Handful of W126 questions...
04-23-2006, 10:27 PM
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Handful of W126 questions...
Hey everyone, I have a few questions about these cars... I am interested in the ~1991 300 and 350.... only the turbo diesel versions. First up, the engine. Between the 2.5L I5 and the 3.4L I6 which is better? What is the power/fuel economey ratio with each? any 0-60 or 1/4 mile times? I know the 2.5 will be less powerful, but is the increase (?) in fuel mileage enough to offset it, or vice versa? I know an I6 internal combustion engine is naturally balanced, I6's are a personal favorite of mine, but how do the two compare?
Also, between the 300D and the 350SD, besides the engine, are there any other changes to the car? and finally, what is the difference between the 350SD and the 350SDL? What are some of the better years to look at? I personally like the styling of the ~'91 the most. Anything to keep an eye out for, or make sure is ok before purchase?
What is the real world fuel mileage of these cars? The EPA tests I saw say ~22/~27, yet every time I hear of people talking about the cars they get 30-40mpg often. I know these cars are durable, so is mileage really a concern? I see alot of nice looking cars with 170k-200k on them... should that be a yellow flag or no? How about the transmissions on the cars?
Sorry for the load of questions, I have just been thinking about it for a few days... Thanks in advance
.
-Rick
Also, between the 300D and the 350SD, besides the engine, are there any other changes to the car? and finally, what is the difference between the 350SD and the 350SDL? What are some of the better years to look at? I personally like the styling of the ~'91 the most. Anything to keep an eye out for, or make sure is ok before purchase?
What is the real world fuel mileage of these cars? The EPA tests I saw say ~22/~27, yet every time I hear of people talking about the cars they get 30-40mpg often. I know these cars are durable, so is mileage really a concern? I see alot of nice looking cars with 170k-200k on them... should that be a yellow flag or no? How about the transmissions on the cars?
Sorry for the load of questions, I have just been thinking about it for a few days... Thanks in advance
.-Rick
04-24-2006, 10:34 AM
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1987 300SDL aka the "Money Pit"
Anyone who claims to get 30mpg-40mpg is lieing like crazy. Call them on their BS, and tell them to stuff their crap.
The W126 ran up until 1991, they got an update form the 86 model year with some different body cladding and a bunch of other stuff.
So form 1986-91 they all look the same outside. Interior wise 89-91 got an updated nicer interior.
They made a few with diesel engines during this period. They used the 603.961 or the 603.971, technicaly these are all W126.125 models.
They offered the 300SDL from 1986-87, this engine had the 603.961, or 3L 603. It is a turbo charged I6 and very durable. Just don't overheat it or you will crack the head if its an original casting. ($3k) The only made about 6,500 of these cars a year.
Then the diesel S was not offered until 1990 and also in 1991. Both of the models were either the 350SDL or the super rare only made 2,300 one year 350SD. The only difference being that the 350SD was the short wheel base version. The later 603 is more or less about the same as the early version excpet the bored it out to 3.5L. These engines have a very bad rep, they would bend a connecting rod without any warning. The only warning sign is high oil consumption. No one is quite sure why but one theory is that he block flex's. Figure $8k-$10k for a proper rebuild, or you could probably get a short block for $5k.
As with any W126 buy on condition, paying up front for a better example is a wise move. Personaly I would not consider a diesel car the values these days are way to high. You can buy a 420SEL for 1/3 of the money for a similer SDL.
For mileage figure low 20's around town and high 20's on the highway. If the car is in top shape and you drive like a grandpa you may break 30 once in awhile.
These paticular W126 models are pretty quick for diesels, figure 0-60 of about 11 seconds. 1/4 who runs a diesel W126 down the quarter? They move right along, especialy passing on the highway isn't an issue. However lots of cars are in poor tune now, a lot are dogs because of this.
If you want more power and are willing to spend their are ways to get 400+hp out of a 603. But it will require about $10k and lots of knowledge and know how on your part.
The W126 ran up until 1991, they got an update form the 86 model year with some different body cladding and a bunch of other stuff.
So form 1986-91 they all look the same outside. Interior wise 89-91 got an updated nicer interior.
They made a few with diesel engines during this period. They used the 603.961 or the 603.971, technicaly these are all W126.125 models.
They offered the 300SDL from 1986-87, this engine had the 603.961, or 3L 603. It is a turbo charged I6 and very durable. Just don't overheat it or you will crack the head if its an original casting. ($3k) The only made about 6,500 of these cars a year.
