty easy to work on. The engine bay is tight in certain areas, but you can see what your doing and have space in front of the engine to change belts etc. The glowplugs and injectors are easily changed...
...I work on all sorts of different vehicles, the Mercedes still has some things going for it...believe I considered many vehicles before arriving at the R class and was disappointed many times!
...anything japanese is pretty much transvers layout, not servicable. Most modern vehicles are not laid out in a manor that you can replace stuff, this mercedes is pretty easy to work on. The engine bay is tight in certain areas, but you can see what your doing and have space in front of the engine to change belts etc. The glowplugs and injectors are easily changed...
...I work on all sorts of different vehicles, the Mercedes still has some things going for it...believe I considered many vehicles before arriving at the R class and was disappointed many times!
Seriously, this is almost exactly the opposite of what all the mechanics who worked on ours (and there were quite a few) said.
My #1 Indy who has done great work on our MB cars for years and is the best known and respected MB Indy in the area started refusing to work on it, and I couldn't blame him.
12-13-2011, 10:06 AM
#80
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2011 GL450, '06 R500 traded, '08 ML350 sold
In my experience, the only reason any knowledgeable mechanic would refuse to work on my car would be because he feels he can make more money occupying his time doing something simple like brake jobs. After all the hourly rate he charges is the same for all jobs. Him refusing to work on my car would only prove to me his questionable business practices.
12-13-2011, 06:07 PM
#81
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In my experience, the only reason any knowledgeable mechanic would refuse to work on my car would be because he feels he can make more money occupying his time doing something simple like brake jobs. After all the hourly rate he charges is the same for all jobs. Him refusing to work on my car would only prove to me his questionable business practices.
12-15-2011, 09:02 PM
#82
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2008 R320 CDI, 2006 smart fortwo cabrio, 1983 240D, 1982 300SD, 1980 300SD
Cars that are complex tend to bite mechanics in the *** and take up a lot of time that cannot be charged to the customer...when they have other work that is easy to make time on they will take that work. These cars take patience and a "yearning" to want to learn, much like the smart fortwo.