Then the diesel S was not offered until 1990 and also in 1991. Both of the models were either the 350SDL or the super rare only made 2,300 one year 350SD. The only difference being that the 350SD was the short wheel base version. The later 603 is more or less about the same as the early version excpet the bored it out to 3.5L. These engines have a very bad rep, they would bend a connecting rod without any warning. The only warning sign is high oil consumption. No one is quite sure why but one theory is that he block flex's. Figure $8k-$10k for a proper rebuild, or you could probably get a short block for $5k.
As with any W126 buy on condition, paying up front for a better example is a wise move. Personaly I would not consider a diesel car the values these days are way to high. You can buy a 420SEL for 1/3 of the money for a similer SDL.
For mileage figure low 20's around town and high 20's on the highway. If the car is in top shape and you drive like a grandpa you may break 30 once in awhile.
These paticular W126 models are pretty quick for diesels, figure 0-60 of about 11 seconds. 1/4 who runs a diesel W126 down the quarter? They move right along, especialy passing on the highway isn't an issue. However lots of cars are in poor tune now, a lot are dogs because of this.
If you want more power and are willing to spend their are ways to get 400+hp out of a 603. But it will require about $10k and lots of knowledge and know how on your part.
04-24-2006, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Hattaresguy
Anyone who claims to get 30mpg-40mpg is lieing like crazy. Call them on their BS, and tell them to stuff their crap.
The W126 ran up until 1991, they got an update form the 86 model year with some different body cladding and a bunch of other stuff.
So form 1986-91 they all look the same outside. Interior wise 89-91 got an updated nicer interior.
They made a few with diesel engines during this period. They used the 603.961 or the 603.971, technicaly these are all W126.125 models.
They offered the 300SDL from 1986-87, this engine had the 603.961, or 3L 603. It is a turbo charged I6 and very durable. Just don't overheat it or you will crack the head if its an original casting. ($3k) The only made about 6,500 of these cars a year.
Then the diesel S was not offered until 1990 and also in 1991. Both of the models were either the 350SDL or the super rare only made 2,300 one year 350SD. The only difference being that the 350SD was the short wheel base version. The later 603 is more or less about the same as the early version excpet the bored it out to 3.5L. These engines have a very bad rep, they would bend a connecting rod without any warning. The only warning sign is high oil consumption. No one is quite sure why but one theory is that he block flex's. Figure $8k-$10k for a proper rebuild, or you could probably get a short block for $5k.
As with any W126 buy on condition, paying up front for a better example is a wise move. Personaly I would not consider a diesel car the values these days are way to high. You can buy a 420SEL for 1/3 of the money for a similer SDL.
For mileage figure low 20's around town and high 20's on the highway. If the car is in top shape and you drive like a grandpa you may break 30 once in awhile.
These paticular W126 models are pretty quick for diesels, figure 0-60 of about 11 seconds. 1/4 who runs a diesel W126 down the quarter? They move right along, especialy passing on the highway isn't an issue. However lots of cars are in poor tune now, a lot are dogs because of this.
If you want more power and are willing to spend their are ways to get 400+hp out of a 603. But it will require about $10k and lots of knowledge and know how on your part.
The W126 ran up until 1991, they got an update form the 86 model year with some different body cladding and a bunch of other stuff.
So form 1986-91 they all look the same outside. Interior wise 89-91 got an updated nicer interior.
They made a few with diesel engines during this period. They used the 603.961 or the 603.971, technicaly these are all W126.125 models.
They offered the 300SDL from 1986-87, this engine had the 603.961, or 3L 603. It is a turbo charged I6 and very durable. Just don't overheat it or you will crack the head if its an original casting. ($3k) The only made about 6,500 of these cars a year.
Then the diesel S was not offered until 1990 and also in 1991. Both of the models were either the 350SDL or the super rare only made 2,300 one year 350SD. The only difference being that the 350SD was the short wheel base version. The later 603 is more or less about the same as the early version excpet the bored it out to 3.5L. These engines have a very bad rep, they would bend a connecting rod without any warning. The only warning sign is high oil consumption. No one is quite sure why but one theory is that he block flex's. Figure $8k-$10k for a proper rebuild, or you could probably get a short block for $5k.
As with any W126 buy on condition, paying up front for a better example is a wise move. Personaly I would not consider a diesel car the values these days are way to high. You can buy a 420SEL for 1/3 of the money for a similer SDL.
For mileage figure low 20's around town and high 20's on the highway. If the car is in top shape and you drive like a grandpa you may break 30 once in awhile.
These paticular W126 models are pretty quick for diesels, figure 0-60 of about 11 seconds. 1/4 who runs a diesel W126 down the quarter? They move right along, especialy passing on the highway isn't an issue. However lots of cars are in poor tune now, a lot are dogs because of this.
If you want more power and are willing to spend their are ways to get 400+hp out of a 603. But it will require about $10k and lots of knowledge and know how on your part.
I would be interested in a '90/'91.
That 3.5 bending rods, I was told it is from the EGR, it develpos carbon underneath, and chucks get broken off, sucked into the cylinder where they stay, and it causes the rod to slightly bend.... causing the piston to scuff the cylinder walls.... the engine will run fine it'll just have high oil consumption... I was told the way to clean it was to pull the EGR valve and clean out the carbon every 20k or so... But, my knowladge on Mercedes isn't that much...
Who would run a diesel W126 down the drag strip?..... People asked the same thing when I ran my stock '79 Cadillac DeVille several runs.... it was fun.
.Anyway, I just like the style of these cars alot, I figured $5,000 would get a nice 300D here in Florida, but I haven't really looked around. The main idea though, was that its a diesel, I like diesels, but I also like the higher MPG.
How are the running costs of these cars? I work at an auto parts store, we carry some stuff for it, but alot of stuff we didn't... which would be a dealer item. Even things like radiator hoses and whatnot. I remember awhile back on one of the clubs there was a thread about mileage on the Mercedes diesel cars.... lots were 300-400k and some up to 800k miles and such.
04-24-2006, 11:01 PM
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1987 300SDL aka the "Money Pit"
The EGR has nothing to do with the rods bending. The early 603's had egr's as well, I have heard of maybe one 603.961 that bent its rods, and that was a rare case. I think it hydrolocked actualy. On all 603 powered cars it is a simple task to permently block the egr, clean the tar out of the intake once and be done with it.
As far as parts most of them are cheap and easy to come by. I get 99% of my parts either from the online suppliers or the dealer. Dealer pricing isn't bad realy. Remember MB made a lot of W126's and except for the driveline they are all the same. Its just SDL specific driveline parts that are expensive.
Some parts for these cars are very expensive because these are low production models. Take the radiator for example $450+/- and Behr is the only company that makes it. Same with the oil cooler and cooler lines.($650 for both) Also for some reason the lower radiator hose is $90. Or the engine mounted vac pump thats $300. The old style can blow up and take the engine with it, make sure it has 4 screws in the cover. If the cover is smooth replace ASAP. Other stuff like brakes, suspension work, and trans rebuilds are pretty cheap.
As far as working on them they are cake, everything is ment to come apart. I can yank a trans in a little over an hour, super simple cars really. I love the way the 603 is layed out, room to get to everything.
Maintaince costs vary greatly. If you do most of the work yoruself as you should to own an old car like this figure $2k a year. Probably a lot more the first year.
If you can't do much yoruself, honestly buy a newer car. Lease payment on a new E350 are $579 a month, you can spend that no problem going to the shop for every little thing.
For a nice 300SDL figure at least $5k if you are lucky, I'd expect $6k-$8k in todays market. I would not part with my SDL for a penny less then $8k min, but its not for sale.
Pricing on 350SD/L's are nuts, think $10k+, cherrry examples fetch $15k no problem. You can get the exact same car but with a V8 in 420SEL trim, same condition and mileage for like $5k.
You can buy a lot of fuel for the difference.
As fuel prices climb expect the prices to as well. If I were W126 shopping today I'd buy a 420/560SEL.
Head over to Mercedesshop.com for hours of reading on these cars.
As far as the mileage claims, yeah some run well over 400k but they are pretty shot at that point. I wouldn't consider anything with more then 300k on it. The engines start to become pretty tired at that point, you will need to do things like timing chain, maybe a valve job. The front ends need rebuilds about every 200k. Trans seem to die around 200k-250k.
I'd be looking for something with under 200k miles , under 150k even better.
Good luck, they are fun cars to drive. I'll take my SDL to my grave!
As far as parts most of them are cheap and easy to come by. I get 99% of my parts either from the online suppliers or the dealer. Dealer pricing isn't bad realy. Remember MB made a lot of W126's and except for the driveline they are all the same. Its just SDL specific driveline parts that are expensive.
Some parts for these cars are very expensive because these are low production models. Take the radiator for example $450+/- and Behr is the only company that makes it. Same with the oil cooler and cooler lines.($650 for both) Also for some reason the lower radiator hose is $90. Or the engine mounted vac pump thats $300. The old style can blow up and take the engine with it, make sure it has 4 screws in the cover. If the cover is smooth replace ASAP. Other stuff like brakes, suspension work, and trans rebuilds are pretty cheap.
As far as working on them they are cake, everything is ment to come apart. I can yank a trans in a little over an hour, super simple cars really. I love the way the 603 is layed out, room to get to everything.
Maintaince costs vary greatly. If you do most of the work yoruself as you should to own an old car like this figure $2k a year. Probably a lot more the first year.
If you can't do much yoruself, honestly buy a newer car. Lease payment on a new E350 are $579 a month, you can spend that no problem going to the shop for every little thing.
For a nice 300SDL figure at least $5k if you are lucky, I'd expect $6k-$8k in todays market. I would not part with my SDL for a penny less then $8k min, but its not for sale.
Pricing on 350SD/L's are nuts, think $10k+, cherrry examples fetch $15k no problem. You can get the exact same car but with a V8 in 420SEL trim, same condition and mileage for like $5k.
You can buy a lot of fuel for the difference. As fuel prices climb expect the prices to as well. If I were W126 shopping today I'd buy a 420/560SEL.
Head over to Mercedesshop.com for hours of reading on these cars.
As far as the mileage claims, yeah some run well over 400k but they are pretty shot at that point. I wouldn't consider anything with more then 300k on it. The engines start to become pretty tired at that point, you will need to do things like timing chain, maybe a valve job. The front ends need rebuilds about every 200k. Trans seem to die around 200k-250k.
I'd be looking for something with under 200k miles , under 150k even better.
Good luck, they are fun cars to drive. I'll take my SDL to my grave!
04-24-2006, 11:21 PM
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I do all my own work on cars, so thats not really an issue.... you say they are quite easy to work on? Thats good.
Sorry for the ignorance, but what engine is the 603?
Also, how about the 300D, with the 2.5L I5 turbo diesel? are they pretty good too? I don't want the gasoline car, because well... it really woudln't be doing anything from where I am, I already have a V8 luxury car, I figured the diesel would be very fuel efficent (tho I guess not as much as I thought/heard) and my current car needs a paint job... I figure I could find a whole new (old) car in mint shape for a fair price... not getting rid of my current car, ever... but atleast retire her from daily driver status.
For the mileage, I would like under 150k.... Even if I got a 1991 300D with 150k on it, I would still be going backwords 2 years and adding 30k+ miles from my current car...
.... hmmm, lots to think about.... I'll keep an eye open for them, I honestly haven't seen any W126's for sale around here at all... I know they are too old for MB dealers as well as most used car dealers... plus, I try to avoids dealers when possible...
Sorry for the ignorance, but what engine is the 603?
Also, how about the 300D, with the 2.5L I5 turbo diesel? are they pretty good too? I don't want the gasoline car, because well... it really woudln't be doing anything from where I am, I already have a V8 luxury car, I figured the diesel would be very fuel efficent (tho I guess not as much as I thought/heard) and my current car needs a paint job... I figure I could find a whole new (old) car in mint shape for a fair price... not getting rid of my current car, ever... but atleast retire her from daily driver status.
For the mileage, I would like under 150k.... Even if I got a 1991 300D with 150k on it, I would still be going backwords 2 years and adding 30k+ miles from my current car...
.... hmmm, lots to think about.... I'll keep an eye open for them, I honestly haven't seen any W126's for sale around here at all... I know they are too old for MB dealers as well as most used car dealers... plus, I try to avoids dealers when possible...
04-26-2006, 11:35 PM
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1987 300SDL aka the "Money Pit"
The SDL is powered by the 603.XXX. 603 for short.
W126's are super simple to work on, very user freindly. If you are used to Japanese or American cars you are in for a treat.
The 300D you are talking about would be a W124 body car. They made those in the early 90's. The 2.5L engine you are talking about is a 602, pretty much a 603 with one cylinder cut off.(602 is an I5 vs the 603 thats an I6)
Those are very good cars, if you are interested in one of those also check out a 1994-95 E300D. Same car but with an updated look and a very durable NA 606.
If you want better mpg's look at one of those 300D's, both will return low to mid 30's on the highway.
All these cars you are looking at are pretty rare, so finding a good example will take a bit of work.
W126's are super simple to work on, very user freindly. If you are used to Japanese or American cars you are in for a treat.
The 300D you are talking about would be a W124 body car. They made those in the early 90's. The 2.5L engine you are talking about is a 602, pretty much a 603 with one cylinder cut off.(602 is an I5 vs the 603 thats an I6)
Those are very good cars, if you are interested in one of those also check out a 1994-95 E300D. Same car but with an updated look and a very durable NA 606.
If you want better mpg's look at one of those 300D's, both will return low to mid 30's on the highway.
All these cars you are looking at are pretty rare, so finding a good example will take a bit of work.
